Threes and Fives

[russell]

Hello; in Synchronicity, Jung says that the yarrow stalk method consists of “. . . dividing the forty-nine yarrow stalks into two heaps at random and counting off the heaps by threes and fives . . . .” Does anyone know what that means?

—Russell

 

[Sparhawk]

I have the book and I'm inclined to say it is a typo or misinterpretation by the translator. Also, there's footnote attached to it that sends you to check the I Ching translation by Wilhelm. The explanation is there and fives and threes are mentioned but not in the confusing way of Jung's work. Page 721, at the end of the book.

 

[peterg]

Jung's 3 and 5 are meaningless.
Wilhelm 'supernumaries' and number conversions must be very confusing to anyone new to yarrow.

So to clarify :
Split the 49 with right hand to get Left Pile and Right Pile.Take one stalk from RP and put between lower fingers of left hand.
Count off LP by fours and put remainders 4 or less between middle fingers of left hand.
Count off RP by fours and put remainders of 4 or less between upper fingers of left hand.
Put the 5 or 9 remainders aside and start again with 44 or 40 stalks to get remainders 4 or 8.
Put these 4 or 8 aside and start again with 40 or 36 or 32 stalks to get remainders 4 or 8.

Add all the remainders to get the first line OR
Just count the bundles of 4 left over at the end of every third operation to get the lines 6, 7, 8, 9 = moving yin, static yang, static yin, moving yang.

Start again with 49 to get the second line.And so on upwards to the 6th line.

Pretty soon you will be able to do it eyes shut without thinking.It becomes a motor memory.In a short time you will become effortlessly familiar with the remainders :
544 ( =13 + bundles 9x4 = 49)
548,584,944, (=17 + bundles 8x4 = 49),
948, 984, 588, ( =21 + bundles 7x4 = 49),
988. ( = 25 + bundles 6x4 = 49).

You can get coin odds if you prefer them by splitting 48 stalks instead of 49.The bundles at the end of every third operation are the same, 6,7,8,9. And the remainders will be all 4 and 8.

You dont have to perform the traditional rituals associated with yarrow, but its a good idea to know them.

 

[russell]

It got me thinking anyway. I can’t come up with any sensible method that uses threes and fives, but I did find a way to use twos and fours. I posted it and a few other simpler methods at

russellcottrell.com/VirtualYarrowStalks/directYarrow.htm

The fact is that most of the steps of the “traditional” method are unnecessary. The good side of me says that maybe the ritual helps people get into a meditational mindset. The bad side of me says maybe it was intended to be fortune-telling theatrics to dazzle the uninitiated. Or maybe people thought (or still think) that the extra steps add to the “magic.”

—Russell

 

[peterg]

I experimented with other possible divisors and line ratios.I kept notes so I will take a look at them to see if theres anything worth reporting.
Yarrow is a satisfying and complete method.Its repetitive quality elicits a meditative mindset, so could be called an exercise in meditation.
Interesting and well constructed website and links.
Did you build the site yourself and did that require a lot of specialist knowledge-work-money ?

ps You look like the kind of guy who could fix www.zhouyi.com

 

[russell]

I built the site myself using Notepad. Beats working . . . .

 

[svenrus]

Jung's 3 and 5 are meaningless.
Wilhelm 'supernumaries' and number conversions must be very confusing to anyone new to yarrow.

So to clarify :
Split the 49 with right hand to get Left Pile and Right Pile.Take one stalk from RP and put between lower fingers of left hand.
Count off LP by fours and put remainders 4 or less between middle fingers of left hand.
Count off RP by fours and put remainders of 4 or less between upper fingers of left hand.
Put the 5 or 9 remainders aside and start again with 44 or 40 stalks to get remainders 4 or 8.
Put these 4 or 8 aside and start again with 40 or 36 or 32 stalks to get remainders 4 or 8.

Add all the remainders to get the first line OR
Just count the bundles of 4 left over at the end of every third operation to get the lines 6, 7, 8, 9 = moving yin, static yang, static yin, moving yang.

Start again with 49 to get the second line.And so on upwards to the 6th line.

Pretty soon you will be able to do it eyes shut without thinking.It becomes a motor memory.In a short time you will become effortlessly familiar with the remainders :
544 ( =13 + bundles 9x4 = 49)
548,584,944, (=17 + bundles 8x4 = 49),
948, 984, 588, ( =21 + bundles 7x4 = 49),
988. ( = 25 + bundles 6x4 = 49).
You can get coin odds if you prefer them by splitting 48 stalks instead of 49.The bundles at the end of every third operation are the same, 6,7,8,9. And the remainders will be all 4 and 8.

You dont have to perform the traditional rituals associated with yarrow, but its a good idea to know them.

I've marked it red what I'll comment here: I use to count the rest bunch of yarrow as 13 gives Nine, 17 gives Eight, 21 gives Seven and 25 gives Six ie. the Ritualnumbers and it's "jumps" of four between those ciffers; just to memorize.