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The Image of Hexagram 50

el_2

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Dear Clarity friends

The latest answer I got from the Yi was hexagram 50 so I've been thinking a lot about it lately. I've always found the Image of the hexagram as one of the most fascinating parts of the Wilhelm/Baynes translation. But I've also found the actual meaning elusive. I couldn't quite get it.

So I did a search in this forum and what struck me was something Bradford pointed out. I've added it to my notes but I don't recall where exactly I found this. Anyway, Bradford points out that grammatically, the voice isn't passive, that is, 'solidifying' fate isn't happening to the Junzi. The Junzi applies correct placement or positioning to realize/manifest/solidify/consolidate Destiny/fate/higher purpose. Bradford calls this the deliberate act of an alchemist using some sort of foreknowledge of the outcome.

This got me thinking that the main point about the advice here is that one has to actively make one's 'fate'. Life isn't what is thrown at you; life is what you make it (although there are things that are outside of your control). But it is very important to realize that you play an active role in the whole scheme of things. In the overall context of the hexagram, you have to realize that you are the active agent in the process of transformation.

Do you think I'm reading too much into this?

(I also don't quite get the 'using some sort of foreknowledge of the outcome' part and the phrase really caught my interest).

el_2
 

bradford

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Think of it in terms of "culture as science."
Practical science puts things together with an expectation of the outcome.
Forget "letting it be" if we have "the courage to change the things we can."
We can make our world better, especially from noble positions.
We just have to nourish the things that we want to manifest.
Another example might be a Road Man of the Native American Church
preparing Peyote for a ceremony. This is high alchemy.
 
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meng

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Do you think I'm reading too much into this?

(I also don't quite get the 'using some sort of foreknowledge of the outcome' part and the phrase really caught my interest).

Not at all. I think you've said it well.

Consolidating fate by adjusting our position to what fate requires means changing ourselves to meet what fate presents. The camel passing through the eye of a needle image seems to fit here. It's going to require power of another kind.
 

el_2

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So it is actively engaging in the process of transformation but with a purpose in mind, an outcome you want to manifest and letting this vision of the outcome guide you along the way. You add things to your cauldron, some things you take out, you try different mixtures in order to manifest higher purpose or solidify fate or what have you.

It ties in with another comment of yours I've noted about the basic meaning of the hexagram; that it is about change by design.

It's the early hours of the morning in the part of the world I'm in and I'm sort of talking to myself now as I get more deeply into the meaning of the hexagram so, probably, this post adds nothing; it is superfluous.

But I'd like to take the chance to thank you Bradford because I always find your posts useful since you try to convey the meaning without straying unnecessarily from the original text. And in a succinct way. I get a lot of 'a-aha!' moments when I read your comments on a line or an aspect of a hexagram. I learn a lot from many other participants here in this forum, actually I could provide descriptions of what a lot of people here offer, but your comments always put things in perspective for me. Again, thank you.

el_2
 
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meng

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Looking at the lines, there's a lot of turning upside-down, drawing contempt, ear stripping, foot breaking, ear replacement and ring implant surgery.
 

bradford

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Looking at the lines, there's a lot of turning upside-down, drawing contempt, ear stripping, foot breaking, ear replacement and ring implant surgery.

A lot more maintenance than the well The universe really beats the
snot out of stuff that doesn't just go with the flow.
 

el_2

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Oh, hi Meng. It seems we were sending posts at the same time.

You give more balance to what I wrote. I was placing emphasis on our input because I think this was the part that eluded it me. But it is about the interplay between 'fate' and agency? And 'changing ourselves' as you said, the image talks about changing ourselves first and foremost, doesn't it? We should not forget this. It is not about manipulating 'fate'.

I'm thinking now that the image of hexagram 50, as a text, not as a particular answer to a particular question, conveys the thoughts of the authors of the Yi about the question of 'fate' vs. 'agency' (or 'structure' vs. 'agency' perhaps). Well, I realized that the moment I first read Wilhelm's words, but only now do I seem to begin to understand what it actually says.

I don't like 'fate' as a concept, that some things are fated to be or not to be, so 'fate' here to me is things we have no control over.

Thanks for helping me expand my understanding Meng.

el_2
 

el_2

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It is interesting to me that I got this hexagram as an answer at a time in my life when I've been feeling overwhelmed by lots of things and stagnant at the same time. I actually used the word 'stagnant' in my question and I got 50 as an answer, line 1 included. When the wording in my question is repeated in the answer (get ride of the stale stuff), I know that at least I've captured the basic problem. It wasn't something like 'what can I do to make my situation better' but more along the lines of 'what can I do to get out of this stagnant situation'. I also got line 4, so it's going to be hard but I am determined. I'm not quite sure how exactly I'll go about this process of changing things but I feel you have both helped me a lot because I think it was essential for me to understand the advice of the Image.

el_2
 

bradford

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On Fate, I think we have to grant that someone who really believes in it and so does nothing to change it is truly its subject or victim. The Chinese word Ming is usually the word translated as fate or destiny, and also the word translated Mandate, a decree of the king or heaven. To keep the option of self-directed behavior open, while at the same time trying to convey that it comes from something superior to ourselves, I found myself using the term "higher purpose," which for me covered the range of those possibilities without making us slaves.
 
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maremaria

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It is interesting to me that I got this hexagram as an answer at a time in my life when I've been feeling overwhelmed by lots of things and stagnant at the same time.
el_2

I can really relate to that !!! Same feeling, same hexagram. Interesting you used the word stagnant. I had it into my mind too. Things have change but still looks like nothing has change. It requires a respond to those changes and this is the difficult part. I see also the "chance for change" and the need to grasp that chance before it flew away. It puzzles me that stagnation, which is not really stagnation, imo. its feels that here we need to do more that we did in the past, it requires something more and also that we might walk in a more cautious way, in order to respond to the chance and not just react. Not sure though, i try to grasp 50 too nowadays.

I really like everyone thoughts here. Good thread !!!

Maria
 

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