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The more I read the more I am confused, please help. No 40 and No 35 Both Unchanging

Osenia

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Hello,

So I am one of those Iching users that get back to it only in the deep troubling times, yet through those my experience is slowly growing. I have prepared my Iching for the use by cleansing with sage and candle and embarked on asking about a recent break up with my long term partner (we broke up a few days ago and then he left on holiday, due to come back in a few days).

I have asked Iching (which I later realised was a bad question): What does he feel towards me? the answer was 35 unchanging.

Then to correct my wrong question I asked: What does he want from me? The answer was 40 unchanging.

Now our situation was that despite us loving each other a lot, I have been in a very negative state over the last years, very emotional and had difficulties to deal with my emotions, jealousy, possessiveness and all that comes from insecurities, eventually leading him to say "I can't deal with it anymore". Next day he left on holiday saying that he will make a certain decision when he is back.

I had a lot of time to think and really understood my wrong doings and I really want to work hard to change myself for the best. Now the 35 seems to implying that this break up will make us grow even more, strengthen the relationship? With 40 I thought it meant that he wants me to relax, forget and forgive of the arguments and I guess work on sorting myself out for the fruitful relationships to come? Also to free past mistakes, past attitudes and to get rid of them for us to be able to move on? Or is this just the positive readings that I was hoping to get?

I would really appreciate any insights into this. He is coming back and the end of the week and I am preparing an apology surprise and a talk ( somewhere it said it might be a good idea to write a letter with 40, so i will do a genuine talk).
 

freimuth

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Dear Marijan,
"What does he feel towards me? the answer was 35 unchanging". 35 is about someone who advances toward someone or something, and it looks as though your friend would be prepared to go at some length to meet you. With regard to 40 ("what does he want from me"?): 40 in the classical interpretaion is "The superior man, (who) forgives errors and deals gently with crimes". Taken together, this would appear to suggest that your friend will return to you with a forgiving attitude.
 

freimuth

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Dear Marijan,
"What does he feel towards me? the answer was 35 unchanging". 35 is about someone who advances toward someone or something, and it looks as though your friend would be prepared to go at some length to meet you. With regard to 40 ("what does he want from me"?): 40 in the classical interpretaion is "The superior man, (who) forgives errors and deals gently with crimes". Taken together, this would appear to suggest that your friend will return to you with a forgiving attitude.
 

Osenia

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Hi Freimuth,

Thank you so much for your help. These were kind of the interpretations I got initially from the hexagrams, yet when I started reading deeper into the threads analysing the hexagrams I got really lost in interpretations in relation to the questions. Yet with the question what does he want from me I am getting that he wants me to be forgiving and free of worries, taking things as they come rather then forcing them or is it he himself feels forgiving and free? Either way thank you for your interpretation here, it has made me quite relieved/relaxed - maybe this huge fight and break up going to take the relationship to the next level, does feel liberating somehow.
 

Osenia

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Hi Freimuth,

Thank you so much for your help. These were kind of the interpretations I got initially from the hexagrams, yet when I started reading deeper into the threads analysing the hexagrams I got really lost in interpretations in relation to the questions. Yet with the question what does he want from me I am getting that he wants me to be forgiving and free of worries, taking things as they come rather then forcing them or is it he himself feels forgiving and free? Either way thank you for your interpretation here, it has made me quite relieved/relaxed - maybe this huge fight and break up going to take the relationship to the next level, does feel liberating somehow.
 

moss elk

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Hello,
Now the 35 seems to implying that this break up will make us grow even more, strengthen the relationship?

You asked how he felt about you and got 35, The guy in 35 'goes it alone and improves things by himself'

About the 40, he wants Release from you or forgiveness. Hard to say which.
Maybe he would be happy with either forgive or forget.
 
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Osenia

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Hi Moss Elk,

thank you so much for your insights. I have been reading up a little bit on both hexagrams, yet I think 40 is the one I am still confused about. Also, it is funny you said "The guy in 35 'goes it alone and improves things by himself' " because it is literally speaking what he has done or is doing - he is away for a week to think through and decide upon the destiny of our relationship. Also, reading up on H 35 I found this, which I guess goes hand in hand with your interpretation:

"The inner Hex. of 35 is 39 (Obstruction) Water on top of a Mountain. An obstacle ... (an individual is confronted by obstacles that cannot be overcome directly) it needs time to overcome obstacles and can´t be forced"

I am right to think that the man in question needs/ed time for himself to overcome obstacles and that I can not force or do anything at this point?

I am trying to also read the two hexagrams and answers together, how they relate to each other in order to find the best way for me to approach this situation. I guess letting go is an underlying message here?
 

Osenia

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Hi everyone,

So the update from the situation here. I guess the hexagram 40 meant that he wants me to let go. I thought he was meant to come back today, but he messaged me saying that he will be back tomorrow and i had my flights tomorrow depending on how the break-up goes. But he said his time away made him sure of his decision to end the relationship and that he wishes for me to let go of him. It was all very clear and calm from his side. I wonder if that explains the readings more. I should be going back to my country tomorrow, but I am very afraid to do so and if the decision is right. So I cast the Iching again with the question:

Should I stay in xxx and wait for for X?

The answer was H30.6 -> H55

So all these hexagrams seem positive and this seems to indicate that I should stay and should spend time I guess with people that are kind to me (my friends) "allow yourself to be grateful for those who are in line with your efforts. Your light will be seen by them" - this is from the changing line. But why then if all these hexagrams are following out positive this situation seems to be so bad. I really don't see how would it be possible for us to live in the same flat we have after we broken up.

Please help me understand things here, Thank you so much!
 

Osenia

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Hi everyone,

So the update from the situation here. I guess the hexagram 40 meant that he wants me to let go. I thought he was meant to come back today, but he messaged me saying that he will be back tomorrow and i had my flights tomorrow depending on how the break-up goes. But he said his time away made him sure of his decision to end the relationship and that he wishes for me to let go of him. It was all very clear and calm from his side. I wonder if that explains the readings more. I should be going back to my country tomorrow, but I am very afraid to do so and if the decision is right. So I cast the Iching again with the question:

Should I stay in xxx and wait for for X?

The answer was H30.6 -> H55

So all these hexagrams seem positive and this seems to indicate that I should stay and should spend time I guess with people that are kind to me (my friends) "allow yourself to be grateful for those who are in line with your efforts. Your light will be seen by them" - this is from the changing line. But why then if all these hexagrams are following out positive this situation seems to be so bad. I really don't see how would it be possible for us to live in the same flat we have after we broken up.

Please help me understand things here, Thank you so much!
 

moss elk

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"allow yourself to be grateful for those who are in line with your efforts. Your light will be seen by them" - this is from the changing line. But why then if all these hexagrams are following out positive this situation seems to be so bad.

None of the readings were positive in the sense of pointing to reconciliation.

And the commentary you quoted doesn't make any sense at all to me for 30.6 (55). It is not from the line.

You've got things to do and plans to make now.
 

Osenia

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Hi MossElk,

I think I am looking for interpretation in bit bad websites, that simplify the reading to very reductive levels. I decided to stay here and not run away from issues, I have no idea how things will go. They are pretty bad just now. The changing line six suggested:

"The king makes use of going out on an expedition with a celebration, chopping off heads. The catch is not the enemy. No fault.
In order to make an idea visible for others, one has to make a show. Only truth is often too dim for others to become inspired. Do not deceive them, but make a theatre of what you have to say."

Would that mean that I have to show not only say that I can work on things that I am promising to work in case that if I stay? Meaning to accept that this is over. What do you think there would be an advice for me in terms of action?

I am sorry I am so clueless about this, hence your insights are very appreciated and I will start noting the answers in diaries to make sense of the in the future.
 

moss elk

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The website you got that from is a good one! Lise is one of the moderators here. :)

The problem is with commentary.
How can I explain?
Sometimes when we have the first 'aha! that's what it means moment' it occurs within a context or realm of things that we were dealing with. If we initially attribute/associate a text with the subject matter of a limited specific experience, then we can be in error by stretching that context to fit a text (thereby limiting the text), instead of stretching the text to fit a context. (As I was eating apples I understood hex X to mean apples, but it really meant 'fruit' )
This is the most common error I see with commentaries in general.

Does this make sense?
 
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Osenia

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Hi Moss Elk,

Thank you for your response. The line that I quoted in my previous post was from Lisa's website, I referred to the quote I used before "allow yourself to be grateful for those who are in line with your efforts. Your light will be seen by them". I read more things from Lisa's /Lise's website and it was quote insightful it did made some more like "aaa" moments.

By the commentary do you mean my commentary or do you mean the commentary of a particular line? If I understand you right, you mean that people (including me here) tend to thing of that particular moment/instance in order to get an answer to just that, when in fact I ching is speaking in broader sense/broader perspective in order to learn from it for future references?

I am slightly lost about the dance moves metaphor, but I guess you mean to look into what a hexagram is telling in its fullness rather then reading into a line?

Either way I decided that it is just a bit pointless to try to force this relationship to work even if there is love, well care, attachment whatever that is. But the person says it doesn't work then I guess it doesn't work for him. Many hexagram I cast were saying of similar letting go, going with the flow, changes issues so I guess this is the best I can do.

Thank you for your insights. Iching seemed to have been a bit of a corner stone in situation (apart from people of support) and I feel like I am quite interested in its relation to helping someone in a difficult situation.
 

moss elk

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Forget about the dance moves, I'll edit that out.

When I said Commentaries, I meant those of authors, not your comments.
But I think it can apply to anyone in their learning process.
 

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