The Wanderer who goes nowhere Hex 56 unchanging

[newlife123]

Friends,

Recently with all the turbulence and stress in my life I have decided to slow things down and kind of retreat from it a bit or at least a partial retreat. Besides believing in the I Ching, I also believe in karma theories and reincarnation and have come to my own conclusion that it isn't possible to change your destiny in the current life time. Being persistant or resistant in any situation just gives you mental agony in life. I believe the I Ching tells us the current flow of life but to me, that doesn't mean I can change it.

Well I asked Yi just now:

"Where is my life taking me?"

Got hex 56 and no changing lines. What do you guys think?

 

[bradford]

you're lost


“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”
“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the cat.
“I don’t much care where...” said Alice.
“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the cat.
Lewis Carroll

 

[precision grace]

"Where is my life taking me?"

Got hex 56 and no changing lines. What do you guys think?

Your life is taking you on The Journey. Because Life = Journey. Simples.

 

[meng]

My experience on rivers, as well as other flowing bodies of water, such as oceanic currents, is that they are in a constant state of change, based on several also changing factors, like: location, snow runoffs, amount of rain and general climate, time of year, whether there are dams built along its path, how much water is being diverted for irrigation and human consumption, etc. It's a vein within an entire ecosystem, unlike a bathtub, though a bath can sometimes improve the environment.

The Way as a predestined river must include every twist and bend, every fallen tree and waterfall. I don't understand the Way to be that way. My world view is that the Way is only knowable as a fixed and knowable occurrence when played in rewind. Looking back usually isn't the most skillful way to navigate a river. Instead, being on the lookout for the unexpected and what lies immediately in front of you, are where the eyes and mind should focus. It's also where Yi generally directs my focus. hmm, what a strange coincidence.

Timing is (to me) what it's about, and surfing the Tao requires natural timing, which comes from knowledge, practice, experience, innate skill, and desire. That's anything but predestined.

 

[newlife123]

Thanks Meng,

I don't really believe in free will anymore. You come to a forked path road and it could be more than two paths, it could be a thousand or a million but whatever path you choose takes you to the same location. That's how I feel.

 

[meng]

Naturally, I respect your beliefs. I can't prove nor disprove either of our beliefs, but what I can do is take a lesson from nature, such as your river forks, tributaries, backwaters: all which split the Way into several options. Theoretically, they're all the way; I just believe we make our own choices which way we travel through life.

If we have no choices, then of what use is the Yijing as an oracle? If all roads lead to Rome, why would anyone have invented a compass, or a map? That includes those compasses that have been built into the senses of more physically aware and sensitive other life forms, just as birds, and the Monarch butterfly, which migrate when the early signs of winter appear.

I define fate as seeing what has already happened, from a superposition.

 

[newlife123]

Well meng, first of all, thank you for your reply. People use compasses because they think they are going somewhere for reals. I see the Yi Ching as a technology that gives us an indication of the current energy and where it is flowing to but I don't believe I have control over it in any way.

Let's say that life is like being on a train and you can play any character you want from the conductor to the waiter to the millionaire passenger to the stowaway but in the end you don't have control over the route of the train and its destination. That is how I see it.

I am also wondering if we even have any control over our thoughts. I saw an interview with Paul McCartney recently where he states that the majority of the songs he has written just come to him in the night while sleeping without any effort on his part and the hardest thing for him to do is to try to find a way to remember the tune before it escapes his mind since he doesn't know how to write music. He said he has lost a lot of songs.

 

[anemos]

Let's say that life is like being on a train and you can play any character you want from the conductor to the waiter to the millionaire passenger to the stowaway but in the end you don't have control over the route of the train and its destination. That is how I see it.

Free will , for me, is closer to what V Frankl call last freedom , perhaps a very limited agency but closer to the reality. Was thinking the other day that h62 could be a grounded definition of "free will" or as Darwin says "its the one who adapts who survives"

 

[meng]

newlife, I can't disagree with you, and at different times I have questioned the very same thing, but I did not reach one firm conclusion. What I state is the course I'm presently on, as it's the most feasible way to me. In the future, who knows?

 

[newlife123]

Well if you believe in any of the astrological systems then it means that you believe in predestiny to some degree. I personally believe in Karma and reincarnation. I don't know if anyone here knows anything about Indian astrology but if you google jyotish you will find a lot of links. That school of astrology is based on karma and reincarnation.

There is also something called the Kong Ming Shen Shou that is another form of chinese divination based on the 384 individual likes of the Yi Ching and shows you where in the cycle you are at. The difference is with the Kong Ming Shen Shou you do not have choices but just have to follow the cycle through.

 

[precision grace]

What we have is an Illusion of Choice. But we do have freedom to enjoy whatever delusion we choose, and that is something even if freedom is never free.

 

[mazaru]

What I believe in, are multiple lives at the same time. Parallel universus. So each life is predetermined. But it is kind of a comfort to know that all the things you hoped for and didn't get, all the love you wanted but they choose somebody else, all the jobs you would have loved to have but you just missed them, in a paralel universe you did get it and experienced it with its ups and downs.

So I think newlife123 is right about the illusion of free choice. It's nothing more but an illusion and this life is predetermined.

 

[newlife123]

Mazaru,

I have also heard of the parallel universes theory and it is fascinating. There are an infinite amount of universus going on at the same time and each one is closer to us than our own skin. Since the number is infinite no matter how weird you can imagine yourself as, there will be that being in one of the universes.

But none of that is of value unless you are able to shift between universes and I guess that is of no value either if you can't remember the last universe you shifted in from.. What if the Yi Ching was an instrument that showed the coming universe shifts?

 

[precision grace]

are you fans of Jet Li? http://www.imdb.co.uk/title/tt0267804/

 

[mazaru]

I've been thinking about this theory a lot and I think the soul is capable of splitting up in millions of pieces at the same time.

We live these lives all at about the same time and afterwards the soul becomes one again. Once it becomes one again, it learns from all the lives we have experienced.

So I don't think the IC is showing what comes in another universe, it knows exactly which path you are on in this universe.

 

[mazaru]

Hahaha I loved that movie precision grace!

 

[newlife123]

Well it is just and idea.

Okay so lets say that there is reincarnation or some sort of soul transfer. Then if you are able to remember the last life it would have to mean that you memories are not located in your brain and have to be located out there in the void somewhere and transferred back into your present body. So your brain is just a machine that receives radio waves and all current actions and thought are saved in somekind of an external hard drive out there.

Now lets say you believe in monotheism and you arrive in front of God after you die and a decision is made on whether you go to heaven or hell based on your action when you were alive. Well if you are dead and are able to remember your life on Earth then it also means that you memories aren't stored in your head. (you no longer have a head.)

 

[precision grace]

what difference does it make though? Are your actions in the now guided by the fact that you may or may not come back as a squirrel in the next life?

 

[mazaru]

I don't know if I can quite follow you, but why would your memories not be located in your brain? I don't think we are using 100% of our brain. Maybe those memories are located in an inactive part of our brain. And maybe that inactive part of the brain is somehow connected with our soul?

I have seen a program about reincarnation where somebody was brought under hypnoses. They were brought back to before they were in the womb and they remembered another life. They discribed places in other countries where they have lived and died, but they have never been there in their current life and they spoke a language that they never learned in their current life. Ifound it al very interesting.

I wish this board was dutch, it would be much easier to express what I mean and understand what you mean.

 

[newlife123]

what difference does it make though? Are your actions in the now guided by the fact that you may or may not come back as a squirrel in the next life?

Well I guess the point is that we accumulate karma from past lives that we have to pay off in this life and there is no way to delay or defer it. So that means that whatever good or bad we get in this life is unavoidable. That is what I mean when I say I do not believe that I can change my destiny.

 

[anemos]

So what function oracles , like Yi, serve ? Is that a mere curiosity to see what is coming since we can not change ? If we are not the co-creators then asking an oracle feels like we just cheat a bit and skip some pages to get a grip what will happen next . something we can use apart to satisfy our curiosity and a false impression of having control and know the unknown ? Are we reading a book that its already written- published -done ?

Taking karma as a metaphor what that could mean and how different could be with what we call predetermined factors ( genes, the time we come into that world the situations of those times etc) ?

 

[precision grace]

Well I guess the point is that we accumulate karma from past lives that we have to pay off in this life and there is no way to delay or defer it. So that means that whatever good or bad we get in this life is unavoidable. That is what I mean when I say I do not believe that I can change my destiny.

It may be unavoidable what we get, but how we respond to what we get is entirely up to us.

 

[meng]

Well if you believe in any of the astrological systems then it means that you believe in predestiny to some degree.

It does nothing of the kind. Astral bodies follow their courses and forces as they are influenced.

If you want to believe your fate is predetermined, have at it. Just remember, that neither you nor anyone else can prove any of it. So it remains only a belief or idea. I prefer ideas over beliefs these days. Beliefs are like shutting all the lights off to watch a movie; a movie of your beliefs, and nothing else.

 

[littlebuddha]

Friends,

Recently with all the turbulence and stress in my life I have decided to slow things down and kind of retreat from it a bit or at least a partial retreat. Besides believing in the I Ching, I also believe in karma theories and reincarnation and have come to my own conclusion that it isn't possible to change your destiny in the current life time. Being persistant or resistant in any situation just gives you mental agony in life. I believe the I Ching tells us the current flow of life but to me, that doesn't mean I can change it.

Well I asked Yi just now:

"Where is my life taking me?"

Got hex 56 and no changing lines. What do you guys think?

Hi, i have my own set of believes which partially coincide with yours... (The reincarnation part.) But, in terms of the Hexagram you got i believe the message is to try to enjoy the journey as much as possible, without having a precise destination in mind? Whether or not we can change the destiny itself and how difficult it is, i don't know - and i do doubt anyone does, we all deal with believes here BUT, if you are willing to adopt the best possible course of action (or non-action) in this tradition - maybe it would be useful for you to read Sherill's "The Heritage of Change" on how it's done: http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/wp/the-lost-work-of-wallace-andrew-sherrill/
(It's free to download and i believe Chapter 2 might make sense to you at his point of time.)

 

[meng]

Oh, yes, the matter of 56. Not a good time to make judgment calls or reach conclusions. Fire on the mountain moves along quickly, it can not tarry and endure.

 

[newlife123]

So what function oracles , like Yi, serve ? Is that a mere curiosity to see what is coming since we can not change ? If we are not the co-creators then asking an oracle feels like we just cheat a bit and skip some pages to get a grip what will happen next . something we can use apart to satisfy our curiosity and a false impression of having control and know the unknown ? Are we reading a book that its already written- published -done ?

Hi anemos. Yes, I believe the book has already been written and is constantly being republished. The Yi Ching is a set of snap shots with documentation of the smaller cycles within the great cycle and the individual line are snapshots of the smaller cycles with documentation. It is all fractal. The indians have similar technologies: Yanta, Hora and Nadi Asrology ect. I don't know why other seek divination but I know why I do. I seek out of concern and fear for myself and I am not always logical or level headed and need guidance.
The Yi Ching is actually everywhere. The whole universe is An Yi Ching. Justg walk around and ask questions in your mind and you will see things around you changing such as car accident, birds chirping in certain from certain directions, catching a glimpse of someone attractive, deja vu, winning a small amount in the lottery, having someone bump into you and other harbingers ect. all these are signs but we don't know how to read them. Some people even have their own body as the Yi Ching and their eyes twitch or legs spasm before major even happen. premonitions.

Taking karma as a metaphor what that could mean and how different could be with what we call predetermined factors ( genes, the time we come into that world the situations of those times etc) ?

Well when I say I dont have free will I guess I am saying that I don't have the power to change the good and bad karma that I will be receiving in this life time (Parabdha Karma). However, my current actions do create my future karma in the next life (Agama Karma ). So in that sense I do have free will since the only way for me to keep on reincarnating is by sowing more seeds (Agama Karma ). But once again, I don't believe that I have any choice but to live out my destiny in this life.

 

[newlife123]

It may be unavoidable what we get, but how we respond to what we get is entirely up to us.

I am not so sure about that. Some situations seem to require a pre-chosen responce in order to have fruitioned.

 

[newlife123]

It does nothing of the kind. Astral bodies follow their courses and forces as they are influenced.

If you want to believe your fate is predetermined, have at it. Just remember, that neither you nor anyone else can prove any of it. So it remains only a belief or idea. I prefer ideas over beliefs these days. Beliefs are like shutting all the lights off to watch a movie; a movie of your beliefs, and nothing else.

Well the planets and the stars are not are like the Yi ching; they are just markers or indicators of the current universal energy. Just like how the hands on your watch just represent time and are not time itself. Yes, you're right, none of it can be universally proven. However, my beliefs are my beliefs because I have seen prooof for myself. I have no interest in blind faith. Destiny certainly exists though our opinions of how it exist are very different. We are all destined to die aren't we?

 

[meng]

There are black holes and rabbit holes to fall into or through. I agree with those who say, enjoy the journey, however you perceive it.

 

[newlife123]

Hi, i have my own set of believes which partially coincide with yours... (The reincarnation part.) But, in terms of the Hexagram you got i believe the message is to try to enjoy the journey as much as possible, without having a precise destination in mind? Whether or not we can change the destiny itself and how difficult it is, i don't know - and i do doubt anyone does, we all deal with believes here BUT, if you are willing to adopt the best possible course of action (or non-action) in this tradition - maybe it would be useful for you to read Sherill's "The Heritage of Change" on how it's done: http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/wp/the-lost-work-of-wallace-andrew-sherrill/
(It's free to download and i believe Chapter 2 might make sense to you at his point of time.)

I have downloaded the book, Thank you.