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Same person issue

em ching

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Hello,

I still have feelings for someone I probably shouldn't have. Though while I still do, I still hope, and am not convinced that it is just a chronic ailment one day to vanish :brickwall:

As we're not in contact, I wonder about him cluelessly.
I asked how to deal with these feelings at the mo?
3.5>24
Try not to let them grow too much, a little is fine (and inevitable) but keep them under control. Try and re-center yourself. You've got your own path to walk never mind anyone else...

Is there a possibility of what I hope for?
64
Not yet? Or this could be reflecting how my feelings are still in chaos over him, because I have feelings for him yet we don't see each other or even talk anymore. Maybe this is reflecting the situation, or my inner-state? Currently still out of alignment? Thus it could be saying my feelings for him are distrupting my equilibreum? Or, looking outward, that the possiblities have yet to begin?

Is he following my blog?
48
I could take this two ways.
Yes - he's drawing from my 'well'.
No - 'the unchanging well' - it's near him, yet he doesn't come to this particular well. Comes and goes to the blog site taking what he needs, and if his sentiments are against me then he would not be seeking me, and thus not find me.

To clear up above ambiguity I asked:
Is he drawing from my well (ie. my blog)?
21.2,6>54
21.2 is about trying something out to see if it's nourishing? Or could that be me, trying too hard to get him to notice me and thus getting egg on my face? (though it would all boil down to chance, he coming across my page, but we do have similar interests..)
21.6> Lise: 'One hears what one expects to hear and does not hear or see reality.'
- I think he wouldn't expect to find me on this blog site, and his ears and eyes and senses are closed to me, so even if he did he wouldn't think for a moment it was me because I'm not on his mind?
54> Well, never bodes too well for romance, well, a relationship anyway. Could it be reflecting that he took what he needed but never saw me as a potential 'wife', and so doesn't seek me out or think of me now that I'm gone?

Any help here would be great. I had thought the first 3 readings positive, but I wonder if you could say what the fourth means in light of the 3rd especially.

Thanks :)

:bows:
 

Trojina

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I knew someone well who would become obsessed with thoughts an ex he was no longer in contact with as a symptom of depression. At first he didn't connect it with depression...then he came to recognise it and treat it as part of his depression. It would resurface almost as a precursor to a depressive episode. One time he did contact her but it didn't help. She was aloof and it didn't help calm any of his feelings

I don't know if this is what is happening with you...but I do think trying to communicate with him via the blog is not a good idea. I think its too remote, afterall if you aren't on such terms to even talk directly what use will writing a blog to him be...and its so public you may feel exposed.

Echoing what Tiger said in another thread writing for the sake of writing the blog is one thing, writing with the intent of reaching one person you aren't in touch with seems very unsatisfactory. I see your options if you want more contact as only being to contact him directly....Even if he sees the blog what do you envisage then happening ?

Not sure I'd contact someone because I suspected they were telling me their feelings in a blog. Unless you mention his name how will he know ?

I feel you are getting a little lost here which is why the only real question there is how to deal with your feeling for which you got 3.5. Okay your other questions were real but the answers show me you aren't going anywhere with the blog way of connecting with him...butits not just the answers that make me say that

Amazing how often 3 comes up around depression..hmm anyway if i go with the hypothesis that you current feelings are a symptom of depression, especially if the thoughts are unrelenting and obsessive then the first step is realising the intensity of this isn't about him its about your depression...then 3.5 would counsel you not to expect too much of yourself too soon. Wouldn't be realistic just to stop thinking of him because you commanded yourself to but you can help yourself in smaller ways...by taking care of yourself the way you do when you have depression


If you feel you aren't depressed at all then I appreciate my depression hypothesis will be extremely annoying ...so apologies for that, just a theory.

However I really just can't see any mileage in the idea that writing the blog will improve your relations with him at all. I think previous answers in other threads showed this. 31.6 for example trying to influence through talking doesn't really reach and here in these readings I think it couldn't be clearer, you got 21.6 so there is something you are choosing not to hear


I feel your best way forward is to allow your fantasies of him, your thoughts of him their space..then start paying attention to how you really feel and if you feel really down and these thoughts of him are kind of buoying you up or are even a kind of avoidance strategy then recognise that and think over what to do about your state of mind.


From reading your threads over time, knowing you can get depressed, I'm just aware that when 'drive you mad circling thoughts' start kicking off into obsession territory then you could be heading into a depression ?



I'm also aware that this answer may annoy you (but i mean well) I'm not implying your feelings aren't genuine its just that other psychological dynamics can kick in around those attachment feelings....and really do your head in



OTOH if you are not remotely depressed.....................
 
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em ching

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Hi Trojan,

I'll admit my heart did sink a bit when you said it may be a symptom of depression, but I do see what you mean. I've been thinking about it and I do feel a sad yearning, for him specifically, all the time. Though I didn't when in China with other people, although I did wonder about him, I didn't yearn for him as I do now... again..

Well I suppose I just hoped that if he came across it, he would realise there's more to me, and that he can relate to me; that I'm worth making up with... but... realistically... as you say, if he didn't have strong enough feelings to contact me much when we were friends, then he's not going to now on the basis of words in a blog. You either love someone or you don't; no matter what they say or do. Someone can be an idiot and you love them; or a kind genius and you don't want to know... Argh. Why?? But I just feel like since we lost touch, I've become a more confident and enlightened person and I wish he'd see it (I behaved needily with him which is why it broke off..)

I asked, after your response, Is he just a symptom of depression? (or at least my underlying dissatisfaction with my life at the mo, despite not actually feeling depressed in a severe way as I once did)
23.3>52
Initially I thought this was saying don't be depressed by this depressing thought. Hold still and resist it :rolleyes: But it's probably talking about how I'll be better off when I no longer have loving feelings for him, because having these feelings when he's treated me as nothing is continually undermining and devaluing me...

Hilary: You are connected with an individual, a group or an environment that isn’t good for you, and it is not wrong to have this connection stripped away. The situation is simple enough, however complex the emotions around it. Undergoing this ‘stripping away’ will leave you more centred and less vulnerable.

But because of the strong connection I initially felt towards him, it's not leaving me any time soon. (3.5 I guess)

I then asked, Is he aware of me in his withdrawal?
59.4>6
I'm not exactly how this is answering the question. I guess it's reflecting our dissolution (though the connection is as strong as ever in my head) And that it happened so that in the long run, something else can happen... such as meeting someone else, or whatever else has happened as a result of our falling out. (It did spur my writing after all... and I learnt a lesson (I hope)).

Would you say that sounds right?

Just thinking that is all it is, symptomatic of my emotional vulnerability and depression makes me feel sad though. That love is a fairytale (or the kind that I seem to want anyway). And lonely to think this someone I felt very in tune with, means nothing. I hope I don't always compare the projection of him or the way he made me feel, with real life potential suitors...

Thanks.

Em
 
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Trojina

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Hi Trojan,

I'll admit my heart did sink a bit when you said it may be a symptom of depression, but I do see what you mean. I've been thinking about it and I do feel a sad yearning, for him specifically, all the time. Though I didn't when in China with other people, although I did wonder about him, I didn't yearn for him as I do now... again..

that sad yearning 'all the time' sounds like your feelings for him are a sort of vehicle for the depression...and some say much of depression is about loss, so naturally this is making a circle, your thoughts of loss give depression and your depression gives you constant thoughts on loss

Well I suppose I just hoped that if he came across it, he would realise there's more to me, and that he can relate to me; that I'm worth making up with... but... realistically... as you say, if he didn't have strong enough feelings to contact me much when we were friends, then he's not going to now on the basis of words in a blog. You either love someone or you don't; no matter what they say or do. Someone can be an idiot and you love them; or a kind genius and you don't want to know... Argh. Why?? But I just feel like since we lost touch, I've become a more confident and enlightened person and I wish he'd see it (I behaved needily with him which is why it broke off..)

Of course you are worth making up with...don't let his rejection impact on your self worth. The point is its not wrong to be needy if thats how you genuinely were at the time. Its like you have thought ' well if I behaved better and was this better person like I am now he'd want to know me" but you can't shape yourself to this perfect person and if he was right for you none of that would have mattered anyway


I asked, after your response, Is he just a symptom of depression? (or at least my underlying dissatisfaction with my life at the mo, despite not actually feeling depressed in a severe way as I once did)
23.3>52
Initially I thought this was saying don't be depressed by this depressing thought. Hold still and resist it :rolleyes: But it's probably talking about how I'll be better off when I no longer have loving feelings for him, because having these feelings when he's treated me as nothing is continually undermining and devaluing me...

I feel this answer supports the depression hypothesis...yes you will be better when you have let go of wanting someone that is giving you absolutely nothing right now...not even minimal contact...its like trying to feed yourself on fresh air when you need 3 meals a day. However don't try to throw your loving feelings in the bin, I feel that would only lower self esteem further. Your loving feelings are a precious part of you. Just because he couldn't honour them or respond to them no need for you to trash them too. Allow yourself some grieving. You can't just order your feelings to be gone...maybe for now you treat them like a wound you are tending gently


Hilary: You are connected with an individual, a group or an environment that isn’t good for you, and it is not wrong to have this connection stripped away. The situation is simple enough, however complex the emotions around it. Undergoing this ‘stripping away’ will leave you more centred and less vulnerable.

But because of the strong connection I initially felt towards him, it's not leaving me any time soon. (3.5 I guess)

3.5 is about small gains, incremental gains, not working things out all at once.

I then asked, Is he aware of me in his withdrawal?
59.4>6
I'm not exactly how this is answering the question. I guess it's reflecting our dissolution (though the connection is as strong as ever in my head) And that it happened so that in the long run, something else can happen... such as meeting someone else, or whatever else has happened as a result of our falling out. (It did spur my writing after all... and I learnt a lesson (I hope)).

Would you say that sounds right?

Yes i think so, its a hardline to get a handle on. Often it seems to highlight that things become clearer once you get some distance

Just thinking that is all it is, symptomatic of my emotional vulnerability and depression makes me feel sad though. That love is a fairytale (or the kind that I seem to want anyway). And lonely to think this someone I felt very in tune with, means nothing. I hope I don't always compare the projection of him or the way he made me feel, with real life potential suitors...

Thanks.

Em

Yes it is sad that someone you felt very in tune with seems to treat it like it meant nothing. But actually you don't know that it meant nothing to him, don't tell yourself that. It must have meant something or he would never have had the relationship in the first place. But even though it meant something for whatever reason he chose not or couldn't continue. Who knows maybe someday you will reconnect...but the more pressing issue now I think is how you are because if you are feeling sad all the time and trying to connect with him through the blog and getting no response from him, no connection at all, then the message you are sending yourself is one that perpetuates low self esteem and hopelessness etc feeding the old black dog, depression.

I never meant to imply your love for him was just a symptom of your vulnerability. I don't believe that at all, that would be to invalidate your deepest reality. How can your capacity to love be a symptom of anything. All I meant was sometimes the sneaky devil 'depression' sort of latches onto these situations...as a kind of 'add on'...like a virus/parasite if you like. So if you already have an underlying tendency to depression, and all the negative thoughts that go along with it, they can begin to cluster around your feelings of loss around him...even though actually the depression is a seperate entity to your real feelings for him.

i hope that makes sense


Meanwhile we cannot have Claritys High Priestess of Wicca feeling she is not worthy !!
 

elias

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Very interesting questions, em. I worked on this offline as time permitted and see the conversation's moved on a bit.. apologies if any of this is old news...

3.5 “A little perseverance brings good fortune. Great perseverance brings misfortune.” I agree with your reading of this – stay centered, go about your business. One author notes that this line may refer to another who feels a sense of inferiority, which complicates the issues.

64 Well, there’s always a possibility of reconnecting. “Before completion”means just that – the story isn’t over. When your thoughts drift toward someone, it may indicate that theirs are drifting toward you.

48 and your blog. Some thoughts about your intent – “Carrying water to give to others can only reach a few; digging a well and letting them draw from it will benefit many. ‘Carrying water’ is contrived good, ‘digging a well’ is uncontrived good….” (Chih-hsu) Is he or isn’t he reading? Hard to say from this response. You’re bringing art into the world – perhaps that’s enough for the moment? Perhaps the larger good you serve in this will affect a positive change in quite unexpected directions.

21.2 “Biting through skin, destroying the nose, there is no blame.” The hex altogether talks about punishment for misdeeds. In this case, perhaps in retrospect a bit too much “punishment” for some transgression, but not a huge mistake. To continue carrying a grudge, demanding retribution, making the other jump through some flaming hoops to get back into your good graces, etc. is to carry things too far, however.

21.6 “Wearing a cangue, destroying the ears.” Obstinacy – on the part of you or the other – has led to humiliation. Very slow process of correcting the situation if it has truly come to this pass.

For what it’s worth, 21.2 yin-to-yang rules this reading in my estimation.

54 – I don’t buy the notion that this hex is a bad omen for a relationship. It’s problematic when a relationship is undertaken for the wrong reason—usually having to do with desire, impatience, greed, dominance. It cautions that participants should enter into the relationship on equal terms and with clear expectations. The maiden “draws out the allotted time” and, despite fears of being an old maid, finds a true partner; the princess marries beneath her station but finds happiness. One can also set expectations too high, as line 6 cautions…

@Trojan: interesting theory. I also go through stages of compulsive thinking about old relationships, but find that a sign that a depression is ending. A year ago, writing out a lot of very old issues brought me out of a very long dry spell. I often wondered (and still do) if there’s any value in rechurning old stuff and IC always gives a positive response. There’s a lot of theraputic value in speaking out issues.
 

em ching

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Its like you have thought ' well if I behaved better and was this better person like I am now he'd want to know me" but you can't shape yourself to this perfect person and if he was right for you none of that would have mattered anyway

...its like trying to feed yourself on fresh air when you need 3 meals a day. However don't try to throw your loving feelings in the bin, I feel that would only lower self esteem further. Your loving feelings are a precious part of you. Just because he couldn't honour them or respond to them no need for you to trash them too. Allow yourself some grieving. You can't just order your feelings to be gone...maybe for now you treat them like a wound you are tending gently

because if you are feeling sad all the time and trying to connect with him through the blog and getting no response from him, no connection at all, then the message you are sending yourself is one that perpetuates low self esteem and hopelessness etc feeding the old black dog, depression.

I never meant to imply your love for him was just a symptom of your vulnerability. I don't believe that at all, that would be to invalidate your deepest reality. How can your capacity to love be a symptom of anything. All I meant was sometimes the sneaky devil 'depression' sort of latches onto these situations...as a kind of 'add on'...like a virus/parasite if you like. So if you already have an underlying tendency to depression, and all the negative thoughts that go along with it, they can begin to cluster around your feelings of loss around him...even though actually the depression is a seperate entity to your real feelings for him.

Thanks Trojan, Brilliant. Really well put.
Well, that isn't the one and only, or the main purpose, of my blog now. I'm enjoying it. But I do wonder/hope...
At the same time, weirdly I suppose, everyday, I do not expect him to contact me, yet I still see him in my future; assume he's at the end of my road, which may be ridiculous considering, but it's how I feel.. I guess that's the ego's preservation/defense mechanism mode...
Yes all my depressive feelings are mainly about the loss of him, and it does make sense that it's hit me harder than it may have others (we were never even in a proper relationship either) because of my tendency to depression/low-self esteem anyway.

Thanks so much for your insight. I will just keep going with it all and try not to worry so much about something I can do nothing about (Hex 52 line 3 characterises it).

:):bows:
 

em ching

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48 and your blog. Some thoughts about your intent – “Carrying water to give to others can only reach a few; digging a well and letting them draw from it will benefit many. ‘Carrying water’ is contrived good, ‘digging a well’ is uncontrived good….” (Chih-hsu) Is he or isn’t he reading? Hard to say from this response. You’re bringing art into the world – perhaps that’s enough for the moment? Perhaps the larger good you serve in this will affect a positive change in quite unexpected directions.

21.2 “Biting through skin, destroying the nose, there is no blame.” The hex altogether talks about punishment for misdeeds. In this case, perhaps in retrospect a bit too much “punishment” for some transgression, but not a huge mistake. To continue carrying a grudge, demanding retribution, making the other jump through some flaming hoops to get back into your good graces, etc. is to carry things too far, however.
21.6 “Wearing a cangue, destroying the ears.” Obstinacy – on the part of you or the other – has led to humiliation. Very slow process of correcting the situation if it has truly come to this pass.
For what it’s worth, 21.2 yin-to-yang rules this reading in my estimation.

54 – I don’t buy the notion that this hex is a bad omen for a relationship. It’s problematic when a relationship is undertaken for the wrong reason—usually having to do with desire, impatience, greed, dominance. It cautions that participants should enter into the relationship on equal terms and with clear expectations. The maiden “draws out the allotted time” and, despite fears of being an old maid, finds a true partner; the princess marries beneath her station but finds happiness. One can also set expectations too high, as line 6 cautions…

Thanks elias. There is a duality to hex 48 and you really helped me get my head round it. It's enough that the well is there. So I'll just look at it like that.
You hit the nail on the head re. hex 21. I did make a mistake with him, but I apologised and explained, but he wouldn't hear it. So that's that. In his opinion it seems. No forgiveness...

I asked again, what is happening now in this situation?
54.4,5 > 60

Like you highlighted, I need to wait, have faith that there's someone out there that's right for me. Be it him or someone else... and so not to take second best. And also not to rush into something out of desperation or fear of lonliness...
and 54.5 marrying someone beneath your station... hmm. I don't know where that'll come in. Though I'm pretty sure the man in question doesn't see me as his equal after what happened which is why I'm doing this as Trojan inferred: Its like you have thought ' well if I behaved better and was this better person like I am now he'd want to know me" but you can't shape yourself to this perfect person and if he was right for you none of that would have mattered anyway

And I know relationships, all types, need a foundation of respect..

And hex 60 - well, that things are being measured our appropriately at the mo. You can't have everything at once and some have to wait longer for that fairytale romance... :rolleyes:

Thanks :)
:bows:
 

em ching

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28.4>48

Just another, I asked What have I not yet accepted about this relationship?
28.4 > 48

I have not accepted that any more pressure and it'll break and all fall into the well of experience?... well I did pressurize him and it did break so is it saying I haven't accepted this is how it is? But then hex 64 suggests there's more to the story... but that could mean my feelings not yet realigned (ie not yet over him) or looking out, that sometime in the future they will realign with his input. And the rod is braced but only as long as expectations are low?

Then again it could mean my feelings for him have peaked? Or the greatest height of the relationship has been achieved already? And to 48 could suggest he will always be a source of love/experience/inspiration but its intensity has passed? I should think that's the case if he stays out of my life...

How would you read this answer? Read in previous readings that it can refer to a relationship where one person wants it much more than the other... that has been the case... :duh:
 
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elias

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Of 28 generally, it's my experience that the ridgepole may sag, but it never breaks. Difficulties pass in their own time. Some suggest that issues are coming to a climax, though that hasn't necessarily been my experience, unless the climax is of an unconscious resolution and thus an easing of some internal issue.

I think C Anthony speaks to your situation well: "The 'ridgepole sags' when we become infected with doubt. On seeing the difficulties of the situation our inferiors become alarmed. They try to determine what will happen next. Their fears produce an energy to react.... [she follows with a list of the naughtiness that happens when the ego takes over] The remedy is to cease anticipating and return to dependence on the Higher Power. We cease allowing ourselves to press forward, or to think of giving up.... We can meet this challenge if we remain detached and allow the changes to proceed as they will...."

28.4: A suggestion that things are improving ("the ridgepole is braced") and a caution not to relax into self-importance, put on a jolly face to influence another, or let ambition lead you into over-reaching what the situation will allow.

Interesting to see 48 come around again in your readings, so it might be worth just spending time at The Well. In case you haven't seen Hilary's take: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/gua/hexagrams/hexagram48.php

The "classic" Wilhelm interpretation: http://theabysmal.wordpress.com/2006/10/21/i-ching-hexagram-48/

LiSe: http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_33-48/hex_e_48.htm

Some interesting narratives here (the first time I've found much of interest on this site): http://www.ichingresources.co.uk/hexagrams/h48.html

all the best...
 

tigerintheboat

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You Can Move the City, But You Can't Take The Well With You

Just another, I asked What have I not yet accepted about this relationship?
28.4 > 48

I have not accepted that any more pressure and it'll break and all fall into the well of experience?... well I did pressurize him and it did break so is it saying I haven't accepted this is how it is? :
H28.4 is the story of something which can hold as it is, but can't grow. The thing that is holding it together will not grow, or stand more pressure.

Interesting that you got H48 before as a answer to a question about his behavior...we have been discussing this recently in Reading Circle...Ginnie said this recently in a post about H48...

Ginnie: They don't listen well. Interestingly, the top trigram is connected in the body to the ear, hearing and listening. When H48 has no moving lines, it's like you're talking to a deaf person. They just don't "get" what you're saying. Even if you tell them the same thing 50,000 times, they keep on doing things the same, old way.
............
Also, the well has to do with how we meet our human biological and social needs. In this context, H48 unchanging, the person knows or perceives very well what his or her own personal needs are -- and may bring them up again and again, harping on what they want.

In the same thread, I noted this about some H48 situations...

Tiger: I do get H48 for a lot of intractable things...there was one particularly intractable client, a big worldwide company, that I could never make them change anything, not even things that would be in their best interest. I got H48 when asking about them.

Here are a few "intractable" H48 readings from the recent past.

Comments and advice on making Company A a client: H48 (they never signed, and are now part of an even larger company, still talking)

Describe X as a client, particularly as regards payment: H48 (they are what they are, a sole entrepreneur small company with cash flows problems. They won't change.)

How is it best to prepare for this trip (Dad's illness): H48 (he died a few days later)

Em, you have a resource there that won't move (H48) (it is intractable; it won't change for you) and you have to dig through the ground each time to reach the water.

Meanwhile, in the main part of the reading, what you have or had is all you can have, without the situation falling apart (H28.4).

So, back to your question, what you haven't accepted is that the (1) the relationship has already reached its height, and (2) as a resource to you, this man is intractable. There is something there, but don't expect it to change for you. You will have to dig and work hard to get the water. It will not come to you.

Sorry about this...one of my friends in California refers to me as the "buzz killer." But that is how these hexagrams seem to me...

Best Wishes,
Tiger
 

em ching

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I think C Anthony speaks to your situation well: "The 'ridgepole sags' when we become infected with doubt.

Yes we were friends, just. But I wanted more, then doubted his friendship (because I expected more because I wanted more because I gave him more) And then snap.

Thanks elias. And for the links.

:):bows:
 

em ching

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Meanwhile, in the main part of the reading, what you have or had is all you can have, without the situation falling apart (H28.4).

(1) the relationship has already reached its height, and (2) as a resource to you, this man is intractable.

H28.4 is the story of something which can hold as it is, but can't grow. The thing that is holding it together will not grow, or stand more pressure.

Excellent. That sounds the most realistic/likely explanation considering the whole saga. (Not at all 'Twilight' lol...)

They don't listen well. Interestingly, the top trigram is connected in the body to the ear, hearing and listening. When H48 has no moving lines, it's like you're talking to a deaf person. They just don't "get" what you're saying. Even if you tell them the same thing 50,000 times, they keep on doing things the same, old way.
- That fits, he's pretty stubborn, I think. Once he's made up his mind. And he cut me off, so I guess that's how it will stay.

I came across this quote, and from my point of view at least, it fits:

"A true soul mate is probably the most important person you’ll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then leave. A soul mate’s purpose is to shake you up, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light can get in, and make you so desperate and out of control that you have to transform your life." Elizabeth Gilbert
- I feel that's what he's done to me.

Thanks tiger. Yes a buzz killer but a sensible one :) And I didn't feel the usual heart-sinking that I have before upon hearing such advice... maybe I'm starting to accept it.

I asked last night, do I have any influence over him at the moment? (through my blog or otherwise)
11. 3, 4, 6> 38
Looked at as a sentence, I saw 'Make peace with the estrangement'.

I then asked, just to check/still in denial :rolleyes:
What kind of peaceful (hex 11) influence?
59.2 > 20
Wilhelm says this is about a man who tries to put a stop to dissolution with the prince and behaves unusually to do it. (I guess that's what I've done - I cut him off because I wanted to be closer to him, hoping he'd come after me, but it was a gamble that didn't pay off and I ended up grovelling to no avail :)o), and he cut me off doubly), and now am seeking unusual and possibly impossible ways of getting his fellowship back (the blog - though not its main purpose, he was the instigator to beginning it)

And hex 20 is all about standing back. Seeing things for what they are. Something that exists that you can't change maybe? Only understand and learn from. How you've influenced and been influenced... detachment from a previous situation from which you learnt...

Thanks all :):bows:
 
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Tohpol

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"A true soul mate is probably the most important person you’ll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then leave. A soul mate’s purpose is to shake you up, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light can get in, and make you so desperate and out of control that you have to transform your life." Elizabeth Gilbert
- I feel that's what he's done to me.


Some real truth in that quote. My last girlfriend did that to me too. A truly beautiful human being outside and in though I wasn't quite able to realise it at the time.

Soul mates are often the ones that indeed allow you to shed a few more layers so that you can get that bit closer to the real you. Unsurprisingly, like the limescale on kettles, our survival mechanisms, conditionings and faulty perceptions can end up being a veritable fortress that has to be slowly dismantled if we are to live anything approaching an authentic life. These walls or fake personas can become so much a part of our normal life that we do not recognise when we are being mechanical and essentially fake.

Soul mates love you enough to take on that role of "destroyer" even if it means their presence might be fleeting. In the movie that is our life, they play a pivitol role and it's usually at the soul mate's entrance and exit that we can see the process of real change. That to me, is what defines the love of a soul mate, that may even appear as an enemy. The loss is all part of it as it is the loss that facilitates shock and thereby understanding or a "rewiring" of our whole system.

It may be that such roles are played and thrashed out even before we don the "spacesuits" of our personalities and pay our tickets back into this material reality. There's no question in my mind that she was the catalyst for a painful H.24 return to what was real in myself and I was able to introduce her to own path in finer detail. It's only in hindsight that the understanding of our experiences can be known, when all the emotion has died down, only then the symmetry of all our somewhat perpendicular realities can converge and be understood objectively - i.e. seeing things as they really are. No BS.

Of course, there are also those persons who are not remotely connected at the soul level and who perhaps represent a mirror of some darkness within our own psyche. Or maybe there is an unfortunate "glitch" in the life-path where some psycho drops through a dimensional window into your lap! But in general, I think our greatest learning curves come from those we have lost but where connection remains at a different level of reality and where we may yet again experience that meeting in the light of new awareness at some indefinite time, here, or after death. I liken it to sitting down and discussing how a movie went: who remembered their lines, who had a great cameo and who helped you make you the spiritual hero of your own movie.

Good luck EM. I'm sure you're on the right road.
 

themis

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A soul mate's influence on one's life, could be likened to that of ... a ricochet effect on water. ;)
 
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elias

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I think our greatest learning curves come from those we have lost but where connection remains at a different level of reality and where we may yet again experience that meeting in the light of new awareness at some indefinite time, here, or after death

Fabulous! Something I've been trying to formulate for quite a while. Thanks
 

em ching

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Been reading through the hex 48 links.
I think, because it's unchanging and the judgement talks about not reaching the well/the jug breaking, unless you get line 5 or 6, you are to assume that the well is not being used? That sounds the most probable considering no sign..

Just because it's there, doesn't mean he's accessing it. Maybe he has his own well already? And so is not looking for another. Or mine is too far away to consider etc etc.

Anway just recapping (after receiving hex 48 unchanging again asking if he's ever read any of it. Yes I know same Q again but...) and as it started forming hex 48 I could hardly believe it and had to really concentrate as I was casting to clear my mind so as not to pre-empt it/interrupt the flow somehow!...

:bows:
 

elias

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lol-- like watching a slow-motion train wreck... there is absolutely nothing you can do...

Sometimes with recurring hexes you will not understand until it's time to understand. You can't push the river.
 

tigerintheboat

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Hilary on H48

Been reading through the hex 48 links.
I think, because it's unchanging and the judgement talks about not reaching the well/the jug breaking, unless you get line 5 or 6, you are to assume that the well is not being used? That sounds the most probable considering no sign...
Hilary said this recently in a Reading Circle post, about H48.

Hilary: "As for 48 unchanging... well, sometimes when a hexagram's unchanging, its nuclear hexagram becomes more of a presence, don't you think? Like the 54-experience at the heart of 11 unchanging, being swept off down river into all kinds of change you didn't ask for. 48 contains 38: there's a great big gap between the flowing water at the bottom of the well and the life that goes on at the top. Maybe 48 unchanging implies more strongly that this gulf is unbridgeable?"

Tiger
 

tigerintheboat

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Shift Your Focus

What kind of peaceful (hex 11) influence?
59.2 > 20
How about the following interpretation:

Dissolve the situation (H59) by shifting your focus to your support (Line 2) and then you will observe/see the world as it is and what is in it for you (H20).

Observe what Lise says about H20:

"The heron sits immovable for hours – and in a split second he grasps a fish. In order to see, one’s own inner world has to be still. Every inner sound overrules the signals, or colors them and distorts them. One can only see under water when the surface is quiet."

As for soul mates, I know nothing about this, I think, having been married to the same woman for 32 years now. If asked, she might say that the quote below is her favorite quote on love and marriage, as it is mine.

Rainer Maria Rilke, from "Rilke on Love and Other Difficulties"

"There is scarcely anything more difficult than to love one another. That it is work, day labor, day labor, God knows there is no other word for it. And look, added to this is the fact that young people are not prepared for such difficult loving; for convention has tried to make this most complicated and ultimate relationship into something easy and frivolous, has given it the appearance of everyone's being able to do it."

Tiger

 

icegrapefruit

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Rainer Maria Rilke, from "Rilke on Love and Other Difficulties"

"There is scarcely anything more difficult than to love one another. That it is work, day labor, day labor, God knows there is no other word for it. And look, added to this is the fact that young people are not prepared for such difficult loving; for convention has tried to make this most complicated and ultimate relationship into something easy and frivolous, has given it the appearance of everyone's being able to do it."

Tiger


LOL! I sometimes think one should get parent-licence before they have kids, and maybe we should get lovers-licence before we step out to the world? :D
 

em ching

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Rainer Maria Rilke, from "Rilke on Love and Other Difficulties"

"There is scarcely anything more difficult than to love one another. That it is work, day labor, day labor, God knows there is no other word for it. And look, added to this is the fact that young people are not prepared for such difficult loving; for convention has tried to make this most complicated and ultimate relationship into something easy and frivolous, has given it the appearance of everyone's being able to do it."

Tiger


Thanks tiger :) I feel quite calm and objective about the whole thing now - i am a heron :) If anything else, the love I've felt has instigated a lot, such as writing, blogging, wanting to be a better person etc etc. So if nothing else, I got some rewards for my feelings even if not the one I wanted :rolleyes:

I will bear your quote in mind if ever I get into a real relationship...

:bows:
 

tigerintheboat

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Heron

Thanks tiger :) I feel quite calm and objective about the whole thing now - i am a heron :)

I saw you while out walking just the other day...I only had a cell phone, but you were definitely doing the "heron" thing, lying in wait.

p693050858-3.jpg


When I approached, you took off...

p812041806.jpg


Maybe next time.

Tiger
 

tigerintheboat

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Slight Regret, but here is the Egret

The Egret is a close cousin to the Heron, at least in attitude...he was a more cooperative subject and I had my proper equipment.

p517945761-3.jpg


Tiger
 

Trojina

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Tiger in your post 26 there are just 2 large grey boxes saying 'content protected by owner' with a couple of padlocks
 

em ching

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:D Yes - tiger I'd like to see those pictures that seem to be locked? That one of the Egret is lovely. Amazing lighting too. Heron's are one of my favourite animals along with foxes, whales... (I'm sure there are others but I've forgotten...)

:bows:
 

elias

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Post #27 is a great blue heron. Impressive shot -- they are very shy birds.
 

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