Regifting 7.4.5

[adarkana]

Received a droll package in the mail yesterday & have been wondering whether to acknowledge its receipt.

I ended a volatile correspondence with the sender a few weeks ago (ceased responding to emails) because I saw no point in carrying on. The entertainment value had been high, but it's an unwinnable battle-of-the-sexes & certain waste of time.

So I asked what would be the most productive response to the package & received 7.4.5. Does this counsel, none at all? I'm specifically perplexed by line 5, since unlike line 4 (which in this context makes total sense) it seems to suggest considered action.

Resulting hexagram 47 does not surprise or worry me. I'm just trying to understand the reading, and resolve my conflicted feelings about how to best deal with this person.

 

[dancing white ferret]

I have a couple ideas here. I wonder if it is saying in line 4 it would not make sense to engage this person in confrontation since they are a superior enemy (like you said, they just won't drop it) and it is a waste of your time. But, in line 5, if they are invading you, and you have no choice but to deal with them, you can win the war if you behave with maturity and rally your troops in an orderly and strategic manner. I think it is saying, don't engage this person, but you put them in their place, but don't meet fire with fire here. In line 5, the young carry the corpses. This suggests to me an equally immature or reckless reaction will result in chaos and defeat. You just can't be as childish as this person! One to be proud you can't win! Hmmm... at first I thought it was saying withdrawal, so I voted do not act. Sorry, ignore that. But, I think it is saying you should. I think it is saying, "Hey, you withdrew, but now they are invading you. Nip it in the bud, but don't throw fuel on it." Good luck!

 

[adarkana]

Thank you for the analysis, it makes a lot of sense. *Not* acknowledging the gift feels as much like a gesture (given the emotionally high-strung nature of our relationship) as writing a note or email would, which is why I find this combination of lines confusing. Probably, I should have thrown the package in the trash unopened.

 

[Trojina]

I'd say it could mean put it to one side for a while, don't react immediately (7.4) but when you do respond (or not) don't automatically follow old patterns, don't hand control over to habitual ways of relating or dealing with it.

Not sure why theres a poll on this since its not like the more people agree on an interpretation the more right it is for you.

I think like DWF said its a call to be adult about it...but its a downer (47) ie you feel trapped by existing patterns and words just don't work anymore. I don't see any 'advice' to respond or not respond...just don't do the habitual old thing about it that keeps entrapping you and taking you to the same place

I think the poll is quite reductive...the answer is richer than any poll so I haven't voted since the categories are meaningless as far as I'm concerned...and you can't understand a reading just by popular opinion

 

[Trojina]

However its certainly an innovative idea...no one ever did a poll on a reading before

I reckon it could definatley catch on

 

[Trojina]

though I'm not sure thats a good idea

 

[arabella]

Absolutely agreeing with Trojan. A majority opinion doesn't matter in the least. It's a question of what resonates with you and the "poll" idea gives a whole different emphasis that I wouldn't trust at all.

 

[riurik]

hey... where is the "none of the above" option?

 

[dancing white ferret]

I found the poll intimidating. I usually just throw some ideas out there, and hope I get something right. I felt like I had to choose a definitive answer here though, and now that I look at it again I don't know..... I like Trojan's idea best. I vote no for polls....

 

[Trojina]

I found the poll intimidating. I usually just throw some ideas out there, and hope I get something right. I felt like I had to choose a definitive answer here though, and now that I look at it again I don't know..... I like Trojan's idea best. I vote no for polls....

Heh but I did vote for your avatar being the best in this thread http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=14064 see post 12 and Hilary said she liked the little ferret too.

 

[adarkana]

I impulsively reduced my question to poll form in hope of soliciting more opinions, not to form a personal course of action based on popular vote. Not realizing, once created, the addition of the poll would change the way the thread is presented under Shared Readings.

Still, having been on (and off) this board for several years, I know I often form theories about individual posts without adding an interpretive word & thought the poll format might make it less intimidating to do so. I do see now that the provided options are rather glib. The fact that I don't have very strong feelings about the situation that inspired the question (i.e., don't know what to do with the guy but desire no specific outcome) might have led me to take a too-irreverent approach.

The mini-debate about this got me thinking, though. Many of us have struggled at some point with seeming contradiction within the context of a given reading/hexagram, yet I've never found a translation that fundamentally helps resolve this. Some suggest methods of divination that eliminate pesky multiple moving lines, others advise focusing more on one line than others, etc. I have never been satisfied with any of these strategies, because I actually want as much information as I can get in response to every question. Yet I keep wondering whether some sort of systemic "crowdsourcing" approach to multiple moving lines wouldn't be helpful. Not definitive, or dogmatic--just helpful.

For example, if a majority of individuals on this board over time voted the meaning of 7.4.5 to be "do not act," but in a thread with plenty of discussion/other anecdotal posts, I think I'd enjoy seeing that in the archive. I think.

 

[arabella]

I impulsively reduced my question to poll form in hope of soliciting more opinions, not to form a personal course of action based on popular vote. Not realizing, once created, the addition of the poll would change the way the thread is presented under Shared Readings.

Still, having been on (and off) this board for several years, I know I often form theories about individual posts without adding an interpretive word & thought the poll format might make it less intimidating to do so. I do see now that the provided options are rather glib. The fact that I don't have very strong feelings about the situation that inspired the question (i.e., don't know what to do with the guy but desire no specific outcome) might have led me to take a too-irreverent approach.

The mini-debate about this got me thinking, though. Many of us have struggled at some point with seeming contradiction within the context of a given reading/hexagram, yet I've never found a translation that fundamentally helps resolve this. Some suggest methods of divination that eliminate pesky multiple moving lines, others advise focusing more on one line than others, etc. I have never been satisfied with any of these strategies, because I actually want as much information as I can get in response to every question. Yet I keep wondering whether some sort of systemic "crowdsourcing" approach to multiple moving lines wouldn't be helpful. Not definitive, or dogmatic--just helpful.

For example, if a majority of individuals on this board over time voted the meaning of 7.4.5 to be "do not act," but in a thread with plenty of discussion/other anecdotal posts, I think I'd enjoy seeing that in the archive. I think.

If you were dealing uniformly with Yi Ching sages, maybe a majority vote would make sense. Although I think that sages would uniformly be insulted to participate in any "yes, no, maybe" vote. And regardless of the variation in abilities here -- aren't you interested in the subtleties and your own resonance with what is said, not just a Yeah of Nay declaration? The purpose of the Shared Readings is primarily for you to grow in your own interpretation.

And particularly as you have a very wide range of expertise on the website what is any "majority" opinion telling you? Just that a predominance of contributors [some of whom have only a passing acquaintance with the Yi] think you should or shouldn't? I believe it is a bogus idea, in other words. There is no substitute for learning to read for yourself and developing that inner sense, the instinct, for what the Yi is saying to YOU personally. Because nobody knows nor has a relationship to the situation as you do.

If a random majority opinion on your casting would suffice [and that's really what you will get] then there is no need for a Yi Ching at all -- let's just vote on what you should do as well-intentioned acquaintances and forget divination. I think it would come out about the same.

 

[dancing white ferret]

Well I guess some polls are ok. Thank you! I'm so glad you two appreciate the picture. I searched far and wide for just the right photo. And there's more where that came from! They are such great animals, and I have a collection of ferret pics, some of pets and others just found on web. Very mercurial little creatures! The funniest pets I've ever had! They always make me smile, so I was hoping to share some of that with Clarity.

 

[Trojina]

Yes this forum needs ferrets I never met one but I kinda like them

 

[adarkana]

The only previous post I could find on Clarity for 7.4.5

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=5541

To quote:

=======================================
ok seriously is free energy possible 07.4.5

I believe nothing will ever be free
but my friend says there is hope in the 5th line
yes yes , wisdom in the long battle

Steve
=======================================

I have seen any number of "how can hexagram 7 apply to a relationship" threads & wondered the same thing myself, often. So I am trying to find some dispassionate way to understand a dispassionate reading. About someone for whom I have charged feelings, but with whom I cannot directly engage.

 

[Trojina]

The one thing you don't seem to have done is to directly engage yourself withthe imagery in the translation. The translation being the actual words of the Yi Jing which here in th elines are about 7.4 "the army camps on th left, no mistake" and 7.5 "The fields have game, fruitful to speakof capture etc et" (thats from Hilarys book).

All the commentaries are just what people say about lines and aren't the same thing as the I Ching...they are useful but they don't help you as the translation is like a poem, it could mean a million things depending on your situation. So sometimes its best to ignore what others say and first see if you yourself can directly connect to the imagery in the Army

An example I've used alot is like one time having had blood tests for a blood disorder i consulted and got 9.4 "bad blood departs" Theres lots of commentaries with all kinds of ideas about what this might mean and theres everything everyone ever said about it here but do you think for me at that moment there was a more direct answer than 'bad blood leaves" for me in that particular situation ? Did anyone ever write 9.4 means if you have a blood test it will fine because anything bad blood has gone (except me)


Having said that 7.5 is a heck of a line to try to relate to via its imagery but its worth a try generally.

So it could be that with all the hard work scouting about to find meaning outside of you the meaning is actually nowhere else but within you and what that imagery means to you

You have had a couple of interpretations in this thread anyway but the rest probably may down to you. Keeping the reading and the imagery in mind as the days go by, letting it seep in to your sunconsconscious can be a better way to come to understanding than thinking someone elses 7.4.5>47 will tell you what exactly it means for you.

We all scout about for other peoples meanings and it helps of course but in the end you are on your own with your cast, its tailor made for you and your situation


IOW whilst digging about the forum for insights...you may be missing the other direct route to finding meaning which is digging about withthe imagery, just you and it. The answer can't be tracked down 'out there'


Noticed you referenced 'crowd sourcing' in an earlier post...but to quote Mr Sparhawk , roughly, 'The I Ching is not a team sport' so no I don't see that crowd sourcing helps, crowds of people agreeing doesn't generally mean something is right anyway.......but in Change Circle there is a wikiwing where everyone throws in thier experiences of a line which is a kind of 'crowd sourcing' I guess

 

[adarkana]

More in a quoting mode:

============================================
From The Complete I Ching (Alfred Huang)

7.4: The yielding line at the fourth place is not central. To be yielding & not central indicates a situation where there is no chance of winning a conflict. The yin element at a yin place also suggests that one at this place knows her own limitation. She leads the multitude in retreat. When one knows that a conflict cannot be won, retreat is the wisest strategy. It conserves strength for the final victory...

7.5: [...] In dealing with conflict she is not aggressive. She takes only defensive action. The Duke of Zhou uses the analogy of birds trespassing on a field to indicate that someone has invaded her territory. Her defensive action has a just ground. There is no fault...

============================================
The I Ching Made Easy (Roderic + Amy Sorrell)

7.4: This is not the time to move forward. A strategic retreat is needed to stay away from trouble. An adjustment or detour is taken in order to preserve the overall plan.

7.5: You now have the opportunity to take decisive action. Give each person the task best suited to them. Always know what is going on. Stop when you reach a reasonable goal.

============================================
Brian Walker's I Ching (St. Martin's Press)

7.4: When inferiors are at work in us or in others, it is wise to disengage & retreat. No victory can be won until detachment & equanimity are restored.

7.5: Evil has come back into the open. To correct it, withdraw into stillness & contemplate proper principles. Lashing out will only compound the misfortune.

============================================
A Guide to the I Ching (Carol K. Anthony)

7.4: On being confronted by the inferior element in others, or with a situation that arouses our emotions and pressures us to act, we should retreat. Retreat is a disciplined disengagement from all emotional response into neutrality & acceptance of the situation as it is. Disengagement must proceed step-by-step in a determined way, so that we do not change direction or allow ourselves to become further involved. Thus, our army retreats.

7.5: The evil element has come out into the open to attack (either in ourselves or in others). We must punish this element by firmly withdrawing & steadfastly going on our way. Once the evil element has given way, we should let go of the matter & punish no more. To take up new issues or go further now would lead to defeat. In any case we should not hold to grievances for more than a short time. To do so means that we put the person into a mental prison. As it is said in The Wanderer (Hex. 56) "penalties... should be quickly passing matters," and "prisons ought to be places where people are lodged only temporarily, as guests are. They must not become dwelling places."
============================================

Typing these out was useful--I no longer perceive the lines to be in conflict.

 

[Trojina]

oops i see you are already in CC or were

 

[hopex]

7 always implies to me being tactical - sometimes it is best to leave doors open
even though its a little depressing as a response - things fizzle out 47

 

[adarkana]

I decided to take 7.4.5 to mean, stay the course of inaction. Which I continued to do, following the arrival of a second package earlier this week.

Just this afternoon I received an email from him, which I am absolutely dying to answer. On this I'm counseled 52.4. This seems much less ambiguous to me than 7.4.5 but much harder to follow in practice. The way my Huang translation puts it: "One in this place is able to keep free from taking reckless action. He knows how to remain still in his heart."

I wish my heart knew this.

 

[adarkana]

One last note on this very dead topic. I did not respond to the packages & emails (which were directed to my home/personal addresses) but did eventually receive a "surprise" call at my office. I guess he Googledialed.

In the course of our awkward talk, he declared I had driven him (by lack of response) to a measure he considered personally extreme--using a phone to communicate. I had at an earlier point supplied him my private cell number, which he declined to ever use, so for me this use of my professional profile read as both an invasion & a "feint".

I am posting this follow-up because whether in retreat or attack, 7.4.5 is now better annotated in my own notebook & may add something here.