the sequence of I Ching

[answeredquestions]

Thank you Bradford. I might have to leap over to Volume Two for a bit and then back to One. Also thank you for the Words starting on Page 417.

I feel like I am flopping around like a fish. First I think that the entire Yi is based on the hexagrams alone (sad but true beginning), then I get introduced to the OBI and I shift my thoughts.. but it seems to be unclear and much more complex. It really is like the Blind men and the elephant.

 

[pocossin]

So, these hexagrams and text from before the Zhouyi, were they before Oracle Bones?

AQ, the connection between the Zhouyi and oracle bones seems to be no more than script and a culture of divination. Oracle bones were in use mainly during the late Shang Dynasty, whereas the older Xia Dynasty used the Lian Shan Yi, so hexagrams are older than found oracle bones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhouyi

I accept LiSe's idea that the gui biao is the origin of the hexagrams.

http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/origins/gui-gua/gui-gua.htm

 

[answeredquestions]

Lian Shan Yi.. beautiful name. It is looking like this book is unavailable to us now.

As for the Guibiao/Gnomon (well the pictures I saw at least) none of them have the lines for the shadow to cast itself on to. They look like very interesting and wonderful time tellers, but I don't understand how they built hexagrams. Sticks laid over perpendicularly?

I wonder what a series of anthills would look like to this little guy..

 

[dryjoe]

Until now, I have not intended to partake in this discourse because three years ago I was quite active in a similar discussion here in connection with the Yi-globe.
Last year, I finished the revised, unabridged, new version of my book where I published new arguments on the three-dimensional origin of the King Wen sequence.

After having read answeredquestions' post of May 3rd,

So, if anyone has any ideas similar but does not feel like taking the time or doesn't have the time to do it, let.me.know. I am serious.

still I decided to sum up the main points of my reasoning here.
Unfortunately, this exposition became a bit lengthy though I restricted my explanation only to the two-dimensional origin of the KWS, without referring to the 3D Yi-globe. Thus, I attached it to my homepage as Amendment 3, and you can read it there and here. I hope it will mean something to somebody.

Of course, it is possible to see the emperor's new clothes where there is nothing (Bradford, May 13rd) - Sorry!

Joe
The Yi-globe

 

[hilary]

Thank you, Joe. I wonder what you'll make of Dan Hessey's recent work on the Sequence?
http://ichingandsociety.com

 

[dryjoe]

Last year, I referred here to the possibility of the two-dimensional origin of the King Wen sequence (see above, post #64). A week ago, I completed my article about this topic and uploaded to my site.
The title is: New two-dimensional arrangements of the hexagrams: The King Wen Table and the King Wen Array.
It is readable here: http://www.i-ching.hu/array/kingwen-array.htm
I shall be grateful for any reactions.

Joe
The Yi-globe

 

[dryjoe]

Rather belatedly, I should like to answer Hilary’s question.

I wonder what you'll make of Dan Hessey's recent work on the Sequence?

Dear Hilary,
As I wrote you before, the link led to a dead-end. I found, however, a series of videos on the Youtube (The I Ching: The Way of Enlightened Society) and all the slides of another talk (The I Ching and the Organizational Development) on Mr. Hessey’s public page on the Facebook.
On one of the slides he declared that “The sequence is a map of organizational development.” Apparently, he found parallelism between succession of the hexagrams in the traditional order and the operation of societal processes. The slides well illustrate this connection.
Hessey found or created groups of hexagrams where the members have common qualities (in text, structure, significance, etc.) such as Taming Society (#3-12), Wise Leadership (#13-16), …, Enlightened Society (#55-56, #59-60). In this way, the development of society seemingly follows the increase of the ordinals. Last year, this theory was partially strengthened in the book of Scott Davis; he also sees a process of development, but on personal level, in the order of the hexagrams (A Textual Archaeology of the Yi jing, 2012).
In the tabular arrangements (KW table and KW array), also groups can be found. The hexagrams in them have common qualities as to the trigram components. Here, these groups are regularly located in the rectangular table which indicates a conscious design in the past.
All these theories have been based on the observation and the analysis of the hexagrams in the given structure. There are also assumptions and arguments but there are no sufficient evidences. Thus, I think that these hypotheses have to live together in peace, until the finding of some convincing proof.

Joe
The Yi-globe

 

[bradford]

IMO, more time and energy has been wasted trying to make sense of the King Wen arrangement than any other of the many silly digressions that Yi scholars have concocted. The algorithm is simple: 32 pairs were found, then the pairs were shuffled, then the two most structurally meaningful pairs were placed at beginning and end. The pairs are meaningful, the sequence is not.
All of this wasted time could have been spent in trying to understand what the book actually has to say. However, this time would have been spent by people inclined to get suckered in by these silly numerological exercises, so it might not have been that productive anyway.

 

[tuckchang]

I had the same thought like yours before I understood what the I Ching said to me. In addition to divination, the I Ching is also regarded as a philosophy of human life, and King Wen sequence contains the philosophy, not only a physical conversion.

Independent from the common divination based on Zhou Yi, 焦jiag京jing易 (the Yi of 焦延壽 and 京房) developed their own method and invented the so-called 八ba宮gong (eight wombs). I made one at http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9549/58476775.png for your reference.

It is a physical conversion and systemically covers 64 hexagrams. They also developed their own reading method, but it is pity that my English is not able to translate even its basic concept. BTW it is alleged that the divination by 3 coins was invented by them.

Everyone might have his own viewpoint, and every contribution to this forum will benefit others; I learnt a lot here. Recently I have read in some threads that Lise annotates hex 45 as herb and you annotates hex 11 as ‘to engage’, they are the best description I have ever thought.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com

 

[svenrus]

Resumé

I'd try to take these sequences gathered together from 1 to 64 without luck, so I hope that Tuckchang would'nt mind if I link it here from my homepage. (I have not made any link to it within that page ! And I will imidiately remove it from there if wished...)

http://svenrus.dk/tuckchangsequences.pdf

 

[tuckchang]

Hi Sevnrus,

Be free to use it but please correct following number.

The sequence 41 – 45

After the drought has been dissolved, the villain dismissed and the crisis alleviated in the hexagram Xie (40). How to economize the use of resources from those below to those above (in the form of masculinity adding to femininity) is the subject of the hexagram Sun (41). In the era of Sun, those below enrich those above according to their capability and the necessity, and balance is the optimal status which need be reached; those above must cherish the enrichment from those below; actually the enrichment from those below is their contribution to the country.

In the hexagram Sun (41) those below diminish themselves so as to enrich those above, while in the hexagram Yi (42), those above diminish themselves to enrich those below. The king makes use of the very valuable tortoise (the tribute of those below in hex 41) to worship Heaven to bless his people. The enrichment must be sincerely & trustworthily carried out in a fair manner and must be a long term project for the better future instead of some political measures just to please the people.

Enrichment (42) continues ceaselessly and becomes brimful; it will definitely break and burst. Line 6 of the hexagram Yi (42) gets used to enrichment and becomes insatiably avaricious; no one will enrich it but rather attack it. Therefore the hexagram Guai (43) is granted after it, wherein the masculine unveils the evil behaviors of villains in public and is getting rid of the feminine.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com

 

[svenrus]

In this thread on #32 it's like I copied it. But I have just corrected it according to Your advicement, #71.

 

[svenrus]

Hi Tuck,

How is it going with the publishing of your book ?
I've been used to take your most usefull sequence-explanation (#70, above link) in mind every time I seek clarity in a reading.
Good luck !

 

[tuckchang]

Hi svenus,

I am now starting proofreading under the assistance of a forum member. I don’t know when it can be accomplished but it is a big step forward to the target.

Thank you for the encouragement.

Regards
Tuck

 

[svenrus]

Hope the best. I get at least as much out of your translation as when reading Richard Wilhelm. I even like it more as R.W. can seem too ceremonious in his (or rather Lao Nai-hsüan's) unravellings.