...life can be translucent

Menu

Sam Reifler I Ching - "A new interpretation for modern times" (1974)

willow

visitor
Joined
Aug 16, 1970
Messages
258
Reaction score
6
Is there any discussion of this version anywhere? Just discovered it in a box of old books.
 
Y

yellowblue

Guest
Hi Willow,

I just recently purchased this book...

Reifler's interpretation did seem a little "canned" at first, but it does seem to have some grounds in every day common sense stuff that can kinda bring you back down to earth. Not a lot of lateral movement and I tend to agree with Steve's critique. But still it does give a basic focus and I've added or subtracted as needed. So for me it's been helpful.

Deb
 

cal val

visitor
Joined
Apr 30, 1971
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
19
My copy of Sam Reifler's book is very old and falling apart. I carry it in my Kermit the Frog carryall to work with me.

I use it for emergency readings...like sticky situations that suddenly come up at work. Otherwise, if I throw the coins at lunch or something for any other reason, I'll look at the Reifler book, but I still refer to the W/B version and/or Brad Hatcher's notes and/or Steve Marshall's book and/or Chris Lofting's site and/or some other interpretations when I get home. That's if I've never had an experience with the line.

Just like any other book of interpretation, there's a lot of hits and some misses.

Love,

Val
 

gene

visitor
Joined
May 3, 1971
Messages
2,140
Reaction score
88
If I threw the coins at work, I wouldn't be just looking at a book, I would be getting looked at, in a very disheartening way, and after being looked at, the paddy wagons would probably shortly follow.

ha ha,
Gene
 

cal val

visitor
Joined
Apr 30, 1971
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
19
Gene...

Even if you threw them when no one else was around? I'm alone at work about 90% of the time now. I run my facility. And it's just about all the way wound down now. Everyone is gone except me, and this is my last week... so...

*grin*

Love,

Val

PS... I never thought about throwing coins in the presence of anyone before, Gene... especially co-workers. What a novel thought.
 

willow

visitor
Joined
Aug 16, 1970
Messages
258
Reaction score
6
Thanks.

Val: funny, I took it to work too, for the "emergency readings" book. Even though it may be a little off sometimes on it's interpretation, each one is practical and grounding. An "emergency reading" is such an opportunity to space out that a little extra grounding seems just right.

Gene: Bag-o-marbles. That's the way to handle readings at work. And, if it's likely you'll find yourself interrupted, also practice developing a relaxed form of concentration that can gently accept the arising of distractions and intrusions without needing to resist.
 

cal val

visitor
Joined
Apr 30, 1971
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
19
Willow...

I'd like to learn more about casting with marbles. Is there a site online that explains how to do it?

I gave Gene's concept of casting in the presence of others a lot of thought today. I'd love to try it... though I'd probably be more focused on observing the reaction of others than the question... and answering their questions than having my own answered. And I just wonder how much having an "audience" or distractions would influence the answer.

Have you had anyone observe you and ask questions about the process?

Love,

Val
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I'd like to learn more about casting with marbles. Is there a site online that explains how to do it?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, duh!
happy.gif

Go to my blog In the right column you will find a link to the Method of 64. It uses marbles.

L
 

lenardthefast

visitor
Joined
Jan 18, 1971
Messages
410
Reaction score
1
I was just reading this post and I thought, how strange, people here actually are AFRAID of casting the Yi in a public place??? I have been casting the Yi publicly for about 7-10 years; on trains, in parks, at school, at work, on the Amtrak, in a church(just kidding), but everywhere else, and I have yet to receive any reaction from others stronger than mild interest in what I was doing. I have actually picked up a few lovely ladies, inadvertantly, of course, by casting the Yi in public. Its a great ice-breaker! Am I doing something wrong??? I see lots of little old ladies counting prayer beads and no one pays any attention to them. I am perplexed.

Oh, and I am NOT being facetious here, folks.

Namaste,
Leonard
 

cal val

visitor
Joined
Apr 30, 1971
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
19
Luis...

Thanks! Okay, I like it. I can't imagine carrying around a bag of 64 marbles though. 64 small beads sure... or 16 marbles. hmmmm.

I have a lot more faith in mind over matter I think than the author does and the odds I believe ideally should be irrelevant, so I'd be fine with 16 marbles. But I want to try both ways. I'm eager to observe whether odds really do change things in terms of accuracy of reading.

What are your thoughts on the impact of odds on a reading?

Love,

Val
 

frandoch

visitor
Joined
Oct 22, 1971
Messages
151
Reaction score
1
Val,

The 16 counter method:

Take 16 marbles in four different colours - say 1 red, 3 yellow, 5 green and 7 blue.

Red Moving Yin
Yellow Moving Yang
Green Static Yang
Blue Static Yin

Place the marbles in a dish or bag. Stir them around and select one - that's the bottom line. Return the marble to the dish/bag. Repeat 5 more times to form the Hexagram.

This procedure will give probabilities of changing lines similar to using the Yarrow stalks, but as I've explained elsewhere, the Laws of Probability do not apply for single events such as casting a hexagram. If we accept that the Yi knows, then I don't think it matters which method we use.

Michael F.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Hi Val,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

What are your thoughts on the impact of odds on a reading?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO, the short answer is: NONE. I don't think odds have anything to do with the answers you obtain from the Yi.

Regarding methods, is all a matter of personal taste as to which one to use. My cup of tea, for example, is the yarrow method and a quiet place. I cannot remember the last time I used coins or the Method of 64. But, alas, I don't nudge the Yi too often either. Only when I really feel I cannot find an answer by myself on some important issue at hand.

L
 
C

candid

Guest
Luis,

How can the law of odds have nothing to do with how we obtain answers from the Yi? It is a random act and phenomenon isn't it? Do you believe there is an intervening hand that bypasses the odds? Witness how a one armed bandit in Vegas will hit 3,4,5 times in a row, and then not hit again for a year. What are the odds? Are the gods that determine their wins and losses any different from those that determine ours? We're just playing a different game with arguably higher stakes.

C
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Candid,

1. nope
2. nope
3. yes
4. Stacked against him. See 3
5. Gods? That must be a typo for Odds. In that case see 3
6. yes

Wow, six questions with six answers that for me make up a neat hexagram: 33, Dun, Retreat. Beware of errand thoughts...
happy.gif



L
 

willow

visitor
Joined
Aug 16, 1970
Messages
258
Reaction score
6
Yes, I use a smallish cloth bag with 16 marbles in it, 4 colors, as Frandoch shows. The marbles are the same size and quality, just different colors. (I first got the proportions from counting the marbles in the bowl on Hilary's Flash Reading page.) In my case they came from a bunch of those marbles you put in the bottom of a vase to hold the flowers.

Both the ease of creating a reading and the in-public parts seem to affect my relationship to the oracle, but not the quality of the readings. More on that later. I hope today, but maybe not until next week.

Hmmm. Question Readings! Perhaps a combination of Dharma's nature readings and CL's method. Is that 5th line changing?
 
C

candid

Guest
Luis, I appreciate your thoughts. Mine differ. As much as anything is random: chance is chance, odds are odds. I don't believe the Ching violates or sidesteps the laws of nature.

C
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I don't believe the Ching violates or sidesteps the laws of nature.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't either. Perhaps the real difference of opinions lays in our views of 'nature'. I believe in chaos theory for example, something that to my western mind brings some logical comfort on the workings of the Yi. I also lean heavily on Hilary's quarter that our thoughts affect the fabric of nature and events.

L
 
C

candid

Guest
Luis,

Yes, I can see that. Mind does or can affect matter, true. Therein may lie the difference between a gambler hoping to win and a seeker open to learn.

C
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Candid,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Therein may lie the difference between a gambler hoping to win and a seeker open to learn.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

See, we are not so different after all...
happy.gif


L
 

willow

visitor
Joined
Aug 16, 1970
Messages
258
Reaction score
6
>Therein may lie the difference between a gambler hoping to win and a seeker open to learn.

I can see it now: KACHING...The wheels spin...faster, then slower, a blur of lemons and cherries and dollar signs...one drops into place: "#4"...another: "#4"...another: "#4"... It's an UN-JACKPOT! Youthful Folly!
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Willow,

4, 4, and 4 sounds like a great omen to me. With so much unknowing, just think how exciting the future can be!

C
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
"But, alas, I don't nudge the Yi too often either. Only when I really feel I cannot find an answer by myself on some important issue at hand."

I don't nudge the Yi too often either. Just once a day, every day. Muslims pray five times a day. If you can reach for God five times a day, you can consult the Yi five times a day - it stands to reason. For me, anyway. I see the two activities as roughly parallel. They both reach beyond what we know to a higher/deeper pattern.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Muslims pray five times a day. If you can reach for God five times a day, you can consult the Yi five times a day<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why I'm such a bad Catholic...
biggrin.gif


I don't see anything bad with consulting the Yi as many times as you want. It's there. It won't say no - maybe - and you don't need an appointment. For me is just a matter of personal taste and how I see or perceive the Yi itself.

L
 
C

candid

Guest
4 is about much more than consulting the oracle too often. W/B does a terrible job interpreting it, as I find it does a terrible job of interpreting many hexagrams. It provides a great initial base for understanding, but beyond that it often misses the mark.

C
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
"W/B does a terrible job interpreting it, as I find it does a terrible job of interpreting many hexagrams. It provides a great initial base for understanding, but beyond that it often misses the mark."

Yeah, my feelings too, but there are two issues here. The first is how accurate the translation is, how faithful to the original text it is. I think the Wilhelm/Baynes Yi plays really fast and loose with the translation - 'never let accuracy get in the way of a poetic rendering' seems to have been the principle there.

On the other hand, there's the more important issue of how useful the translation is for you. What's good's accuracy if it doesn't work for you? And what does a loose translation matter if it works for you?
 

bradford_h

(deceased)
Joined
Nov 16, 1971
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
63
Hi Dobro-
While I agree with you about Wilhelm's infidelity to the Chinese text, I can't take that relativistic or subjective a stance supporting personal point of view. It s the Chinese text that has survived these three thousand years, not some new age gimmick, interpretation, or fanciful translation. If anything, I'd recommend someone get BOTH a good translation and something that works for them, but never the latter by itself - that's just going out to sea without a compass.
b
 
C

candid

Guest
I can't speak to accuracy or fidelity to original Chinese text, but I do know what works for me. However I also agree with Brad, and add: funny thing about being lost at sea, you don't usually know you're lost... at least not for quite some time. However if you do survive the first few journeys without running up on the rocks, you begin developing sea legs and a sailor's instincts. Then, it doesn't matter much what the ancient navigational charts say, you know from the landmarks and sky where you are. You watch the birds and dolphins, the swell of tides and the smell of danger.

If given the choice of harbor pilot, I'll choose the one who has been here before, preferably many times.

Absolutely no disrespect to those who arrive in port through another passage, so long as they arrive safely, they and their passengers.

C
 

bradford_h

(deceased)
Joined
Nov 16, 1971
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
63
Hi Candid
Not that I have anything against exploring the unknown, and in wildeeness I'm Always off the trail, and if I hunted deer I wouldn't take no damn forester along.
But I am concerned for the ones who wander too far astray, because it feels right to wander, and then once lost they can only mumble to themselves in their own one person language. It's hard to call out for help in this useless tongue.
And I do think there are real objective meanings in all the lines of the Yi, even if these are a lot broader or more ambivalent than normal meanings. The Yi is lots more specific than Rorschach blots.
b
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Brad,

Excellent point. While there is much that can be said for intuition (and ink blots), it by itself has a larger-than-life margin for error, not unlike reading tea leaves or clouds. Then there's the dangerous element of projection on the part of the reader.

Likewise can the stiff renderings of literalism (no matter historically accurate) fail to reveal the inner workings of the subconscious, who's part shouldn't be underestimated.

C
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top