The Ruler

[germanking]

In the Yi, who is the Ruler? Any thoughts?

 

[germanking]

Either no one knows the answer or I'm supposed to already know this as a beginner.

Cheers.

 

[lightofreason]

There are exceptions in the traditional perspective, but the ruler lines are usually 2 or 5 and overall equate with hexagram 29 and a focus on containment/control. Thus 2 is a supervisor, 5 is the court/king etc

08 (line 5, court focus, passive attracting, unconditional - people go to the court not the court to them)

07 (line 2, social structure focus, unconditional - social rules are supplied from the outside, uniformity, structure of command and control)

08 + 07 = 29 general focus on containment/control (water in bottom is containment, water in top is containment doubled and so control)

Since there are three forms of interpretations so each has different aspects to this. (asymmetric form, symmetric form, anti-symmetric(hierarchy) form) - these map to the three best known compass formats of trigrams - Fu Hsi, King Wen, and Family orderings. (the latter covers the hierarchy of worker, supervisor, local lord, minister, king, sage)

If you wanted to, you can use the binary ordering of the IC to describe all 64 aspects of containment/control covering the path from 29 to 30 where in 29 we have a boundary to keep things in or out (and so protect) and in 30 we have a boundary we push outwards (exploit etc) - covering the notion of guidance/ideology. Emotionally water covers issues of rejection, fire issues of acceptance (being one of the 'gang')

From a mangerial/leadership perspective the focus is on properties of Wind (manager, from behind) vs Heaven (leader, from in front) - this reflects 'variations on a theme' where the differences of hexagrams are in the their base lines (e.g. 44/01 form a 'variations' pair as do 28/43 or 02/24 or 23/27 etc)

How much detail do you want?

Chris.

 

[bruce_g]

Hi Germanking. This place usually is pretty quiet around the weekends. A small introduction, giving others some idea where you're coming from also encourages others to join in with you.

Just as your nic-name implies, a ruler is a king, authority or high official. It isn't context specific, so how it's is applied is largely a matter of subjective reference, i.e. spiritual, political, military, etc.

 

[bradford]

It's unclear to me what you mean by that question.
There was a system invented in the Han Dynasty, many centuries after
the Yi was written, that designated certain lines, usually 5, 2 or some
featured line as governing or constituting rulers. I don't rely at all
on that system. In the text of the Yi there are several different Chinese
words translated as king, ruler, duke, master, lord, etc. Literally they
refer to characters in a monarchy organized into feudal territories.
Even back then though they were probably taken at least a little
as metaphors for the overall organization of the self, with the king
being the part of you who can be the most responsible.

 

[peacecat]

Just as your nic-name implies, a ruler is a king, authority or high official. It isn't context specific, so how it's is applied is largely a matter of subjective reference, i.e. spiritual, political, military, etc.

I live a fairly reclusive life so that when I get a moving line with a ruler in it I interpret it as refering to either my higher nature (which is ever under cultivation) or to God (higher power, Sage,...). If I were more socially involved I would look to the people in my life and, as Bruce said, look for authority figures. Also I think it's important to keep the initial question in mind as that can also leave some clues as to who the ruler is and what the motivation is.

Kate

 

[yly2pg1]

In the Yi, who is the Ruler? Any thoughts?

There are exceptions in the traditional perspective, but the ruler lines are usually 2 or 5 and overall equate with hexagram 29 and a focus on containment/control. Thus 2 is a supervisor, 5 is the court/king etc

08 (line 5, court focus, passive attracting, unconditional - people go to the court not the court to them)

07 (line 2, social structure focus, unconditional - social rules are supplied from the outside, uniformity, structure of command and control)

08 + 07 = 29 general focus on containment/control (water in bottom is containment, water in top is containment doubled and so control)

Since there are three forms of interpretations so each has different aspects to this. (asymmetric form, symmetric form, anti-symmetric(hierarchy) form) - these map to the three best known compass formats of trigrams - Fu Hsi, King Wen, and Family orderings. (the latter covers the hierarchy of worker, supervisor, local lord, minister, king, sage)

What comes to me is a clue to "why we need GOD?"...

 

[dobro p]

What's your clue?

 

[yly2pg1]

I live a fairly reclusive life so that when I get a moving line with a ruler in it I interpret it as refering to either my higher nature (which is ever under cultivation) or to God (higher power, Sage,...). ..

Kate

reinforcement in the clues by Kate.

 

[hollis]

Great Question. What's the Answer.

In the Yi, who is the Ruler? Any thoughts?

Germanking, I'm just in the middle of wondering about this. Then your post.

In hex 11, line 5, there is the soverign I.

Who or what is that?

Can I just share what I am at the moment thinking about this? Okay, here it is:

how does it, the decison of Soverign I, relate to what I want? Is it my desire? Is it NOT my desire? What is higher than my desire? The only thing I can think of is cause and effect. For instance, the soverign I married off his younger sister, but did she want to get married to who she was married to? Was she happy? That's just what I am wondering now. Hope I find the answer.

Was she happy?

What if I want "A" and soverign I, (whatever that is) says "B".

In the Yi, who is the Ruler? Any thoughts?

I feel that there are people on this forum, who have answered that question for themselves. That's why I read here. They seem to be knowlegable about systems, daoist and other, that I do not have knowledge of.

 

[rosada]

hollis, germankin, et al,

I've been intending to keep a diary of who shows up on days when the I Ching refers to The Ancestress, The Prince in Scarlet Kneebands, The Soverign etc. cause I too would like to figure out just what role these characters are playing in my life! Anyway, that hasn't happened yet, but we did discuss 11.5 on the Memorizing the I Ching thread (look in the archieves - more easily found if you press 11.5, not just 11). I was asking Chris to take over my role and post the daily hexagram. As it was my job and my responcibility I didn't have to consult with anyone before I made the request. So this says to me that the Soverign I could refer to one's own independent Self and The Daughter given in marrage- in my case the I Ching thread - could be something you care very deeply about and are turning over to someone else's care, and that it will work out well (which in my case, it did! Thanks, Chris).

germankin, in Wilhelm you may notice that each hexagram has one line that has a circle by it. Is this what you were refering to as "The Ruler"? The lines with the circles are the lines that best sum up the whole feeling of the hexagram.

 

[hollis]

I've been intending to keep a diary of who shows up on days when the I Ching refers to The Ancestress, The Prince in Scarlet Kneebands, The Soverign etc. cause I too would like to figure out just what role these characters are playing in my life!

Good idea. I like it. I've had no problem with the some of these characters, lord in the alley, but the Soverign, that's been a tough one. I like your thought of keeping notes on these characters!, so simple, thunk.

So this says to me that the Soverign I could refer to one's own independent Self and The Daughter given in marrage- in my case the I Ching thread - could be something you care very deeply about and are turning over to someone else's care, and that it will work out well

I like that too! It always helps to hear how people interpret their own readings successfully. Like Autumn did on the tiger in the playground thread.

 

[bruce_g]

For instance, the soverign I married off his younger sister, but did she want to get married to who she was married to? Was she happy? That's just what I am wondering now. Hope I find the answer.

Was she happy?

That's a very good question.

To be stripped of your rank to marry someone you may not even know, much less love, can not be an entirely easy or happy thing. One attains the blessing (11) only by accepting their destiny and place in the grand scheme.

 

[germanking]

That's a very good question.

To be stripped of your rank to marry someone you may not even know, much less love, can not be an entirely easy or happy thing. One attains the blessing (11) only by accepting their destiny and place in the grand scheme.

It's a good question but would you do it?

 

[germanking]

in Wilhelm you may notice that each hexagram has one line that has a circle by it. Is this what you were refering to as "The Ruler"? The lines with the circles are the lines that best sum up the whole feeling of the hexagram.

My copy of the Yi does not have the circles.

 

[heylise]

The emperor marries off his younger sister. It seems that this princess is the one who became the mother of King Wen. So she was destined to becomes the mother of a dynasty. He married her to a man of lower rank, the father of Wen.
By doing that, he connected the two families, and he even connected the ancestors of the two families. So later, when Wen had conquered the rulers of Shang, he still brought the sacrifices to their ancestors. Because they were also his ancestors. This marriage was a great blessing for both families and for the country.

The fanyao is about waiting with food and drink, so don't fuss about ranks or going far from home or having to adapt to another life. You are destined for something bigger. Or maybe you are the ruler Yi, and you have to put things together, to make them bigger than they are on their own. Whoever you are, your life deserves to be meaningful, so make it such.

LiSe

 

[Sparhawk]

It's a good question but would you do it?

I don't know about Bruce (he'd marry one of his guitars, methinks...), but I'm sure that the young princess would have no choice whatsoever in the matter and that links to what Bruce mentions about fitting in the Grand Scheme... In a place and time where one can lose one's head for sneezing in front of the Emperor...

In interpreting the text, we should try to keep a keen eye on the historical context of it. (Something that Chris L would slap you twice for doing... ) Imperial China was no present Switzerland...

L

 

[germanking]

how does it, the decison of Soverign I, relate to what I want? Is it my desire? Is it NOT my desire? What is higher than my desire? The only thing I can think of is cause and effect. For instance, the soverign I married off his younger sister, but did she want to get married to who she was married to? Was she happy? That's just what I am wondering now. Hope I find the answer.

What was your particular question in this instance?

They seem to be knowlegable about systems, daoist and other,

What are 'systems'?

 

[bruce_g]

It's a good question but would you do it?

Funny you should ask. I got 11.5-5 three days ago, over a personally difficult and troubling matter. I chose to fight it (the marriage or fate) rather than accept it, but at the same time I took advantage of being at Mount Tai: lighting candles like an old Italian woman in black mourning coat, asking for the blessing (figuratively). I trust it will come. As LiSe has just pointed out, in this case destiny has something even greater planned, and I'm trusting that implicitly. Meanwhile, there’s a wedding ceremony going on, lots of wonderful food and drink to enjoy.

 

[germanking]

How much detail do you want?

Chris.

As much as you can handle.

 

[bruce_g]

As much as you can handle.

lol.. prepare yourself.

 

[Sparhawk]

As much as you can handle.

Oops, big mistake! You don't know Chris...

L

 

[martin]

 

[dobro p]

As much as you can handle.

Uh-oh. This is gonna be so painful to watch...

 

[dobro p]

Hey, anybody up for a game of 'spot the newbie'?

 

[hollis]

As much as you can handle.

NOOOO!!!!!!!!NOOOOO!!!!!

 

[hollis]

The fanyao is about waiting with food and drink, so don't fuss about ranks or going far from home or having to adapt to another life. You are destined for something bigger. Or maybe you are the ruler Yi, and you have to put things together, to make them bigger than they are on their own. Whoever you are, your life deserves to be meaningful, so make it such.

LiSe

god I love it when you talk like that.

 

[hollis]

Funny you should ask. I got 11.5-5 three days ago, over a personally difficult and troubling matter. I chose to fight it (the marriage or fate) rather than accept it, .

see, just something like that, the little thing you said up there, Bruce, can make the sun shine. i read it as the marriage OF fate.

 

[hollis]

My copy of the Yi does not have the circles.

the back of the yellow Wilhelm Baynes, but if you are german, it must be just Wilhelm. That book explains all the circles and squares, the ruling lines.

 

[hollis]

What was your particular question in this instance?



What are 'systems'?

hi germanking, the question, I didnt write it down, the question, but it was along the lines of "What will resolve this mess" - something to that effect. To preface: it is a long time problem, & came to a head AGAIN yesterday, so I cried quite a bit about it. I had put the book DOWN for a few days. So the crying cleared some ground, and then allowing myself ONE question from the book, feeling some clarity, asked politely, "What is needed to end this problem." 11 line 5.

The systems, what are systems, well, maybe you werent here, but some people who have posted here have calendar systems, (very helpful, hope they continue to come back),some people, from the archives, have dreams, some people it seems talk to some kind of immortal master. they do taoist mediations and have spirit meetings that explain the Yijing to them. all kinds of systems, too much for me. some people seem to have some kind of tradtion to study the Yi, but I really dont know anything about it. I still just read mostly the back of Wilhelm to understand.