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The Great Questions

C

cheiron

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Recent threads have led me to re-reflect on a project I have meant to start on for a long time.

That is seeking answers of the 'Great Questions' from the Yi Jing.

Examples:
Is there a God?
What happens after we die?
An explanation of fate destiny and self determination.

So I thought to ask (for openers)

Is it appropriate to pose these questions to the Yi?

Answer Hx.60 - No moving lines.

--Kevin
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
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Chuckle!!

Kevin,

If that's not a great example of Yi humor I don't know what is...
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IMHO, the Yi replied to you: yes grasshoper, you may ask, answers however you must seek for yourself...

Nice try!
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L
 
C

cheiron

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Shucks Luis

You are right!

But I missed the humour! LOL

I was just sitting here going 'oh, well... guess I'll have to wait'

Chuckles

--Grasshopper (chuckles)
 
C

candid

Guest
Yijing say, why you hassle me foxhopper with this question? What you do with answer if I tell you, huh? You put it in small container to place on your windowsill, and then you don't batha me anymore with GREAT questions! Okay I tell you but only so much because you will only be confused if I tell you more.

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C

cheiron

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Chuckles

So true Candid... even worse...

"So you gonna post it, huh... unsettle the hood yeah?

I'll tell you some but you won't get it... heheheheh"

--From the one who looks better than your sign off portrait.

tongue.gif


--Kevin

LOL
 

madversity

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hi. in my 20's i studied philosophy. i instictively shied from metaphysical questions since i "knew" they were beyond our reach as humans.

as i grew olderrr i learned that knowledge is not in our lot here in this time and place. as i grew even older i realized ive come to believe that this is what god meant by natural law.

what we have to work with isnt as assuring as the truth, but when we find it its just as real. im talking about belief. having been lucky enuf to study kabbalah, when i could still sit among ppl, i drew and drew from it until i had it...MY perspective, what i believe to be. there is no way i can "prove" my beliefs, but i dont need that. my beliefs guide and comfort me and nourish my growth....and theyre consistent too : )

just remember the onlything were privvy to r our thoughts and emotions, even physics or any other "exact" science r just a theory the "best" theory patented by science as " facts".

kevin i think u have all the knowledge and experience needed to give context and meaning to your questions. dare to believe in your self and your truths wil surface.

p.s. mayb h60 is nature telling u keep youre "knows", he he, he in your own business, dont cross lines meant to be kept, no shortcuts.

thank you for listening. tali.
 
C

cheiron

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Tali

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="0000ff">?knowledge is not in our lot here in this time and place. as i grew even older i realized ive come to believe that this is what god meant by natural law.

what we have to work with isnt as assuring as the truth, but when we find it its just as real.

just remember the onlything were privvy to r our thoughts
and emotions,

dont cross lines meant to be kept,
no shortcuts.</FONT></CENTER>

Thank you

zen2.gif


--Kevin
 
D

dharma

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i'm not sure that i agree with what everyone has said here except maybe Candid. mainly cause i often use the yi to ask BIG questions
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i can't imagine taking the above interpretations to heart as it would cut me off from one of the best sources i have for discovering the world around me
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anyway... my take on this hx60 as your answer is that, should you ask the really BIG questions be prepared for the fact that there is a limit to the possible exchange of ideas that can possibly take place.

not because yi is unable to explain, but because our present ability to understand the magnitude of the all-emcompassing answers, is limited (ie. insufficient iq levels, restrained intuition capacity, amount of the physical brain used, narrow belief systems, language restrictions, etc etc etc)

i personally would still do it fully accepting the fact that due to my limitations and smallness, in comparison to the nature of the questions, i won't quite be getting the whole picture... but that's precisely when i would just start a running dialogue and ask more questions
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C

candid

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I?m going to more earnestly reflect on the BIG questions question.

It is explained in 1.5 with the quote from Confucius: Things that accord in tone vibrate together. Things that have affinity in their inmost natures seek one another. Water flows to what is wet, fire turns to what is dry. Clouds (the breath of heaven) follow the dragon, wind (the breath of earth) follows the tiger. Thus the sage arises, and all creatures follow him with their eyes. What is born of heaven feels related to what is above. What is born of earth feels related to what is below. Each follows its kind.

The tiger moves in straight lines.
The dragon moves in circular lines or coils.

Life on earth is conditioned (60); we perceive in linear fashion, like the tiger.

But the spirit moves in circular motions; that is, nonlinear, like the dragon.

I agree with Tali on this one. It is what you make it, and what you believe becomes a manifestation of it. We can not comprehend it any other way.

Thus the kings of old sacrificed to the Lord. And built temples.
 

bradford_h

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So Kevin-
When you get the big questions answered you just gonna blab the answers to everyone like Candid did with the secret of the golden flower?
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b
 

bradford_h

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Candid-
You can't go giving THE ANSWERS to just anyone.
At least make em go through the initiation,
especially that thing with the goat!
b
 
C

cheiron

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Candid

Very nicely brought together
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"I?m going to more earnestly reflect on the BIG questions question....etc"

Sorry Brad... No goat's... Last time we tried that it took me half the day to get it out of the hedge. No Sheep either - we lost 'em.

Perhaps try Candid's Tiger? - Innitiates would have to be very eager to get the answers then eh?

Shucks - I'm going to publish anyway - Here is as far as I have got with the first big question. The answers are quite big too it seems:

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LOL

--Kevin
 

bradford_h

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Hey Leonard-
You better watch what you call Pedro
He's "sensitive" today
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lenardthefast

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Just did a Clarity site-search (Community) for the word 'ego'. There are only about a zillion discussions concerning the various member's leanings/arguments on this one. Here's one that even has the heading:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/1214.html?

I'd venture an educated guess that everyone on this site has one, at least the regular peeps that actually contribute now and then/continuously, possible exception; Lise. (Or, maybe she has a little, bitsy, teeny-tiny one.) Pretty small, though, I had to really USE the site search for that determination. ...and it's still just MY(notice the capital EGO, here)
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silly,oft-versed opinion!

Seems like we just can't turn away from THAT one. Thank the cosmos very much.
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Anyway, I agree with everything Dharma said about the subject.

When are you guys gonna get it? If you state your viewpoint here, YOU have one(or two, if your're like me!)

All of the above is just my humble, egotistic opinion, of course. Now, I think I am going to devote some time to meditating on my beautiful ego. (Ahhhh, this ego feels sooooooo good...sort of like a cashmere sweater, or, tight leather pants...I'm stroking it, and I, I, I,....Love IT!!

Namaste,
hex04.gif

Leonard
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Brad,

Yeah, I noticed that. I mean, the guy takes a vacation, comes back all testy. Whew, just when I thought it was safe to go in the water.....

SHARK ALERT!!!
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I am sorry for addressing you in Spanish versus Portegee, Pedro. I plead ignorance. Mea culpa, mea culpa!

Namaste,
tiger.gif

Leonard
 
C

candid

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LiSe:

"Is there a god?
Yes, there is
I made me one"

Such heresy wins the heart of god.

I believe
therefore I am two.

I am,
therefore.

C
 

cal val

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Pedro...

Thank you.

This is from an email I sent Monday night:

"I got 43.4 today...I know exactly what it's saying. And I listen when they tell me they're taking care of business, and I don't have to stress about anything. After it says you're being led like a sheep, it says but you will not hear these words or believe them. Ain't necessarily true. I don't know who threw that bit in, but it's only true for someone like __________ who doesn't believe his future is pre-determined.... so... I ignore that part. I DO hear the words. Every time they've said 43.4 and I've listened, everything turned out well at the very least..."

Alex...

I love every single word of your post. Thank you.

I came to this forum a devout atheist... and then... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/703.html?1055467317

I took that "dream" to heart, made it my reality, and it sure has made a difference.

Love,

Val
 

lenardthefast

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Dear Val,
Quote:
Ain't necessarily true. I don't know who threw that bit in, but it's only true for someone like __________ who doesn't believe his future is pre-determined....

Blank here, and the person who 'threw that in' was none other than some ancient Chinese sage, interpreted by Wilhelm and included in the printed text. Oh, and I think that unknown sage didn't believe in 'pre-determination' either; which is why he was interested in the Yi in the first place. But, thats just my humble opinion, of course. Since you obviously don't have a copy of Wilhelm, you naturally assumed that 'someone', just 'threw it in'. Well, I can't speak for any other 'Blanks' on the site, but, this 'one' always assigns credit to quoted sources.

Oh, and, I haven't felt the need lately to have any assistance in providing the info on what I believe and don't believe, thank you very much.

Namaste,
Leonard
 

jte

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Kevin -

"Dare to believe in yourself and your truths will surface."

That was from Tali, fyi. But reasonated with me, too.

It seems like along with answering day-to-day questions, the Yi teaches you things that relate to the big questions, too. Kind of like it wants you to learn those things or is designed in part to teach you about those things while you're asking it other stuff.

All -

Learning quite a lot from this thread and Clarity in general... some of it non-intellectually, too.

:)

- Jeff
 

cal val

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Leonard...

Hi there! I didn't say I don't have a copy of Wilhelm... hmmm very odd... where did you come up with that. I do. And I quote from it a lot. In fact, Leonard... where do you think I pulled that wording from?

And, fyi, you're not _________. You're not the one I had the discussion with. As a matter of fact, I hadn't thought about you in days... until your post just now. So how are you anyway?

Oh and regarding... "I don't know who threw that it in there..." That's my style... my humor. The recipient of the email knows that's my humor. Sends back LOLs. And that's what really matters... isn't it?

Love,

Val
 

lenardthefast

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Dear Val,

Whatever.

What I posted before still says all I have to say on the subject.

My apologies if I misinterpreted whoever your 'Blank' is.

I still don't think 'someone threw something in'. If that were the case, then why even read the book? Lets see, "I like this line, so, I'll take it on face value; but, this other line interferes with my belief system, so, I guess I'll disregard it?" Maybe OK for you, but, not for me.

So, I guess we disagree.

Namaste,
Leonard
 
C

candid

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fwiw

Predestination (or not) is also an ongoing debate within the Christian beliefs. I have to believe the thinking comes from the same quarter as the debate amongst Chingers.

I believe the answer is yes and no. Yes, when time is eliminated from the equation. No, within the confines of time.

Everything we've done, are doing and will do is written, so to speak, in the time logs - like Star Trek's Captain's log. But a century later, while events are still being logged, what was once future is now available in the present. From that reference point, the future ?was? predestined.

But in the present, the future is still fluid and changeable. From this perspective, nothing is predestined.

I believe that when we throw coins we bookmark our present into the timeless paradigm. From that perspective the future is now and already known.

C
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Candid,

Quote: "From that perspective the future is now and already known."

But, don't you think the Yi is giving us a peek at just one of many possible futures? I mean, we ask a question, toss the coins, and the Yi says, Ohhh, something like, Well, if you continue like such and such, you will experience this, but, on the other hand, if you follow this advice and CHANGE this/these thing/things, adopt this/these attitude/attitudes, etc., you will have the ability to CHANGE this future.

This seems to be a major part of what we discuss here on the forum; cast, interpret the cast and give advice to the castee as to what CHANGES the Yi has advised them to make in order to have a 'different' future.

I realize that in the previous sentence to the one I quoted, you, in essence, said what I am saying. I don't fully understand why casting the coins 'sets' the future, if that is what you are saying. And, if it is, back to first part of this post.

Am I making any sense here? Perhaps you could extrapolate. Being the 'most unwise' person on the forum DOES have it's disadvantages.

Namaste,
hex04.gif

Leonard
 

pedro

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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Brad: Hey Leonard- You better watch what you call Pedro. He's "sensitive" today
Leonard: Hi Brad, Yeah, I noticed that. I mean, the guy takes a vacation, comes back all testy. Whew, just when I thought it was safe to go in the water..... SHARK ALERT!!!<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

ouch, guys, I appologise if I was a bit abrupt yesterday, didnt mean to, honest. Actually I was never really gone, as my evil twin can verify
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(he's not around now, but he'll be soon)

Btw Brad, if youre not upset
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, what's that chinese thing you put up there? and that stuff about the secret of the golden flower, why cant I find Candid's blabbing anywhere?

Leonard: "I am sorry for addressing you in Spanish versus Portegee, Pedro. I plead ignorance. Mea culpa, mea culpa!"

Oh, never mind that, Im used to all you gringos thinkin portugal is some turist resort in spain or something
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But did you realize that what you said in spanish translates as "you're a stupid donkey and I want to kick your butt?"... I hope you guys would be more careful with us touchy latinos from now on! (Luis, stand with me on this, we gotta make a statement here)
 

pedro

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oh, and how could I almost forgot...

a big HI!!! back to all you gentle souls
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heart.gif

Its good to see you're all still having fun
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C

candid

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Leonard:

"But, don't you think the Yi is giving us a peek at just one of many possible futures?"

Yes. The future is conditional from the present tense. IE: often when there's more than one change line the future is still fluid, changeable and decidable.

I didn't mean that casting coins always "sets" the future, only that future knowledge includes the decisions we've made after we've made them. IE: as in a truly prophetic dream, or in a truly prophetic reading.

Time is in the claw of the dragon, but we perceive from the eye of the tiger.

Or to use a Biblical phrase, 'the natural man perceives not the things of the spirit, for they are foolishness unto him. (hex. 2)

Not so with with God because the dragon holds the future. (hex. 1)

C
 
C

candid

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If you are uncomfortable with the word God, just replace it with the word Spirit.
 

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