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Should I Leave My Country? 20.5> 23

marybluesky

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Almost everyhing that made me fond of my environment & society has faded. A few things aside, I'm standing on zero point.

I'v always been clashing with this traditional society, fighting a day-to-day battle. Now I don't see any way I can live the life I want here.

I asked should I leave my country? And got 20.5>23
Obviously 23 shows the context of leavetaking. 22.5 indicates examinig my life. There's no mistake, but no encouragement, either.

I then asked: can I live a satisfying live in my current environment? and got 52.2.5>57.
52 is about "not seeing your people", line 2 says I can solidify my position but not rescue the others. No idea about line 5. All in all, sounds like doing my thing & not caring much about others.

What so you think?
 

radiofreewill

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Hi marybluesky,

"Should I leave my country?"
20.5 to 23 ~ You are ready. Watch for the right time to leave.

The judgment says that you are between the ablution and the sacrifice in a space of holy readiness. The image suggests that it is time to consider visiting the regions of the world and instructing the people (teaching?).

Line 5 is often symbolic of a person of influence. In this case, perhaps a sponsor that you know in a host country?

"Can I live a satisfying life in my current environment?"
52.2.5 to 57 ~ You will feel estranged and stifled in your expression, but it would be agreeable in the long run.

Line 2 says that the traditional family path doesn't excite you, and line 5 suggests that being discreet about your feelings is the wise way to deal with your frustration.

So, all in all, I see encouragement to at least discreetly survey the possibilities? Who knows, if you find a sponsor and a program of employment in a host country, then the time might be right to leave, at least for a while?

I hope this helps!
 

my_key

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I asked should I leave my country? And got 20.5>23

Hex 20 asks you to take a real good look at yourself to discover what it is you really seek. The best practice advised for the Noble One is to really observe the real people (Of your country? perhaps either your inner or your outer world) and then these new discoveries will provide you with the insights you need. Through this you will be taught the things youneed to know. Remember, your country has made you who you are and maybe it is just old habits or old ways of thinking that you need to strip away. When you have deeply reflected on your relationships, with yourself and with your country, and all that it has given birth to (20.5) then you will know more clearly the answer to your question.

Here their is real encouragement. It is for you to deeply and truly reflect on the matter before making any decision to leave.

I then asked: can I live a satisfying live in my current environment? and got 52.2.5>57.
Hex 52 alludes to creating a calmness within yourself - utilising the stability of the twin mountains. The Noble One is encouraged to maintain a reflective approach to life staying centred in the stability of their inner calmness. Not engage in wild imaginings but to take one small step at a time and savouring each step.

52.2 - Your 'heart is not glad' as you feel compelled to follow the urgings of a part of you that is unsettled. Even if you follow these urgings you cannot guarantee that you will be able to rescue your situation.

52.5 - The words that are coming into your head are making a powerful case however if you are able to still this stream of thoughts, to bring some order into your world, then your cause for sorrow will disappear.

Hex 57: Allowing that still small voice within, that is currently being shouted down, to be heard will move you towards recognising what it is that you need to live a satisfying life. And it might even be that with that information tucked under your belt you could lead a satisfying life anywhere.

........or it may mean nothing like this at all for you.

Good Luck
 

marybluesky

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52.2 - Your 'heart is not glad' as you feel compelled to follow the urgings of a part of you that is unsettled. Even if you follow these urgings you cannot guarantee that you will be able to rescue your situation.
That's why I'm hesitant. I've followed such urges in the past without finding satisfaction, felt like just escaping.
 

Topher

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52 is pretty much describing how you feel being in a standstill you havent really moved and it has caused little to no influence to your current emotional fulfillment...

the question you should ask?

If I stay where in my country can I fullfil what really makes me feel whole?
If I stay in my country will I feel whole?
if I move will I fulfill whar makes me feel whole?
if I move where should I go?
 

rosada

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20.5 Absolutely! It's time to see the world!

52.2 If you stifle your urge to travel...
52.5 You'll have no stories to tell.

23. Means Splitting Apart and 57. Gentle Penetration means Trying to Fit In.

Perhaps rather than thinking you must pull up stakes for all time (23) you should consider that AFTER having a bit of adventure you'll be able to come back with a new perspective and experiences to share and this helps you to be able to be yourself more, to bring your vision to the group (56. The Traveler leads to 57. Gentle penetrating).
----
 
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my_key

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Mark Twain wrote: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
Loving life is easy when you are abroad. Where no one knows you and you hold life in your hands all alone, you are more master of yourself than at any other time. — Hannah Arendt
I can’t think of anything that excites a greater sense of childlike wonder than to be in a country where you are ignorant of almost everything. Suddenly you are five years old again. You can’t read anything, you have only the most rudimentary sense of how things work, you can’t even reliably cross a street without endangering your life. Your whole existence becomes a series of interesting guesses. — Bill Bryson
1624037239979.png
 

dfreed

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I asked should I leave my country? And got 20.5>23
Hex. 20 is called 'Contemplation" and "Observing". It has trigram (three line figure) Earth below, and trigram Wind above, with the 5th line moving to Mountain (upper trigram of 23).

These describe your desire to have a more caring and real (Earthly) setting or environment, which fuels your search (Wind) for such a place. But with Wind becoming Mountain, the advice is stop, or slow down - to first take time to contemplate this move - and your desire to move.

Wilhelm's 20.5 is - Contemplation of my life, superior man is without blame.

Rutt's 20.5 is - Observing (the, or your) victims. For a prince: no misfortune.

In both cases, I get a sense of 'wherever you go, there you are'. Maybe, the superior or princely (or princess-ly) way of being is to first closely observe, and look at our situation and this may lead us to change where we live, ... or to instead change ourselves or our attitude - even if we stay in place.

As Wilhelm says of Hex. 23 - 'It does not further one to go anywhere'. Or it may not if we don't take time to first observe and contemplate what it is that's really making us victims.

Best, D
 
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marybluesky

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People,

My life is no fairy-tale. I'm in no conditions to travel in the world, I don't have money nor companions.

By leaving country I meant immigration.
 

Liselle

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I guess one thing is you'd have to know where to go to, you'd have to know where the perfect spot where you'll be happy is. Do you?
 

marybluesky

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I guess one thing is you'd have to know where to go to, you'd have to know where the perfect spot where you'll be happy is. Do you?
I don't know where I will be happy. Logically I should choose a country which offers me work: whether a French-speaking one- as French language is my field- or somewhere I can work with this skill.
 
L

legume

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should I leave my country? And got 20.5>23
i would read this as Yi supporting the idea of leaving. sounds like something you want and there's no blame to it. change of the environment would possibly bring with it broadening of perspective.

i wouldn't focus on the words of 23 here, to me it's more like a generic background or context for the reading, either you feel like splitting apart or the leave would require breaking ties in some way, or you're just at a stage of finding your own path.

can I live a satisfying live in my current environment? and got 52.2.5>57
i feel 52.2 says you won't be happy where you currently are and 52.5 might mean being somewhere where you need to mind your words. doesn't sound satisfying. not sure about 57 though.

it's definitely a huge and a difficult decision to make especially in times like these and cannot imagine what it would take to actually make such a move on your own (i'm an immigrant myself but only moved within the borders of the eu and initially with my then partner which made it so much easier). having said that, you speak many languages and you already have probably quite an impressive job experience, which tells me you have more than a good chance of building a satisfying life somewhere (some of my family members moved to the US when i was a kid and it wasn't easy but by now they're all happily american and satisfied with their life overseas). probably too big of a decision to leave it to Yi but whatever you decide i'll be rooting for you :)
 

redoleander

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hi marybluesky!

I relate to this post; I have felt this many times. my personal inclination is always "yes! go!" so it's always interesting when my sense of the reading is so different from that, as it is in this case. To me, your readings call for stillness, acceptance, and reason. I don't think there's a judgment on whether or not this will ever be possible, it doesn't seem to say jump up and go.

20.5 puts it back on you. In the simplest and purest reality of things, what is actually possible? And what is your impact on the situation in the form of thoughts, perspectives, and actions? I always feel this line puts it back on me saying "Look at where you're at and how you contributed to that. Be honest about what you are doing right or wrong."

52.2 actually made me wonder what is in motion around you or in your mind that feels inescapable or too late to alter. Do you think it could be possible that because you believe it isn't possible to be happy where you are, you can't be? Again, I really relate to this feeling and I'm sure you have incredibly valid feelings. 52.2 also just seems a bit of a runaway train and I'm curious what that train might be.

52.5 does seem to be about getting clear within yourself, maybe in the wordless, pure center of your existence. Perhaps debating, list-making, readings, pros and cons simply aren't helpful in this situation. It might be necessary to sit tight, in stillness and/or acceptance of what is, without jumping to usual reaction or coping mechanisms. Maybe trying new responses will also bring about new thoughts, ideas, or possibilities?

I also wondered if you feel trapped by anything you said or claimed in the past? If anything like that has made you feel confined in your community?

I don't personally read this as strongly advocating for you to move but it does feel like the reading does not want you to be unhappy and therefore suggests you create the opportunity to look deeper at habitual beliefs and responses. (Sometimes that's such a frustrating answer honestly! Although probably more frustrating to stay in the same loop, especially if you cannot actually change your situation just yet.)
 

rosada

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20.5-23 Seems to say you're looking at your life where you are now and feeling there is nothing for you in your current location. It doesn't tell us whether moving would be an improvement, only that you don't see staying where you are as being productive. Maybe 20 is also saying you need to look into this more - where you move to would certainly make a difference.

52.2.5 - 57 Seems to say keeping still, staying where you are, can lead to eventually feeling you fit in. Doesn't say whether you should stay or go, only that you'll eventually be okay if you stay.

Maybe ask "What should I focus on, appreciate, where I am right now?" When my first husband was alive we lived in the mountains. I felt isolated and bored and after he died I immediately moved. Now that I live in a town, I realize how easily I get distracted and rarely practice the piano which had been my only entertainment when I lived in the mountain house. I now wish I'd been more appreciative of that opportunity to practice when I had had few distractions - imagine how much better I'd be able to play today! Maybe there is something in your current location it would be good for you to experience/ learn more about while waiting for the next door to open.
 
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D

diamant

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should I leave my country? 20.5 > 23
For me this usually plays out as "I examine myself, fault doesn't lie with me, something outer needs to go/end". So I would say yes. Having emigrated myself, I know it's tough, but in some cases staying put is worse. French-speaking country sounds like a great idea. If I had to pick between France and Belgium, I'd go for France bc someone I know emigrated to Belgium and life there is super complex, public services are chaotic, and it rains pretty much all year round.

can I live a satisfying live in my current environment? 52.2.5 > 57
Because of who you 'follow', you can't be happy. Even if you correct something in yourself, the other person is set on a destructive path - this can't be helped. 52.5 is wanting to talk but can't, having to keep your mouth shut. 57 shows (also) obedience. Doesn't sound like a satisfying life to me either, and you've told us for long things are just really bad where you are.
 

BaronAsh

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20 depicts a high tower from which one can survey a territory and from which one can also be seen. There is a quality of developing clarity of view. And this is before action so there might be a sense of pausing before a plunge, taking stock.
The upper trigram Wind has to do with gently penetrating into situations, working with detail step by step patiently and steadily. But here it is unbalanced and the hint is to apply the stillness of Mountain, which also has a sense of perspective but whilst remaining rooted in Earth, which also happens to be the lower trigram in this hexagram making the derived hexagram, 23.

Splitting Apart (Wilhelm's translation) has to do with paring things with a knife, so I prefer translating it as 'peeling away' or 'stripping' or even 'shedding.' Once I had a dream of a man in a tribal situation centuries ago somewhere sitting on a stool surrounded by a circle of elders. He may have been their leader giving instructions, or someone delivering a report to the elders, or someone being cross-examined. The hexagram 23 arose in response to that dream, so I often think of 23 as 'examination' or 'enquiry' through peeling away layers of obfuscation or confusion to come to the inner core. The top yang line, which naturally likes to rise, will leave and a yin take its place leading to #2, Earth. (Hmm...., your country perhaps?) There is also a sense of not moving, both with #20 and #23. You have to develop a clearer view and understanding. This is like doing the ablutions or cleansing before the sacrifice. The initial purifying phase is like creating a clear, clean open and sacred space within which the later ritual will take place. Without first preparing the ground that way, any such ritual will be useless. Before leaving a country, one has to sort through a lot of issues first so that any such move is well envisioned, well ordered and ultimately beneficial.

So I would say that before coming to any decision, it would be good to thoroughly and patiently examine the whole situation, both inner and outer, including stripping away any surface bark covering over the pith deeper within.

Interestingly, your second throw is Double Mountain and Double Wind, echoing the upper trigram (Wind) and its change partner (Mountain) in the previous throw. So it seems that you are just getting further in-depth guidance about how best to go about realizing 20-23. I take this as a sign that this enquiry is important and worthy. Your throws are resonating extremely well. So whether leaving or staying ends up being the chosen approach, the process involved in determining the preferred path forward is well worth treating with respect and will yield a harvest of further wisdom.

#52 is the hexagram of meditation, stillness. Interestingly, it also implies breaking free of physical restraints weighing you down; when you still the body and chattering mind, the spirit can soar free of the concerns weighing it down, just as a prisoner in deep contemplation will no longer be contained by the bars confining him. The second line involves perhaps immediate friends and family, and the fifth perhaps leadership or wider politico-societal trends at play in the speech realm, but in both cases the underlying recommendation is to just sit with these things, not moving like a mountain.

What it may develop into, or what is within, is #57, the Gentle Wind. Some sort of patience, acceptance, working with detail, penetrating into the roots and bones of any given situation.

To me this reading suggests that the current discontent provides an opportunity for deep self-reflection. This must be undertaken so that all surface chatter and niggling discomforts are penetrated through gently and thoroughly. After that, you will have a clear, and hopefully broader perspective, with which to consider what next should be done.

A short tip on meditation: just as this #52 description implies holding the body firm in order to let the spirit free, there are always two sides to it, a yin and yang. On the one hand there is holding the body still whilst paying attention, being awake; on the other hand there is a quality of relaxation, letting go, being spacious. If you over-emphasize one side at the expense of the other, you end up with some sort of extreme, or unbalanced, approach. Being able to do both is what will allow the Keeping Still guidance to develop which is what is recommended in the upper Mountain trigram to balance #20's Wind. So by just sitting still with what is swirling around, with any difficult outer situations or inner turmoil and chatter, some sort of clarity can develop along with inner stillness and acceptance. Doing this always involves both holding steady whilst at the same time letting go. Both aspects are needed together.

This is just my own take on your throw and may have no resonance for you at all, which is of course totally fine. All best.
 
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redoleander

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Diamant's comment really makes sense to me. I think that I was misreading 52.2.5; sometimes it really is that the situation is oppressive and it's nothing to do with how we think about it. Of course that always plays some part but it's not fair to put so much on yourself. That interpretation definitely seems like a valid way to view things and if things are that challenging where you are I do really sincerely hope you are able to leave for a place that's better for you! I hope you'll keep us posted as you see fit.
 
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marybluesky

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As I've started researching about immigration programs, I came back on this thread. I particularly consider studying in European universities with translation-related programs in French language.

That said, I got 22 again about moving- unchanging this time. I asked about different programs & while I don't remember all cast, no answer was very encouraging. They weren't forbidding either.

On the other hand, I worry about my future if I don't/can't immigrate, and the I Ching's answer about my worry was 64.2> 35- hold on for the moment. I got 64 a lot in my recent conversations with the I Ching about the fear of future.

The essence of the initial casts seem to persist. I find the comments very to the point, I understand them better now that when I posted this thread.
 

Olga Super Star

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Hi Mary, 23.5 is supppsed to be the only encouraging line of 23!
Plus you are so young, it’s almost always a good move to go around and explore a bit (you lose enthusiasm when you get to 40).

So I would encourage you to go 🤗
 

marybluesky

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Hi Mary, 23.5 is supppsed to be the only encouraging line of 23!
I received 20.5> 23 Olga.

To be honest, the main reason I think about immigration is, as I said in my first post, the lack of happiness where I am. Otherwise, I'm not enthusiastic about living in a foreign land with no family, friends, maternal language, where you must work really, really hard all the time. I've never been.

Independence is a matter, and having no one to turn to is a whole other thing. In modern world everyone is expected to be totally independent. But I experienced living alone last year in Covid days, in a low mood, when everything was upside-down & I couldn't count on anyone, at least mentally. I'm supposed to enjoy it as an adult, but I don't. Felt like solitary confinement. Maybe I could manage it better wasn't I depressed.

I've been financially independent & try to improve my situation, however so much emphasis on being financially "productive" bothers me. I find it offensive, as it reduces people's value to the amount of money they "produce". Consider housewives, girls who prefer home life, why should these people be shamed just because they don't make money? Financial independence is good, but the mental pressure that induces you are worthless if you don't make money isn't. I'm sure the industrialism supports such a culture.

Why I write all this? Because as an immigrant, chances are I should be totally independent & work my a$$ off. But I call it an imbalanced life.
 

Olga Super Star

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I received 20.5> 23 Olga.
:paperbag:
I have had little sleep I am afraid!

20.5 is one of those two lines I rarely understand together with 20.6
Without mistake, yes. A few times it has reassured me of being on the right side. But related to a moving, I am not sure.

In modern world everyone is expected to be totally independent.

Why I write all this? Because as an immigrant, chances are I should be totally independent & work my a$$ off. But I call it an imbalanced life.
I understand and agree that money is the measure of everything today. Yet what is the difference between being in your country or in another one? You would still have to work!
Friends are easy to make especially at your age. Family you may be visiting perhaps?

I know it's not easy.
The only thing I can say is, if you are thinking about leaving because you are depressed, depression will be already there when you get to your new place.

IT is also true that some places are more inspiring and creative than others. But a healthy person is supposed to fin herself at ease wherever she goes to.
Perhaps. I don't know, it's hard stuff to discuss in this tremendous heat. I can't almost think clearly.

I am upset it's not 23.5, that would have been such a cool line to get :rolleyes2:
 

marybluesky

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But a healthy person is supposed to fin herself at ease wherever she goes to.
It's obvious why depression will get worse & I shouldn't leave in a depressive mood.
I'm not that type of healthy person: I can't fit well in all groups & work-places, let alone communities.
 

Olga Super Star

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That sounds familiar but I like to think it’s just because we haven’t found similar folks 😉
 

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