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heylise

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This discussion was started at
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/1181.html?1069531734

In 27 and 28 I think the correlation both between 27.2 - 28.5 and 27.5 â?? 28.2 is very clear (it is to me, maybe not to anyone else). In 27.2 the canon, or the regular path, is rejected, One takes a road which is different than what people usually do, or think fit. Don't shout it from the roofs. In 28.5 an unusual combination. There is no praise, no blame.
27.5 has also the rejection of the canon, and in 28.2 also the unusual combination. In 27 settling is auspicious, and my own explanation for 28.2 (without yet combining it with 27.5): find someone with whom you can build a life.

I will have to find out a lot. I have been busy making an animation (see the Gui-gua thread), and the qianyao had to wait. But I don't know if I should get the credit. Karcher uses it in his Total I Ching. I knew there was a correlation, but Karcher has given it extra emphasis.

LiSe
 

heylise

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Oh well, I think I found the square myself. Combining the qianyao and the fanyao.
So gimme this credit, love it!!

LiSe
 
C

cheiron

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Kevin bows deeply toward LiSe - with a small impenitrable smile of credit being given.
biggrin.gif


zen2.gif


Thanks LiSe

Love the animation too.
 

heylise

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I am not sure how it is with the hexagrams you mention: Opposite (Pang Tong) pairs 01, 02; 27, 28; 29, 30; 61, 62. They might each be its own inverse (and then there are actually 72 hexagrams instead of 64) See
"An old Yijing mystery solved" at http://www.biroco.com/yijing/scan.htm#note2 and the scans at http://www.biroco.com/other/scans/ztddivision601.jpg and
http://www.biroco.com/other/scans/ztddivision762.jpg

Much to find out.

LiSe

Kevin, I owe my happiness to someone like you. A male nurse in an asylum, who made a young man realize how he could stay in his own power, master over his own life.
So I am the one who is bowing, in great gratitude.
 
C

cheiron

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LiSe

I will treasure those words and will continue to strive to become deserving of them.

As you know I am at a turning point and seek to find a way to establish a practice where such folk are empowered... and that we do not strive dull and enforce some norm. One day, in time...

Thanks for giving me a little more strength to move toward that time.

Humbly

--Kevin

(and now I will be quiet and learn from the thread you are developing)
 

Frankelmick

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LiSe,

I'd like to try to follow this thread. Can you help me to understand the concept of qian yao please?

In the thread that you refer to at the top of this thread, you said, "I thought "Qian yao" might be a good name: inverse lines. Corresponding lines of hexagrams which are each others inverse. Like 33.2 and 34.5."

So, in this case, lines from 2 hexagrams are qian yao if changing the qian yao line in one hexagram and then turning the resulting hexagram upside-down gives the other hexagram with the qian yao line changed.

Is that right? Seems to fit with 33,2 and 34,5.

Changing Hx 33 line 2 gives Hx 44. Turning Hx 44 upside-down gives Hx 43.

Changing Hx 34 line 5 also gives Hx 43.

But then, in this thread, you talk about, "...the correlation... between 27.2 - 28.5..."

This is quite different isn't it?

Changing Hx 27 line 2 gives Hx 41. Turning Hx 41 upside-down gives Hx 42.

Changing Hx 28 line 5 gives Hx 32 which is the Yin/Yang opposite of Hx 42.

So when you say, "Corresponding lines of hexagrams which are each others inverse", do you mean hexagrams which are paired in King Wen's sequence? Such as 33&34 or 27&28?

Best wishes,

Mick
 

heylise

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Hi Mick,
Not changing the lines!
Two hexagrams in the King Wen sequence, an odd and an even one, are usually each others inverse: 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 27 and 28. Draw one of them, mark one of the lines with a red pencil, and turn it upside down, then you can see the qian yao.
The qian yao can very often be recognized in their mutual meaning. So far I had no big trouble.
The fan yao are no problem at all, but then . . when I try to combine the four of them, then it becomes difficult to get it all together in my head.

A square is one line of a hexagram, with its fan yao, and both the first and the fan yao lines with their qian yao, four lines together.

For 33.2, 44.2, and 34.5, 43.5 I found the common theme of how to handle "having", not only of objects, but also of people, assets, ideas. Anything one can lay a claim on, or leave free and enjoy it as such, or hold on to it for safety or whatever.

I began with several others, but I have to concentrate, and at the moment there are so many different things, which ask lots of attention too, that they escape my mind all the time. Like little animals running in all directions. Somehow keeping an eye on three things is natural, but four is tough.


LiSe
 

hilary

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I can just about manage cross lines/ qian yao, pairs, steps and all in readings, though they come out very long, but a square for every line is just too much for one head. This one, that is: LiSe's has more capacity! (You may have lost one small animal, though: 27-28 are opposite rather than inverse.)

Stephen is busy house-moving or some such, but did drop me a fairly cryptic note for the page:

"A quick response is that in case of "symmetrical pairs" what I call canonical correlations (see Levi-Strauss) take precedence, ie 27.2 > 28.2, circulating through the fan yao 41.2 and 31.2, though other relations are certainly present: diagonal to the crosslines and vertical from inner to outer center in this case. The whole setup is indeed a square, with vertical, horizontal and diagonal relations. I think a very good model for this is the "square" Jung developed to talk about the aspects of "transference." "

It seems most natural to me to keep on turning things upside down: just as 3,2 and 4,5 are the same contour in the same landscape, only viewed from the alternate perspective, so are 27,2 and 27,5.
 

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