Trying to Detrmine Line Pathway for 62.4 Exploding My Head

[susieq777]

Hi everyone,

I've just today begun playing around with what Hillary calls line pathways, Lise calls line squares and Karcher crossline omens.

I really like the idea of being able to follow each line through it's resulting line, then its inverse line, then that line's resulting line, back to the original first resulting line.

It is 2.2am here, which may account for it, but I quite simply cannot come to a satisfactory discovery of 62.4's line pathway.

62.4 > 15.4
15.4 inverse is 16.3
16.3 > 62.3

And then how the bloody sodding hell does 62.3 make its way back to 62.4? What am I doing wrong? I've looked at this about seven times now and it is refusing to make sense to me!

Hayalp!

 

[Trojina]

You aren't wrong, you are exactly right. The line pathway for 62.3 is

62.4
15.4
16.3
62.3

62.3 is the paired line...it's 62.4 upside down. In the line pathway the will end up with the paired line which is the cast line upside down.

 

[Liselle]

The easiest way to get a good feel for this is to draw the reading on paper so you can physically rotate the hexagrams. Once you've done that enough times, it'll come easier to you and you won't have to keep drawing them.

 

[susieq777]

I don't get that. Say my line was 17.4, for example:

17.4>3.4
3.4 - 4.3
4.3>18.3
18.3 - 17.4

That's a nice round trip. But it doesn't work with 62.4:

62.4 > 15.4
15.4 - 16.3
16.3 > 62.3
62.3 - 61.4

So it starts with 62.4 but doesn't end with it but ends at 61.4 instead. ??

 

[Freedda]

The line pathways are still a bit mysterious to me as to how they work together, but based on my limited understanding, your line pathway (laid out in a straight line) looks like:

62.4 [15.4 : 16.3] 62.3 (this is how Karcher lays them out - with brackets - but you could just put one after the other. )

Here's how you arrive at them:
62.4 (primary hexagram with one of its changing lines - if there are other changing lines, repeat a 'path' for each one)
15.4 (the zhi gua hexagram/line of 62.4)
16.3 (the inverse, or paired line of above)
62.3 (the inverse, or the paired line of your primary hexagram; in this case, because the hexagram is the same when inverted, only the line number has changed.)

Another way to lay them out is to draw a square, then starting at top-left corner and moving clockwise, put each one of the above at a corner of the square - the last part of the 'path' then is the line between 62.3 and 62.4.

Another way I understand it is that the three different hexagram/lines alter, expand on, elaborate, say something about this one changing line (62.4, from the primary hexagram) - and that the actual physical path (re: how they are laid out) may not be as important.

 

[Liselle]

(Crossed posts with you, Freedda!)
--------------------

The line pathway is: cast line, fan yao, paired line of fan yao, paired line of cast line.

Here is your cast reading. The cast line is 62.4, and the fan yao is 15.4.

style="width: 500px"
|-
| Cast line
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
62
| Fan yao
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
15

When you turn both those hexagrams upside down - rotated 180 degrees - those are their inverse (rotational) pairs. 62 is one of the hexagrams that is the same when it's inverted, so the inverse pair of 62 is also 62, except the highlighted line is now line 3 instead of line 4.

(This is confusing because the word "pair" can be used in more than one way. But for line pathways, the paired hexagram, and the paired line in it, is always found by inverting -- rotating 180 degrees.)

The inverse pair of 15 is 16, and the highlighted line is also line 3 instead of line 4.

style="width: 500px"
|-
| Paired line of cast line
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
62
| Paired line of fan yao
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
▄▄▄ ▄▄▄
16

So the whole line pathway is 62.4, 15.4, 16.3, 62.3. (I think Hilary has said it's not an immutable law what order they're listed in. This is just an order she's found helpful. )

 

[Liselle]

62.3 - 61.4

So it starts with 62.4 but doesn't end with it but ends at 61.4 instead. ??

I think what's confusing you is the two different kinds of pair. 61 and 62 are pairs in the Sequence, but they're complementary pairs formed by changing each yin line to yang and vice versa. Line pathways are always found by inverting (rotating) the hexagrams. So for some hexagrams there can be different pairs for different purposes. 61.4 is not part of the line pathway for 62.4.

 

[Trojina]

Yes, all 'symetrical' hexagrams that look the same when you turn them upside down will end up with paired line in the same hexagram. So the line pathway of 30.2 will be

30.2
14.2
13.5
30.5

If you turn 30.5 upside down you are back to 30.2. This will happen with all hexagrams that look the same when you invert them like hexagram 1 and 2 and 29 and 28 and so on. 61.4 is not in the pathway , the pathway is as shown in my earlier post. It's a circle that comes back around its just jn symetrical hexagrams it's going to come back to the same hexagram.

 

[susieq777]

Aha. Thank you muchly, everyone. It has finally sunk in ... takes a while sometimes, though now of course it is quite obvious.