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Stubborn and silly? 23.2 > 4

Juliah

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The reading seems so discouraging that I have been hesitating about asking for your help, dear fellow seekers. :)

My question was about how one of my colleagues sees me, about his vision of me. My variants are below:

1) stubborn and silly (titled),
2) destructive and silly,
3) knowing that she (it is me) is not right but keeping pressing her position.

23 looks a bit fatal... What do you think?

Thanks in advance.
 

Liselle

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I agree it's not exactly a happy reading...

If it's any of the three possibilities you mentioned, are you surprised to hear it? I think I've gotten 23.2 sometimes to remind me that I already pretty much know the answer to the question I'm asking. Do you already suspect his opinion of you isn't good?

My own opinion is that it's sometimes helpful to confirm things with Yi so I know I'm not inventing something, but there are times when it's not. 23.2 might be Yi's way of saying that.

You might want to narrow things down a bit in your mind. Ask yourself "why" a few times, to help get to the heart of the issue. Keep going until you think you've reached the bottom.

Question (to yourself): "Why do I want to know how he sees me?"
Answer: "Because it's just something I should know."
Question: "Why?"
Answer: "Because we're colleagues, and it would help me know how to relate to him at work."

At this point you may have stumbled upon a more helpful question: "Yi, how can I work better with X?"\

Yi can tell you how someone else sees you - I remember one time I asked that question, and I got a very clear answer (which I didn't particularly like). But sometimes it ends up being more confusing, because it's not your mind and so you don't know how to interpret the answer. And sometimes it immediately begs another question, which maybe you could have asked in the first place, as in the above made-up dialogue.
 

Juliah

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Lisa, your advice is helpful and reasonable. Being confused with my previous cast I asked about his feelings towards me having in my mind that it would help me to understand 23.2. The answer was

48.1.2.6 > 37

It seems to me that I have missed something in 23... Something has slipped from me here.
 

Liselle

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But isn't "how does he feel about me" pretty much the same question as "how does he see me"? You're asking his opinion of you. I don't think that's a terrible thing to want to know, but if Yi was telling you with 23.2 that you already kind of know the answer, I think 48.1.2.6 is saying you're not making the best use of your well (source of information) by asking the same question twice. Those lines are about various ways wells can be neglected, damaged, or not used to their potential.

Try coming up with a different question. What is at the bottom of this? Why do you want to know? If you knew for sure that he thinks you're X or Y or Z, then what? What would you want to know after that? Try asking that question.
 

pocossin

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How does my colleague sees me?
23.2 > 4


The colleague sees you as one who is flawed and in need of correction. This is a false interpretation of appearances. Your are neither stubborn nor silly nor destructive. Give colleague time, and they will reform their views.
 

Tim K

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23.2 → 4
He sees you as someone lacking proper foundation/core. Childish and naive maybe, not constant in character.

48.1.2.6 → 37
Someone not realizing his full potential (lines 1 and 2), in spite of having a real talent (line 6).
Someone who needs more structure (37) to his character.

After reading Richmond, there is another outlook:
Someone separated(23) from his group(37), an outcast.
 

Juliah

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"Not constant in character" is a wording suitable for my colleague's character, not mine :)
 

Juliah

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I have been contemplating on the insights I got... A very strange situation for me, I must say. I know for sure that in my relations with this colleague I have found my core, perseverence, consistence and inner strength which are opposite to what is implied in 23.2. Moreover, he remarked my qualities. As if he sees me in a false mirror declining what he considered fine and important.

Searching for interpretations I came across two visions of 23.2, contradicting each other: perseverance brings misfortune/is required.

I feel entangled starting to realize that I am a kind of a "femme fatale" for him.
 

Liselle

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I feel entangled starting to realize that I am a kind of a "femme fatale" for him.

Interesting...that's something I would have associated with hexagram 44, I think. Have you ever gotten 44 in relation to him?

Actually, are you saying that's what you think 23.2 > 4 is telling you, or is it more of a general observation?
 

Juliah

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Yes. Not so long ago I got 44UC regarding him. He hoped we could have an intimate relationship. I declined this without qualms. I am absolutely sure that I was right then. I wondered what the IC thought about it all and I asked if I had behaved correctly in the situation of temptation - 44UC.

It has been a long time since that moment. I decided to ask about his vision of me as I still feel his cold shoulder. And I received 23.2.

Not a drama, rather a soap opera. It does not touch upon my work, fortunately.
 

Juliah

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Can it be true that 23.2 implies his hurt? But the hex 4? It looks like one of us or both do not realize something.

Anticipating "What did you expect having such a backstage?" I'll add something what seems important to me.

Even with such a back story I expected answer about my nature - if he considers me to be... . Yes, I make distinctions between a relation to a person and a vision of somebody's nature and temper (Lisa's response helped me do these distinctions). I can see a person as a coward but my relation towards him can be large hearted. Or I consider somebody to be very talented, but my relation can be negative due to many reasons. I may say 23.2. was very surprising to me. And not clear yet, sorry.

"You are flawed because you did not do what I wanted."
 

Trojina

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I've been reading this thread with dismay and holding off responding....because you can guess what I'm going to say......I don't think it's a very useful question. At best responses will be guess work about how someone else sees you.

Lisa said


Yi can tell you how someone else sees you - I remember one time I asked that question, and I got a very clear answer (which I didn't particularly like).

How did you find out it was a clear answer ? I mean how was the answer confirmed for you ? Did you check with the person or did following events make it clear ?


But sometimes it ends up being more confusing, because it's not your mind and so you don't know how to interpret the answer. And sometimes it immediately begs another question, which maybe you could have asked in the first place, as in the above made-up dialogue.


Exactly.....it is a confusing way to find clarity on a relationship I think. Yes it begs other questions.



What is your purpose with the question Juliah ? I imagine you need to know how to respond to him ? then why not ask that ? If you ask that you will inadvertently get an idea of his position to you anyway.


I couldn't and wouldn't attempt to read his thoughts about you since it would be futile guess work. If you want to know his thoughts you need to go to him to find out.

I think you are getting hopelessly lost by following others guesswork about what he is thinking.....and suggest you ask questions from your own POV. You are now making statements like this


"You are flawed because you did not do what I wanted."


....when you don't even know if he thinks you're flawed :confused:

This thread might help to formulate more useful questions ? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...42-Blog-post-Advice-for-relationship-readings



oh and pre empting objections to my POV no I am not saying 'you cannot ask this', you can ask whatever you want....but you need to be cautious about completely believing what people tell you he thinks. They do not actually know, they are offering suggestions which may not be true in any way. Given this, you can't really go ahead and take it as a fact that he thinks you are flawed and so on, can you ?


Anyway I think you are getting more and more lost here and that this is a somewhat futile line of questioning. That's just my POV and also a caution because I fear you are leading yourself astray. You are getting into more and more complexities by assuming he has thoughts he may not have at all. I don't wish to stop you pursuing this line of thought, I'm just advising you that I that I think you are getting more and more lost here. You may feel you are gaining more and more clarity however and if that is the case then I'm wrong.....but I did feel the need to issue a precautionary 'danger ahead' sign when I saw how your thoughts are developing.
 
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Juliah

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I am really sorry for making you feel dismay, Trojina. Thank you very much.

It appears not to be my place here. It's high time I stopped.
 

Trojina

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Oh you weren't making me feel dismay at you.....but dismay at watching where you were heading with the reading. Doesn't mean you must stop, it's just my thoughts and a wish to say be careful how far you believe you know how he sees you. I didn't want to stop the thread....although I can see I might have had that effect. Do go on and feel free to ask what you wish......just keep part of your mind aware that in the end you can't be sure how he sees you. You may build up in your mind all these bad things you think he's thinking about you and that could harm your relationship.
 

Juliah

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Trojina, thank you for your words.

What I wanted here was to gain a better understanding of 23. My first thought was that he saw me as a person with a rotten core what is far from the truth, charitably speaking. Where did this come from? From his hurt only? I do not know. But I felt today that I should leave. I want to recover from temptation of mental speculations.
 

Liselle

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How did you find out it was a clear answer ? I mean how was the answer confirmed for you ? Did you check with the person or did following events make it clear ?

I think it was a combination of time passing, common sense, and the objectivity made possible by both of those. I just was able to see how I must have seemed to the person, and the reading Yi gave me fit with that. Sometimes it's helpful to have a confirmation from Yi, I think - hopefully then it's less likely you'll try to rationalize it or invent positive spins to put on it; just accept it and try to put it behind you. (This was not a romantic relationship in my case - I manage to act like an idiot in other areas of life as well, probably moreso...:bag:.)

I don't know. I think there are a lot of times you can't just ask someone, "How do you feel about me?" without seeming like a class A weirdo. There are often better questions to ask the I Ching, though. The "Five Whys" exercise might help find them.
 

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