Unchanging lines - thoughts and questions

[weiwuwei]

Hi,

I saw a thread here which was discussing unchanging lines vs. changing lines, and whether or not it mattered (much). The discussion went on to be about #4, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

When I ask a question, I use the binary method described here (and copied on Wikipedia):

http://www.organicdesign.co.nz/I_Ching_/_Divination

I mentioned being able to relate to this method, as I was always a computer person and it makes the I Ching work similar to how a computer works, though unlike a computer I use my hand and pennies to manually do the asking (not a fan of pressing/clicking/touching a button when I don't have to, even with solitaire games I like to use a real deck when I can).

Basically it involves assigning four coins you flip the values 1, 2, 4, and 8, respectively, and adding the heads together. The yarrow stalk method, which includes less chance of changing lines than the common 3 coin method, is almost the same with this 4-coin method. Basically

-x- 0 (1/16 chance of old yin)
-0- 1-3 (3/16 chance of old yang)
--- 4-8 (5/16 chance of young yang)
- - 9-15 (7/16 chance of young yin)

IIRC the yarrow stalks are (numbers above)/15

So you can see there is less of a chance of changing lines. I never get more than 2 changing lines, in most cases.

I have not used any other method, both due to the ease of understanding the reading and my personal ability to connect with the method.

However, after reading the #4 thread and some other posts here, I decided to take a look back.

Looking back on my older readings, it seems that simple or single-day stuff will have no changes, while more serious issues or stuff over weeks or longer periods of time will have more changes.

Readings do match the probabilities above, no doubt. But the correlation between changing lines and the significance and/or length of time seems to be up to the I Ching, not me.

Has anyone else noticed similar correlation about changing lines? Or have tried multiple methods and had it not matter?

 

[rodaki]

Someone mentioned a few days ago (I think it was Brad?) that there are no wrong answers but rather better or not-that-good interpretations - so I'd make a question abt whether significance really lays with Yi or not . .

Personally I've played around a bit with various methods but, time passing I've found out what feels good for me. I haven't tried what you describe and don't find it much to my taste either, but if it works for you, then good for you. You might throw a question about it though and take it from there - you could find that you are on a learning curve and ready to try other methods too. In general I think it's better to leave space for the full variation of changes to come up in your castings - as it is, you're looking through a limited scope, how would it be like to open that up?

As to the various methods suggested about reading multiple lines, I think experimenting is a good way of going about it, it means though that you'll better release the need of locking down the answer and rather go in it for the exploring side of it. My only objection is to reading some unchanging line instead of the changing ones, unless all of the rest 5 lines change.

In any case, I find that Yi makes for a poor place to stay too close or too long to any given set of regulations - it makes for a rather unruly subject

 

[weiwuwei]

you could find that you are on a learning curve and ready to try other methods too. In general I think it's better to leave space for the full variation of changes to come up in your castings - as it is, you're looking through a limited scope, how would it be like to open that up?

Good point. I just think it's more authentic to match the yarrow stalks when I can, since it's the second oldest method.

I'm just horrible with my hands and would probably be confused and get the reading wrong. Maybe I should give it a try anyway sometime.

BTW if you were thinking about this method, I accidentally wrote "young yin" next to young yang and vice versa, though the line and probabilities were correct. I edited the original post with the correct info. So if you were thinking about this, take a look at the edited post.

 

[bradford]

Good point. I just think it's more authentic to match the yarrow stalks when I can, since it's the second oldest method.

JUst so you know, the yarrow method we have today is very likely not the original, but was reinvented by Zhuxi in the Song Dynasty 9 centuries ago.

 

[weiwuwei]

JUst so you know, the yarrow method we have today is very likely not the original, but was reinvented by Zhuxi in the Song Dynasty 9 centuries ago.

I got a lot of stuff about the I Ching to learn I guess, good thing I joined here!

 

[rodaki]

BTW if you were thinking about this method, I accidentally wrote "young yin" next to young yang and vice versa, though the line and probabilities were correct. I edited the original post with the correct info. So if you were thinking about this, take a look at the edited post.

hm, this way doesn't make much sense from where I'm sitting - mainly because it's shown to end up in such narrow results . . if that wasn't a given to begin with, I 'ld probably give it a try . Or it could be I'm a bit traditional about casting? Come to think of it, there's a cozy feeling in keeping a 'norm' in that, maybe perhaps a sense of familiarity or safety. Besides, my experience has shown me that each time I tried some other method, results have mostly turned against me (and I don't say this without a sense of loss attached). So for now I'll stick with more traditional values - even if no one knows that they're what was meant to be to begin with. Thanks for suggesting it though