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Repeated 64

clarissa

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Hi Jesed,

Yes, x and y ARE fairly mutually exclusive. In fact, I think someone spoke of leaving the western bank...and heading toward the eastern bank. Well, this idea of being in the middle of the stream fits very well...even literally almost...with my situation. I've definitely left the 'western bank' (which could be seen as x) and I'm carefully wading across the river at the moment. When I asked "What do I need to know about y?" I was getting impatient with how things were going...wanting what I wanted right then and now. The Yi's first 64 response was...64, no changing lines. I guess that was a bit like shouting 'Hold your horses!' at me.

Anyway, I think I understand 64 a bit better now.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Clarissa

Glad I could help a little bit with my "'unhelpful' or 'misleading' or 'stretched' comments on 64" (Chris dixit)

Just kidding...
paperbag.gif


Now. talking serious: my best wishes for you... I'm sure you will get "unwet" to the easter edge
 

lightofdarkness

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Clarissa wrote:

"Well, this idea of being in the middle of the stream fits very well...even literally almost...with my situation."

Then 64 is not describing things - 11 is where the focus is on harmonising/balancing and so in a state of mediating - see the ideogram description:

T'AI : spread and reach everywhere, permeate, diffuse; communicate; great, extensive, abundant, prosperous; smooth, slippery; extreme, extravagant, prodigal. Mount T'AI in eastern China was a sacred mountain connecting heaven and earth. The emperor made offerings there to establish harmony between humans and the great spirits. The ideogram: person in water, connected to the universal medium."ERANOS p186

The overall focus is on a mediating position and so being in the middle of x/y. Qualitative associations of x and y allow for the 'earth/heaven', push/pull association and being in the middle.

the other 'mediating' state is more of neutralising than harmonising and it is represented by hexagram 12.

If you wish to keep to the 64 perspective then the 11-ness of 64 is described by analogy to hexagram 30 - IOW in a context of 'incompleteness' harmonising/balancing is expressed in the form of guidance/direction-seeking. IOW we focus on some 'point' to reach and in doing so harmonise/balance-out with the current bias of being temporarily 'pointless'.

All of that said, if you got 64 by 'random' methods then there is no guarantee that 64 is the 'best fit' for the situation.

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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To complete the pattern - the 12-ness (and so alternative mediating state focused on protection) of 64 is described by analogy to 29 with a focus on containment/control.

IOW in a context of 64, neutralising is expressed in the form of water issues (aka contractive bounding issues - keep things in/out) - IOW you cannot express 12 directly in this context, its expression will be skewed and 'look like' characteristics of 29. (all due to the context
'pushing' and so biasing expressions)

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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The recognised expression 12 in this context of 64 is in fact the distorted expression of 29. IOW if the focus is on asserting containment/control in this context, then it will appear in the form of characteristics of 12 - of neutralising etc. Thus to assert containment/control focus on asserting aspects of 12.

The nature of 64, its emphasis on 'mis-sequencing' or 'delaying closure' or 'incompleteness' etc will distort the expression of any other archetypal form operating in its context.
 
P

peace

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This what I found:

Crossing the great water means getting past a period that is dangerous to our perseverance.

Receiving this hexagram indicates that we have not achieved true inner quiet, therefore, we are posed to act.

We have come to a conclusion without first attaining the correct perspective - a dangerous situation (K'an). We must seek the correct viewpoint - one which is not tainted by a single emotion.

Clarity (Li) gives us the strength needed to overcome the dangers threatening perseverance and is the "vehicle of crossing" mentioned in the 2nd line. Before we can attain clarity it is necessary to attain true inner quiet; only then can we become attuned to our inner voice; only then can the correct view show.
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In an earlier thread someone asked about "disciplines of the Devil's country".

Here it says we must resist the luxury of taking the lead, demonstrating our personality or indulging our wants.

It goes on to talk about our PERSEVERANCE as the key to this hexagram - and not to let the ego steer us off course because of our desires.

So Clarissa - I think it's saying not to lose your way and stay on course and not to get distracted and sidetracked by fear, desire or what other people tell you. It's about clarity and perseverance.

Rosalie
 

lightofdarkness

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Using the I Ching as our guide, the focus on perseverence is a response to the qualities of the hexagram. IOW traditional IC comments are not just about the hex but about how to respond to it.

Move into the universal IC position and we focus on basic structures. Of note here is the relationship of the hexagram PAIRS of 40,64 vs 37,63. These pairs reflect the sharing of the same space other than the top line. We can flesh these out by then focusing on their opposites nature through the pairing of 40,37 and 63,64.

40 and 37 cover the generic concept of tension release; 40 through a focus on issues of relaxation of structure, 37 through a focus on issues of rigidity of structure.

OTOH 63 and 64 cover SEQUENCE, steps, rather than overall structures.

IOW as 40 focuses on the (sudden) relaxing of structure that allows for tension release so its 'mate', 64, focuses on a relaxing of sequence. IOW in both there is a 'casualness' involved that can come with consequences - the fox does cross but gets its tail wet in doing so since it did not follow the 'correct' steps to complete; even if it did get across its method was 'slack' and as such a cause for possible suffering.

In 40 the casualness is expressed in the after-effects of a summer storm where the storm 'breaks' the tension of the heat prior to that storm - things become more relaxed, mellow, laid-back as a consequence of the release.

OTOH with 37 we focus on imposition of a rigid structure with the analogy to the form of family/clan/corporation/nation. Here everyone knows their place and there is no competition within (first son is a first son, mother is a mother etc etc). This same focus on 'correct place' is present in 63 as a focus on 'correct sequencing' - the focus is on the correct steps from beginning to end not the particular qualities of "beginning" or "ending". (and there is the sense of never-beginning/never-ending in that the correct steps are eternal)

The sense of 'correctness' in 63 is reflected in the traditional material with the focus on hex 63 being a model for the yin/yang qualities of the line positions - 1,4,5 are yang, 2,4,6 are yin and this maps out to hexagram 63 reflecting this notion of 'correct sequence' and so of 'rigidity'. With this rigidity comes negatives in the form of being too correct, too quickly; following an algorithm that lacks contact to local context.

With 64 we have a positive aspect in the form of avoiding closure, making the steps 'flexible' intentionally to allow for unexpected events that may help in our eventual 'completion'.

Given this 64 context and so a bias to a push of 'mis-sequencing' so the focus on persevering - you may make 'little errors' but perseverence (a quality associated with keep going, keep 'stepping') allows for the translation of 64 into 63. (in the path of 63 to 64 so as one keeps getting it 'right' there will come a time when an 'error' is made)

We can then add to these pairs their '27-ness' pairs - 53/54 for 63/64 (and so a generic sense of issues with 'maturity') and 38/39 for 40/37.

Chris.
 

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