Shiraz, Iran: Divination at the tomb of the Sufi saint and poet Hafez

[IrfanK]

Cleaning up my computer, I came across some old images from a visit I made to Iran about six or seven years ago. I was in Shiraz on the day that marked the death of the Sufi saint Hafez, so I went to see the celebrations at his tomb. It's quite interesting. Persians have a tradition of asking a question and opening a book of his poetry at random to find their answer. Since a lot of his poetry was extremely erotic, you can see how it could be a serious exercise in flirtation between men and women who are exploring their relationship. It was great fun! I just thought I'd share the images.

 

[marybluesky]

Hello;

I'm Persian irfan. Among other things, we use the book of Hafez for asking the oracle, specially in love matters. There are interpretations for every poem written in some versions of the book.

There is also another common tradition for asking the oracle of Hafez: they put several pieces of paper in front of a lovebird. Any piece has a different poem with its interpretation. Then the lovebird chooses the poem for the querent.

I visited Shiraz many years ago. Lovely city with a special, tender atmosphere

 

[IrfanK]

Hello;

I'm Persian irfan. Among other things, we use the book of Hafez for asking the oracle, specially in love matters. There are interpretations for every poem written in some versions of the book.

There is also another common tradition for asking the oracle of Hafez: they put several pieces of paper in front of a lovebird. Any piece has a different poem with its interpretation. Then the lovebird chooses the poem for the querent.

I visited Shiraz many years ago. Lovely city with a special, tender atmosphere

Ah! It's a gorgeous country, with an incredibly rich culture! And yes, Shiraz is particularly lovely town, although my affections divided between it and Isfahan. I visited at a particularly difficult time, when there was a dramatic showdown with Israel and the riyal was dropping through the floor, which was causing a lot of pain, with some big disturbances in Tehran. Even so, people went out of their way to be friendly and hospitable. I have to say, it was also wonderful to be able to wander around those breathtaking historical sites without sharing them with more than a handful of other foreign tourists. Quite unlike any other country I've visited.

Have you seen the brilliant short two-minute film by by Sayed Mohammad Reza Kheradmandan, Thursday Appointment? Hafez plays a prominent part, with the couple reading his poetry to each other. I won't include any spoilers, but you really do have to watch it right to the end and keep your eyes open to get it (@marybluesky, the cultural references are probably easy for you, but maybe not for others). I missed what it was really about until I watched it the second or third time.

 

[IrfanK]

There is also another common tradition for asking the oracle of Hafez: they put several pieces of paper in front of a lovebird. Any piece has a different poem with its interpretation. Then the lovebird chooses the poem for the querent.

Mary, I missed that. Isn't that delightful! Much nicer, really, than smashing open tortoises.

For the black mole on her cheek
I would give the cities of Samarkand and Bukhara

 

[marybluesky]

Glad to hear that you enjoyed being in Iran!

I'll watch the video

 

[charly]

Mary, I missed that. Isn't that delightful! Much nicer, really, than smashing open tortoises.

For the black mole on her cheek
I would give the cities of Samarkand and Bukhara

Hi Mary and Irfan:

Thanks a lot for sharing this Love Oracle with us.

A picture from BBC - Travel
with the Lucky Little Parrot picking up at random
some verses from Hafez , "El Memorioso":


Source: http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20181023-irans-fascinating-way-to-tell-fortunes
​

May I ask you some of your experiences divining with Hafez? What´s the book you use, how do you proceed?

Thanks in advance.

All the best!

Charly.
________________________
P.D.: In my country the lucky parrots lasted
till no much more than 20 years ago:


The last organ grinder was Héctor Manuel Salvo “Manú Balero”,
who walked the streets of Buenos Aires for 30 years with the lucky
parrots Teresita and Consuelo, trained by him.
He died on September 11, 1998.

Mural “El organito”

Alberti 1180 esquina San Juan … “Y al triste son de esa su canción sigue el organito lerdo como sembrando a su paso más pes...

sancristobalteencontre.blogspot.com

Ch.

 

[my_key]

Not quite the same, nor maybe as eloquent as the Hafez texts however I use at times the Paulo Coelho book " Manual of the Warrior of Light" to give me a quick insight into any inner consternation I am holding.

My method:
I settle myself and locate my consternation inside. I hold the book closed in front of me and 'throw' my consternation into the book at the same time flicking my thumb across the closed pages. Stopping and opening the book at a page on the whim of my thumb.

Just did it now......
Stopped at Page 91. This just happens to have as its topic "The Warrior of Light knows the importance of intuition."
The text closes with
......But the warrior knows that intuition is God's alphabet and he continues listening to the wind and talking to the stars.

 

[marybluesky]

@Charly; lovely question!

like the I Ching oracle, you first concentrate on the question or the subject you want to know about. Many people then read "Fatiha" for Hafez -the Islamic tradition of reading some verses of Quran so that the spirit of a deceased person is forgiven and finds tranquility-; and/or adjure Hafez to tell the truth in the name of his beloved, Shakheh-Nabat; and/or read a simple poem to ask Hafez about the truth. You can skip the steps, although they are very common. Then you use a method of asking the oracle of Hafez:

He has a very famous book of poems titled "Divan-e Hafez" in Persian.
As every page has a poem, you can use my_key's method of "the whim of tomb", which is very common in Iran, to open the book and find the answer to your question.

And there are other methods like that of the lovebird/parrot; or simply choosing one of the folded papers like what you see in the BBC photo. Each of them contains a poem you can't see before opening it.

Besides, now several websites and applications offer Hafez divination.

As I said before, many versions of the book, and all the folded papers I've seen so far, have interpretations under every poem; which are comparable to the commentaries written on the hexagrams' lines. In other words, they make the understanding easier for you, however the interpretation of a poem may differ in various versions & you have better to find your answer through the verses of Hafez.
[By the interpretation I mean what a poem can mean as divination. The literary meaning is another domain]

---------------------------------------------------------------
Now two personal experiences:

1) I was in a group journey, and one fellow was an attractive guy I had fallen for, but knew wouldn't turn to a good partner for me due to past experience: he repeatedly cheated on his partner, had tried to flirt with my best friend, etc. I found it very hard to resist him and was melancholic.

Just considered my feelings in the situation and asked the oracle of Hafez ; I received the ballad number 119 that begins with:

A heart that has insight, that owns the Cup of Jamshid;
why should regret the momentary loss of a jeweled ring?
Don't take your heart to the coquetries of beggars;
give it to a king-like lover who respects it.

2) I was lied to by two people. They had planned it together while I really trusted and loved one of them. I felt intensely hurt and decided to distance myself.

I asked Hafez, and received the ballad number 291 that starts like:

We have tried our luck in this city;
one has to get out of this abyss
I blame my self and sigh, to the point that
I set fire on my torn, flower-like body


Regards;

 

[IrfanK]

Besides, now several websites and applications offer Hafez divination.

Mary, thank you for your wonderful description and examples!

I googled around to find one of these websites you mention and came up with this one, if anyone feels like giving it a try:

https://www.hafizonlove.com/fal.htm

The gazal I received was:

Pour the red wine with control
Like rose-water into the bowl
While fragrant breeze will roll
And sweet incense refine

 

[charly]

@Charly; lovely question!

like the I Ching oracle, you first concentrate on the question or the subject you want to know about. Many people then read "Fatiha" for Hafez ...

Hi Mary:

Could you quote some of the more usual formula of ritual innitiation for asking Hafez?

As I said before, many versions of the book, and all the folded papers I've seen so far, have interpretations under every poem; which are comparable to the commentaries written on the hexagrams' lines. In other words, they make the understanding easier for you, however the interpretation of a poem may differ in various versions & you have better to find your answer through the verses of Hafez ..

Are you talking about Divan versions prepared for divinatory use?

Is there some literary version considered canonical? I suppose you use a persian book but what english version would you recommend?

I suspect the accuracy of versions that are presented as being dictated by Hafez himself in good english poetry to the ear of translators who do not know the persian language.

I don't distrust the saint be able of speaking in english. But, if Apollo in ancient Greece expressed himself in poor quality greek verses, wouldn't Hafez have preferred to dictate in prose?

I'm looking for complete modern english translations of Divan, but only found in public domain some made a century ago or even more. (1)

1) I was in a group journey, and one fellow was an attractive guy I had fallen for, but knew wouldn't turn to a good partner for me due to past experience: he repeatedly cheated on his partner, had tried to flirt with my best friend, etc. I found it very hard to resist him and was melancholic.
Just considered my feelings in the situation and asked the oracle of Hafez ; I received the ballad number 119 that begins with:

A heart that has insight, that owns the Cup of Jamshid;
why should regret the momentary loss of a jeweled ring?
Don't take your heart to the coquetries of beggars;
give it to a king-like lover who respects it.
...

Are those verses placed at the begining of the poem or were chosen by you according to the context you've asking?

Did yourself render it in english? If not to whom does it belong?

Going to the meanings: I don't know what is "the Cup of Jamshid", but a cup is everywhere a Feminity Symbol, Say, too much woman.

A "jeweled ring" is a metaphor for unconvenient commitment, like "a golden cage", an oppressive relationship, a maybe handsome appearance but lacking of love.

Paraphrasing: You, who have escaped the sufferings of a jail, do not fall into the trap of resentment. Instead of regretting it, better look for a true lover that deserves your heart.

Dicard "king-like" it only wants say "good", everyone knows the kind of love that these guys, the kings, usually give to their wives. It's said even in the Changes.

I owe you some more questions, comments on the divination by parrots and a reflection on Divan 291.

Of course, you will always have the last word.

All the best,

Charly
______________________
(1) One of those "The Divan of Hafiz: Edition of Complete Poetry" is available for parcial preview in Google Books.
Ch.

 

[IrfanK]

@charly, I hope Mary will quickly and firmly correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that Hafez is the only poet whose work is used for divination in Persia (although he may be the most popular). I think that Saadi's work is also used for similar purposes. At the very least, he is also similarly canonized. I think it would be quite likely that the vast majority of literate, educated Persians who have any interest in their own culture (and most of them are quite obsessively interested!) would have a copy of books by one or both of those poets.

I do have a work of Saadi's poetry buried somewhere on my shelves, but there is no way I could locate it quickly. Again, I think Saadi was less focused on matters of romance and love, and a little bit more on statecraft.

I remember a parable from his book, which I'm going to have to paraphrase from memory:

The evil king was suffering a crisis of conscience and asked his advisor how best he could serve his people. The advisor replied: "Sleep, O King! For it is only then that your people are free from your vile and tyrannical rule!"

Hard to see how he remained a trusted advisor for long.

Saadi's most famous quote, which again I think is inscribed on some big United Nations building somewhere, is as follows:

“The children of Adam are the members of one another, since in their creation they are of essence.
When the conditions of the time brings a member to pain,
The other members will suffer from discomfort.
You, who are indifferent to the misery of others,
It is not fitting that they should call you a human being.”

That's a fairly awkward translation, I've seen it done more nicely elsewhere, but at least it was something I could find on the net.

I would be very happy if Mary comes back to correct what I have no doubt is numerous errors in what I've written. It's all from memory from a trip many years ago, apart from that last quote.

 

[marybluesky]

@charly ;

Yes I'm talking about Divan versions. I don't know about the accuracy of English translations. Here you can find an article comparing them.
The usual formulas of asking Hafez are the ones I explained; and as I said, you can skip them and just think about your question.

I rendered the mentioned verses in my comment, and they were at the beginning of poems. I wrote the number of ballads so that you can find them, however it may differ in other versions.

The Cup of Jamshid is a cup of divination, which in Persian mythology was long possessed by the rulers of ancient Greater Iran. Having the Cup of Jamshid (Jaam-e Jam) is a metaphor for being aware of the mysteries of universe, going beyond what the eye sees; but also having a wealth, an inner one in particular.
The jeweled ring, here, is a symbol for the material wealth. Hafez means when you posses something as valuable as the Cup of Jamshid, why should you regret the temporary material losses?
Being king-like here means being noble.

The overall meaning: you have a big heart which is a valuable possession; so don't regret the loss of a mediocre lover who doesn't value it. Give your heart to a great person who respects it.

@irfan Saadi is another great Iranian poet, however his work isn't used for divination. Instead many of his phrases have entered the popular language and turned to idioms, metaphors, citations, ... .

Your translation is correct.

 

[charly]

@charly ;

Yes I'm talking about Divan versions. I don't know about the accuracy of English translations. Here you can find an article comparing them.

Hi Mary:

Thanks for the link to the article about english translations. There it is said, about the english version presented in the bilingual book that I have found in Google Books

The complete translation of the Dīvān by Lieut.-Col. H. Wilberforce Clarke (1840-1905) stands as an exemplum of the particularly graceless and dogmatic. A highly Sufistic interpretation, heavily interpolated with notes within the body of the literally-translated text, it offers a mass of unassimilated information, which obfuscates all the poetic qualities of its original.(Source: Enciclopaedia Iranica ).

A pity, Clarke was available in archive.org, The article left me little hope with modern translators, although...

... one honorable exception is offered by the translations of Gertrude Margaret Lowthian Bell (q.v.; 1868-1926). Her versions are still the most lucid, musical and accurate of the verse translations. (Source: Enciclopaedia Iranica )

Will try to find Lowthtan Bell.

The usual formulas of asking Hafez are the ones I explained; and as I said, you can skip them and just think about your question.

I asked because I am afraid that the ritual be very committed to the Islamic Religion and that a secular use of some formula could be interpreted as disrespectful

I rendered the mentioned verses in my comment, and they were at the beginning of poems. I wrote the number of ballads so that you can find them, however it may differ in other versions.

I suspected it from the beginning. The fact that you have translated it yourself may explain the relative ease of understanding. If one get a good book, even if maybe not complete, the lack of ballads' numbering is not a problem for using the book for consultation with Michael's method.

The Cup of Jamshid is a cup of divination, which in Persian mythology was long possessed by the rulers of ancient Greater Iran. Having the Cup of Jamshid (Jaam-e Jam) is a metaphor for being aware of the mysteries of universe, going beyond what the eye sees; but also having a wealth, an inner one in particular.

I was aware that there are not only linguistic knowledge problems but also cultural. I don't know why I thought the Cup Of Jamshid as something like a "Cup of Cups" meaning the more worthy inner gif wich is the CAPACITY OF LOVE that every one receives because we had a mother. Maybe I was excessively assertive but I always knew that any expression bears much more than a single meaning.

The jeweled ring, here, is a symbol for the material wealth. Hafez means when you posses something as valuable as the Cup of Jamshid, why should you regret the temporary material losses?
Being king-like here means being noble.

I cannot believe that somebody like Hafez could believe that every king or noble was GOOD. Maybe it happens like with the JUNZI in the Changes, the NOBLE in Wilhelm translation but a PERSON OF NOBLE CHARACTER for some modern Confucian writers.

A good lover for us is a TRUE LOVER, a lover WHO TRULY LOVES US. Of course, maybe hard to find because nobody's perfect!

The overall meaning: you have a big heart which is a valuable possession; so don't regret the loss of a mediocre lover who doesn't value it. Give your heart to a great person who respects it.

Sometimes happens that mediocre lovers can be good , kind hearted people, but in matters of love it is not always enough. Respect is essential, an abusive person cannot truly love.

All the best,

Charly

 

[IrfanK]

I asked because I am afraid that the ritual be very committed to the Islamic Religion and that a secular use of some formula could be interpreted as disrespectful

The invocation may be phrased with some references to God and the prophets, but on the whole, its surprising how little importance religion seems to have to most Persians. A lot of people seemed to be more focused on Darius the Great and the old history rather than Islam. And the people are generally really surprisingly secular and cosmopolitan. The only other two countries I've seen that are similar are Indonesia and Turkey. In all three countries, Islam is a tiny part of the peoples identity. Coming from a Sunni majority country, I was absolutely stunned to see some mosques in Iran that had fire motifs in the design -- a nod towards Zorastorianism. That would be unbelievably shocking in a Sunni country, where any friendly recognition of any religion or tradition other than Islam would be a grave sin. Persians have lots of traditions and rituals that don't owe much to Islam.

 

[marybluesky]

@charly ;

I don't think the Islamic rituals are important as I often don't use them while asking Hafez.

About the view of Hafez on the kings, I'm not an expert. However I know that being king-like here means being dignified.

I used mediocre in the terms of personality. The poem talks about the "coquetries of beggars", and in Persian popular language, a beggar isn't a merely poor person, but someone of low character who begs for compassion and takes others' money instead of working. The mediocre lover means someone who doesn't own his actions, an unreliable person who takes your heart.

Of course there are lots of cultural innuendos.

 

[marybluesky]

@charly

I write the Persian text. Maybe there are errors in my translation. You can find other translations elsewhere:

Ballad number 119:

دلی که غیب نمای است و جام جم دارد
ز خاتمی که دمی گم شود چه غم دارد

به خط و خال گدایان مده خزینه دل
به دست شاهوشی ده که محترم دارد

​

Ballad number 291:

ما آزموده‌ایم در این شهر بخت خویش
بیرون کشید باید از این ورطه رخت خویش

از بس که دست می‌گزم و آه می‌کشم
آتش زدم چو گل به تن لخت لخت خویش
​

P.S: I just found this forum where the poems of Hafez are posted with English translation. You can find the above ballad in the link.

 

[charly]

@charly
I write the Persian text. Maybe there are errors in my translation. You can find other translations elsewhere:
...
P.S: I just found this forum where the poems of Hafez are posted with English translation. You can find the above ballad in the link.

Hi Mary:

Thanks for the persian transcription, but persian is worse than chinese for me.

I could not enter into the forum you've posted to see the translations, the site that posted Irfan for divination gives english rendering of some complet poems bat not all the Divan and the book that I've found lacks of numbering, at least in english.

But I have other doubts mainly about divination using LOVE-BIRDS. I believe that street diviners don't use all the Divan but only a narrow selection containing a few poems, I wonder if those poemes were complete or a sort of summary for each one.

May the first verses be considered a sort of summary for the whole poem? the most meaningful? Maybe the lasts as a sort of moral?

Parrots are sociable people who enjoy living as a couple, preening, delousing or doing other demonstrations of mutual affection. Like other animals they need a safe habitat, a refuge to retreat to and, in their relationship with humans, they need a bond of care and love. However, in images such as the one from the BBC it would seem that they lack minimal conditions of well-being, a wide and safe cage to retreat to, freedom to come and go, a couple to talk, an owner who cares for and loves them.

All the best,

Charly

 

[marybluesky]

@charly ;

I agree about the poor condition of keeping the birds. The method is less common these days.

The first verses aren't the most important ones. That said, they often reflect the poem's over-all theme. As far as I know there are no rules saying what verses are important.

The street owners don't use all the poems. In my opinion, you don't need all the poems to consult the oracle of Hafez. You want an answer to your question which can be found in a paper among, say, 50 ones. Of course it may not satisfy someone who wants to ask the complete Divan & that's OK.

The Divan is basically a book of poems, not a system like the I Ching. The people have more freedom in reading & interpreting it as an oracle.

 

[charly]

Turning to Hafez​

THE ART OF FIGURAL CALLIGRAPHY​

by Jila Peacock
I was born in Tehran to an English mother and Iranian father, and, although English was my mother tongue, my first written language was Persian, which I studied from the age of seven at my Iranian primary school. I remember being introduced at that time to snippets of Ferdousi in my first textbooks, to Sa‘di, my father’s favorite poet, and Edward Fitzgerald’s translations of Khayyam, which my mother would always recite by heart. My introduction to Hafiz came much later in life.
After reading the 81 poems of the Dao de Jing on a working visit to China as a young doctor in 1977, I became interested in the ideas in these teachings of “emptiness” and “oneness of all things.” Naturally I found myself seeking out similar universal ideas in Persian mystical poetry, and more than any other poet, reading the ghazals of Hafiz of Shiraz became my quest. At a family gathering after my father’s funeral, I asked my Iranian cousin Behnoosh to do fālgīrī for us by selecting a poem from Hafiz’ collected works, or Divān. fālgīrī, meaning fortune-telling or divination, here specifically refers to divining by means of the poetry of Hafiz, which is the most popular form of divination in Persian culture.
The poem that was “given,” number 172, happened to be a well known favorite and ten years later became the poem from which I made the image I call the “Perfumed Deer.”
What is astonishing about Hafiz’ work is that it can be interpreted in so many different ways. This is because his creative use of symbol and metaphor, internal rhyme and repetition, makes the meaning metamorphose with each new reading, giving a sense of the poem hovering, just beyond the reach of reason.

Source: Sufi Journal

May follow reading the complete article by Jila Peacock in Sufi Journal

Ch.

 

[chingching]

After reading a few I feel like I need to start drinking wine, maybe that's all one ever need do?

 

[IrfanK]

After reading a few I feel like I need to start drinking wine, maybe that's all one ever need do?

That reminds me of the story of the poor, uneducated, bumbling Russian who was employed by a Japanese company run by old fashioned Japanese aesthetes and made to participate in their incomprehensible rituals. One evening, they were sitting around, drinking sake, spontaneously composing haiku. He suddenly rebelled and shouted out: "What need have we to compose poetry when there are stars in the sky and sake to drink?"

All the post-samurai Japanese gentlemen stared at him in amazement and broke into loud applause, unanimously agreeing that his contribution was by far the best of the night.