Rhetorical question. Answer: 45

[bruce_g]

I was freewheeling with the Yi, and posed a bit of a trick question. Of course I knew Yi would know it was a trick question, and would take that into account, but not in a negative way. I was genuinely curious how it might answer.

The question had to do with any and all of life's pleasures and trappings (yes, I see them as one). I posed the question thusly:

Is it better to indulge or renounce? 45

I posted this here because I'm not seeking an interpretation for myself, more for general discussion on it.

What do you see?

 

[Sparhawk]

Well, if one of the undercurrents of the question is sex, 45 may be saying: "hey, dude, don't skip the orgy!"


L

 

[lindsay]

Hexagram 45 doesn't surprise me. I've found the Yi to be relentlessly anti-individualistic. I think the Yi often makes this point: our lives only make sense in the context of others. Man is a social animal. Asking whether to indulge or renounce - what impact is that choice going to have on your relationships and commitments? Those are the things that really matter.

 

[dobro p]

Is it better to indulge or renounce? 45

What do you see?

I see: "It's better to 45."

What's that saying about 'a pleasure shared is a pleasure doubled', or something like that? Don't drink alone.

And perhaps a renunciation shared is a renunciation with a powerful purpose. Don't fast alone.

In other words, it isn't better to indulge or renounce - it depends on the situation and who's involved and what your needs are at the moment. But whichever one is required, YOU are someone who would benefit by doing it in a group, with a purpose in mind.

 

[willowfox]

Well, hex 45 is saying that it is far better to party and enjoy one's life but not to overdo do it. To do the partying in moderation.

 

[Trojina]

Think I agree with Dobro and Lindsay.

I think purpose is central here - why is one renouncing, why is one indulging. Renouncing can be used in service of the good or just plain mean self denial. Indulging can be greedy or it can be an appreciation and celebration of the bounty of life. How it fits into the wider context is the main thing.

Funny I noted a few threads ago I thought 45 came up often when people asked 'life path' questions - 45 comes up often IMO with general 'how to handle being human' questions and here it is again !

 

[frank_r]

Is it better to indulge or renounce? 45

What do you see?

How more open you are in your heart, how better the mirror will work. And then you know what you are still missing to get real contact with the other.

Then you also know when to indulge or to renounce. On what point you are really together with somebody.

And Luis when that's sex than it's sex.

 

[bruce_g]

Interesting thoughts and responses. I got a good chuckle from Trojan's 'how to handle being human'. Also interesting is the tendency to think of 45 exclusively in human terms. No doubt it can refer to humans gathering, but that is only one specific application of a much larger principle.

What I get from the answer 45 is: reap what you sow. A clever answer to a tricky question; it is amoral, objective and impersonal.

Yesterday I noticed that the Banana Yuccu plant, which grows in front of the house, had a green fruit growing. View attachment 256 I've been researching to see if the fruit is edible or toxic. It appears to be quite edible when prepared in various ways. It also has medicinal purposes, including containing a steroid. It's also a powerful laxative. So - if I gather this fruit unto myself (pick and ingest it), I will reap the benefit and the toxicity, both.

Also, doing the research on this fruit, rather than just taking a bite of it, is 'renewing or storing weapons to meet the unknown or unseen'. Arming myself with knowledge and understanding.

 

[bruce_g]

How is this any different from sex? drugs? and/or rock n roll .

 

[heylise]

I think gathering is not just gathering, it is gathering around you what belongs specifically to you. Like the planets are the solar system of our sun, the group of friends the surrounding of a person, the congregation the solar system of a church. Every part of what is gathered around you has its own specific meaning and place.

Renouncing and indulging sounds very much like gravitational and repulsive forces of planets. Or maybe repulsive is just the 'swing', the speed, which wants to make it travel into space. You have to find the right balance between the two, so every planet stays in its orbit. Or maybe the balance between the two decides what stays planet, what flies off into space or what falls on your head.

"Which is better, indulging or renouncing"... "45, balance, make your own solar system"
Great answer
LiSe

 

[martin]

What I hear in 45 is something like 'enjoy (top trigram) what the earth (bottom trigram) gives you'.
Or 'enjoy the fruits (and flowers) of the earth'.

And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth."
(Genesis)

Sounds much like hex 45, isn't it?


Other ideas:
Hex 45 is similar to a neptune (earth) - venus (lake) aspect in astrology. The ethereal or 'supernatural' and the natural, the sensual meet.
Perhaps this indicates that for spiritual purposes there is no need for renunciation because - to use conventional religious terms - 'God is in nature', we can perceive the ethereal through our senses, at least if we are open, receptive, sensitive (earth trigram again).
This is not 'indulgence' though. When we are indulgent our consciousness narrows down. We are not entirely open and receptive. And not subtle enough.

Makes sense?

 

[bruce_g]

Yep!

They all make sense from different contextual fields.

 

[nicky_p]

Hiya Bruce,

I see 45 as indulging - gather it all and revel! If it was renounce I'd expect something like 33. But does that say more about me or yi? lol

 

[bruce_g]

Hi Nicky,

That's one of the things I like about presenting this sort of question: it reflects the individual's own current life and psyche. Transfer this natural tendency over to interpreting readings for others, and we have many pictures or individual views of the same thing, each reflecting the interpreter's current reality. Of course there's always some objectivity involved, but how much is really objective is questionable.

 

[Tohpol]

I was freewheeling with the Yi, and posed a bit of a trick question. Of course I knew Yi would know it was a trick question, and would take that into account, but not in a negative way. I was genuinely curious how it might answer.
The question had to do with any and all of life's pleasures and trappings (yes, I see them as one). I posed the question thusly:
Is it better to indulge or renounce? 45
I posted this here because I'm not seeking an interpretation for myself, more for general discussion on it.
What do you see?

Actually, I just did a reading not a few hours ago and received 45.4 It was regarding work again, asking if I should remain "humble" and not to try and take on too much.

Seems like a fitting answer. In my own context Bruce, it has always referred to integration and "gathering together" those emotional parts of myself that have been thrown into disarray by recent events. This often pairs together with 62.

Generally this hex for me is a signpost towards inclusivity; to begin to really nourish and find your true nature so, I guess a form of balanced indulgence is the key. When we do make progress in realising this, we naturally attract those which vibrate to the same "essence."

45 caused me problems in the beginning due to a lack of understanding but I like it now. It gives me hope.

Topal

 

[rosada]

45."....To bring great offerings creates good fortune."
I see 45.as a talk on the purposes of sacrifice. Seems to me to be saying that sacrifice -aka. renouncing? - has it's benefits. Does it explain why?

 

[bruce_g]

45."....To bring great offerings creates good fortune."
I see 45.as a talk on the purposes of sacrifice. Seems to me to be saying that sacrifice -aka. renouncing? - has it's benefits. Does it explain why?

Well now, that's what I'm talkin' about! The whole kit-n-caboodle gathers. The discrimination process goes to work to determine priorities. Every indulgence brings with it renunciation of something else. And renunciation brings with it another indulgence. It's all the process of gathering. It's all Maya.

 

[august moon]

As an experiment, I posed the same question, and I got 7.3.6 -> 18. How do you folks analyze that?

 

[philippa]

As an experiment, I posed the same question, and I got 7.3.6 -> 18. How do you folks analyze that?

I think this is brilliant and not far off from what's been said on this thread (line 3 vs. line 6 strikes me as the two different perspectives). The curious thing is with the resulting hex.

As per Brad a while back, 18 is like this stale wind trapped (a fart waiting to get out but couldn't? eeeewwwwwwww). If 18 were the primary hex, I would leaning towards interpreting the renouncing as "unhealthy" but since 18 is the resulting hex, I wonder if this is a message that we should look harder what is being "renounced/indulged".

 

[nicky_p]

45."....To bring great offerings creates good fortune."
I see 45.as a talk on the purposes of sacrifice. Seems to me to be saying that sacrifice -aka. renouncing? - has it's benefits. Does it explain why?

I took a look at Brian Browne Walker. He has fo 45:

To lead others toward the good,
one must purify one's own character.

Would anyone else see purification as renounciation? But I do wonder how that fits in with 'gathering together'?

 

[bruce_g]

Would anyone else see purification as renounciation? But I do wonder how that fits in with 'gathering together'?

Yes, but then there's the problem of renunciation of the purification. The darn stuff continues to gather - even if you throw it away it comes back. Gathering leads to dispersion, dispersion leads to gathering. And on and on.

 

[bruce_g]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)