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Relationship of hexagrams and its component trigrams

bostonian

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Hi

I was wondering if we should use the component trigrams when trying to interpret a hexagram or just look at the hexagram itself.

Specifically, my question arises with the hex: Preponderance of the great. This seems to portend a cataclysmic event where the weight of the house will cause it to fall in on itself. On the other hand, the two trigrams (THE JOYOUS, LAKE and
THE GENTLE, WIND, WOOD) seem much gentler and propitious to my mind. So should i consider them as part of my answer from the oracle or just use hex 28 when trying to interpret the meaning?

By the way, in all my questions about this situation, i very often get one of the three "greats" hex. 26, 28 and 34. Are these three in any way related? Or is the word "great" in all three just a translation issue?

thanks
 

Sparhawk

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Are these three in any way related? Or is the word "great" in all three just a translation issue?

thanks

Nope, all three hexagram names carry the character 大, which means "great," among other similar meanings.
 

Sparhawk

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I've been mulling over your question, sometimes scratching my head... :D My advise is that you use what makes sense to you at the time of your consultation. In the matter of the trigrams, consider all the rich exegesis that is attached to them and why they are constantly named, even when questioning their worthiness in interpreting hexagrams. IMO, all is useful.
 

hilary

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Do consider the trigrams - but in relationship to one another, just as they are in the hexagram. The Image section talks about this and suggests clues, but you can also think just in general about what happens to trees when water covers them.
 
M

meng

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Lake is the youngest daughter, the emotional and social one. Living with her involves lots of ups and downs.

I can't buy that Wind, eldest daughter, is always gentle. Penetrating, shaping, defeating, reforming, is more fitting, imo.
 

bradford

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Hi I was wondering if we should use the component trigrams when trying to interpret a hexagram or just look at the hexagram itself.

The part of the Yi that looks at the hexagram in terms of its constituent trigrams is the Da Xiang, the Overall or Great Image. For me it's the most insightful part of the text, but you may have to meditate on many of them awhile before you really get it.
There are also two pages you might try in my Dimensions chapter, Volume 2, under Ban Xiang. This will help you to understand how to use them, Upper and Lower are treated somewhat differently in interpretation. See also the section on Hu Gua for the nuclear trigrams.
 

elvis

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* In the traditional sequence hexagram 28 pairs with hexagram 27.

In this pair the focus is on consequences of excess, be it an excess of being empty (27) or an excess of being full (28).

EXCESS:

27 : excess - through too little, too empty, needs filling, hungering; 27 hungering comes from a context described by hexagram 02 - devoting, trusting others, dualmindedness

28 : excess - through too much, to full, needs emptying; 28 exceeding comes from a context described by hexagram 01 - singlemindedness, trust in self

The development of a hexagram is from bottom to top. It is also from general to particular and so covers levels of refinement in meaning.

The first level of a holistic meaning (rather than partial) is in the form of the base trigram where it sets a generic context from which the remainder develops.

The pattern of three lines generating a holistic meaning is repeatable such that the top trigram represents meaning BUT in a more refined position and emergent from the bottom context. The combination of these meanings give us the whole hexagram meaning.

The process of meaning derivation is recursive, we apply yang/yin a line at a time and so move from 1 to 64 meanings.

Other work on recursion shows us a property of such where the mindless, mechanistic, building of lines suddenly transforms into an organic nature where all of the classes of meanings can be used literally and figuratively to form a language - as such at the hexagram level we can get the I Ching to describe itself by reference to itself.

For hex 28 we have wind in the lower where the association is with cultivation and lake in the upper where the association is of intensity in expression (lake in lower is self-reflection, in upper it is refine/doubled)

This reads "with/from cultivation comes intensity in expression"

Hex 28 covers (a) the negative side of excess and (b) the positive side - the latter covering going the extra distance for someone/something.

The NEGATIVE side is grounded in the context trigram and its association to the emotion of anticipation of wrong, the positive side is grounded in the anticipation of right (i.e. cultivation).

At the level of the hexagram we suddenly have access to ALL of the other hexagrams as sources of analogy in describing the properties and methods of this class of meaning and so generic properties and methods of the instance associated with the class. See the table in:

http://www.emotionaliching.com/lofting/bx011110.html
 

tuckchang

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Usually according to the denomination and the text of a hexagram, every hexagram has its designated character and performance etc which can be presented by its constituent trigrams, for instance, the internal trigram exhibits its instinct and the external trigram, its disposition; the internal trigram represents its talent and the external trigram, its performance;………. The internal trigram also symbolizes the thing-in-itself and the external trigram is the environment. From the viewpoint of the social ranking and the time space, the bottom trigram represents those below and the upper trigram, those above; the bottom trigram is the beginning and start, and the upper trigram, the ending; the bottom trigram is the cause and the upper trigram, the effect;……….

The following are quoted partially from Confucius’s commentary on the hexagram text (Tuan Zhuan 彖傳) for reference:

Hex 28: Da Guo (literally interpreted as: large excess); the large one (the masculine line) is excessive (i.e. to exceed the feminine line). The beam being bent (its image), the beginning and the end (i.e. lines 1 and 6 are all the feminine line) are weak. Rigidity (the masculine line) is excessive but moderate (as lines 2 and 5 occupy the middle position of the bottom and the upper trigram, the line of which possesses the principle of moderation); Xun (the bottom trigram which is the symbolism of devoutness, obedience and humility, as it is one feminine line prostrated beneath two masculine line, suggesting the inner cultivation of Hex 28) and joyous action (the upper trigram Dui which suggests its performance); it is instrumental in going somewhere; it turns into smooth progress.

Hex 26: Da Chu (literally interpreted as: large storage or great restraint); rigidity and perseverance (i.e. the characters of the bottom trigram Qian which is a masculine trigram, i.e. the large one), staidness and reliability (the characters of the upper trigram Gen which is also a masculine trigram, i.e. the large one), (reciprocally) radiate and upgrade their virtue daily. Rigidity (i.e. line 6, the masculine line) staying above and the virtuous person being respected (Usually position 6 refers to an honored position but without any title, power, responsibility or obligation. The rigid line 6 staying above the tender line 5, the king, is a scene of the king sustaining and respecting the virtuous person), (as well as) being capable of restraining (the upper trigram Gen which disciplines and makes a reservoir of) perseverance (the bottom trigram Qian) are great righteousness. It is auspicious not to eat in (i.e. not to eat alone), (signifying) to raise the virtuous person. It is instrumental in crossing the great river due to (its) correlation with the sky (i.e. it is instrumental in undertaking a great mission, as line 5, the host line of Hex 26, correlates with line 2, the representative line of Qian: the sky.). Remarks: the true significance of Da Chu is the large one (or the one above, i.e. the external trigram Gen) storing up the large one (or the one below, i.e. the internal trigram Qian) as well as restraining it in order to make it stronger.

Hex 34: Da Zhuang (literally interpreted as: largeness and strength), the large one (the masculine line) is strong. Rigidity (the bottom or internal trigram Qian) is (applied or accrued) with movement (the upper or external trigram Zhen), therefore it is strong. Da Zhuang, and it is advantageous (or appropriate) to persist (in righteousness); the one large must be righteous (otherwise it would become arrogant and belligerent like the male goat).

Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com
 

elvis

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Cognitively, more so neurologically, none of it matters other than (a) the movement from general to particular and (b) the use of any dichotomy where its elements reflect the characteristics of differentiating/integrating (aka yang/yin).

IOW we can make-up our own dichotomies and as long as the hierarchy is maintained (and so we satisfy (a) ) and the dichotomy form is kept (we satisfy (b)) we will ALWAYS get the same generic classes of meanings that are customised in the I Ching into the form of digrams, trigrams, hexagrams, dodecagrams.

Interpretations are then open to:

(1) single line (6 per hex)
(2) diagrams (3 per hex)
(3) trigrams (2 per hex)
(4) hexagrams
(5) dodecagrams (compressed into hexagrams with changing lines)

The general to particular mapping gives us qualitative differences for each line and covers such relationships as:

1-4
2-5
3-6

1-6
2-5
3-4

Then comes digrams covering pairs of adjacent lines, trigrams and so on.

At the hexagram level we see emerge the use of logic operators allowing us to derive a language of the I Ching where the whole set can describe each element of that set through use of analogy.

The general to particular means the lines above are always operating WITHIN the context set below. Thus, for example, The EIC starts with the question of facts or values. The QUALITATIVE nature of these elements map to yangness or yinness and reflect the foundation of meaning where the decision immediately removes 32 hexagrams from further consideration. The QUALITATIVE nature of the second question covers the same generic yangness/yinness but now slightly more specific and so on.

The focus on TRIGRAMS allows us to generate two sets of meanings but the top always created within the context set by the bottom. (you can also play with rotations and so negations, build the top top-down onto the bottom done bottom-up to cover conflict etc where the evolution of each trigram is blocked by the other. This also gets into hexagram rotations covering general to particular vs particular to general creation patterns.
 

fkegan

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Hi Bostonian,

Hi

I was wondering if we should use the component trigrams when trying to interpret a hexagram or just look at the hexagram itself.

Specifically, my question arises with the hex: Preponderance of the great. This seems to portend a cataclysmic event where the weight of the house will cause it to fall in on itself. On the other hand, the two trigrams (THE JOYOUS, LAKE and
THE GENTLE, WIND, WOOD) seem much gentler and propitious to my mind. So should i consider them as part of my answer from the oracle or just use hex 28 when trying to interpret the meaning?

By the way, in all my questions about this situation, i very often get one of the three "greats" hex. 26, 28 and 34. Are these three in any way related? Or is the word "great" in all three just a translation issue?

thanks

Hi Bostonian,

Each hexagram has its own meaning by its complete line structure (and number position in the King Wen Sequence). It also has various internal details of trigrams, line pairs, lines that are also useful for interpretation. In answering YOUR specific question, you have an entire oracle to interpret with a hexagram either with or without moving lines and a tendency to move toward a resultant hexagram (either the same if no moving lines or different with moving lines and then either moving through various hexagrams to get there).

Trying to find the best meaning for your Oracle is always a challenge--made more difficult in emotional times which are often signaled by hex 28 in divination.

Hex 28 does not guarantee catastrophic collapse, it indicates a situation overall of too much energy inside wanting to be expressed and insufficient support from others or attention to the overall process beyond your own intense feelings and passions.

Focusing upon details, whether the words in your translation of commentary or the trigrams in a hexagram, is a matter of advanced study and generally difficult when you are worrying about the emotional issues involved in your personal questions put to Yi Oracle divination.

In terms of trigrams hex 28 indicates a lake over wood or rain so heavy it is flooding the treetops. The trigrams may sound gentle put they can also have difficult imagery as well in a hexagram.

Overall, the 3 hexagrams with "Great" in their names refer to hexagrams having 4 Yang lines and at least 3 of them together giving an impression of lots of concerted energy or process. The name of the hexagram reflects this 'great' accent upon the Yang power. In hex 28 it lacks direction or support, in 26 it is being interfered with within and in hex 34 it has an open channel.


Frank
 
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