Unchanging readings - how common are they?

[__dru__]

Hello everyone

I have been getting a *lot* of unchanging readings lately, and wonder how common these are?

They all point in the same direction - '...be patient and concentrate on the small things, because something is about to change,' but as I say - I just wonder how common it is to get them.

Thanks

 

[diamanda]

This thread belongs to Exploring Divination, I hope a moderator moves it.
I checked my archive, got 21% unchanging ones in 2018 and 20% in 2019.

 

[Trojina]

There's only Rosada so if it's not reported it won't be moved unless she happens to see it.

UC readings are pretty common. We have a thread for people's experiences of unchanging hexagrams, well a thread for each hexagram. Also there is a thread discussing unchanging hexagrams in general here

You Experiences With Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 0

As was suggested, we're creating a thread here to capture general information, experiences and findings in relation to Unchanging Castings. There are 64 threads that will follow this one detailing experience with each Hexagram in its Unchanging form. Please register any overall experience with...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Here is the page that links to all the UC threads

List of unchanging hexagrams threads

Here are our threads so far about meanings of/ experiences with each hexagram unchanging: Unchanging hexagrams generally Hexagram 1, Creative Hexagram 2, Earth Hexagram 3, Sprouting Hexagram 4, Not Knowing Hexagram 5, Waiting Hexagram 6, Arguing Hexagram 7, Army Hexagram 8, Seeking Union...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[IrfanK]

From the point of view of mathematical probability, it's around 18%.

 

[IrfanK]

0	0.177978515625
1	0.35595703125
2	0.296630859375
3	0.1318359375
4	0.032958984375
5	0.00439453125
6	0.000244140625

 

[Freedda]

From the point of view of mathematical probability, it's around 18%

Probabilities change depending on which method you use to get a response from the Yi.

 

[IrfanK]

Probabilities change depending on which method you use to get a response from the Yi.

Yes, sorry, I was assuming the three-coin method. Completely different (and fiendishly complicated) to work it all out for yarrow sticks. Suffice to say that the chance of getting hex 1 with six changing lines with the sticks is maybe less likely than winning a major lottery. Other methods may be different again.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Is there a difference using coins or sticks?
Then how do you know which oracle is truly the one you need to hear?

Or is it like the oracle were saying the same thing but in two different languages?

 

[Freedda]

Other methods may be different again.

Here's a fun YouTube video from Harmen Mesker called 'How (not) to Consult the I Ching' (from his YiTube channel).

At location 9:00/31:06 he talks about, Rule No. 6 - "use yarrow stalks, not coins ..." Pretty fun and informative. (Spoiler alert: it makes no difference which method we use, as long as it involves 'meaningful', or random, chance. )

 

[IrfanK]

At location 9:00/31:06 he talks about, Rule No. 6 - "use yarrow stalks, not coins ..." Pretty fun and informative. (Spoiler alert: it makes no difference which method we use, as long as it involves 'meaningful', or random, chance. )

I've seen that one. I'm a big fan of Harmen. I agree that there's no right way or wrong way, but not that it makes no difference. For example, I don't like computer generated hexagrams. There's too many electronic devices in my life already, so I don't like using I Ching apps. I just don't trust them. Nothing rational, but it makes a difference to me.

 

[Freedda]

.... I don't like computer generated hexagrams. There's too many electronic devices in my life already, so I don't like using I Ching apps. I just don't trust them. Nothing rational, but it makes a difference to me.

Well, that's about as fine a reason as one could have. It just doesn't work for you, and/or you just don't like it! That's a 'rule' I can get behind.

Best, D.

 

[Button]

Off thread question:

I just saw the video and I loved it, it's the most liberal approach to yi I've seen. I've been doing the same, but felt a bit like a criminal for not following all the rules.
Several times Harmen Mesker mentions that you'll always get an answer and the Oracle will not give an answer that you're not able to understand.
Sometimes the answer is "stop fooling around" but is still an answer....
But the second part...do you guys really believe that?
It's like saying that life won't give you anything you can't handle, and that is just not true. I see people that can not handle what life is giving them every day. The mental institutions are full of them. What if it's the same with yijing? What if one just doesn't have the capacity or all the information to understand the answer? What if it's a paradox? Is there anything written in the original sources about the limits of Yi?

Ani,
Yijing challenged

 

[mandarin_23]

As to me, it really depends on the hexagram! There are unchanging hexagrams I really get all the time, for example around 50 Percent of all hexagram 2 readings are 2 uc. With other hexagrams, there are no or hardly any unchanged readings. There is no rule, I suppose; also there are some favourite lines I get a lot, even combinations of maybe 3 lines which turn up very often.

When reading unchanged hexagrams, I read it more as a consideration, such as an aspect or an image of the whole situation I'm thinking about.

 

[Trojina]

I just saw the video and I loved it, it's the most liberal approach to yi I've seen.

Anyone who has been around here for any amount of time will be more than familiar with the ideas on there. None of those ideas are new or radical or especially liberal, Hilary has been saying this kind of thing for years as have many many others on here over the last 20 years including me. To be fair it's not claimed that somehow Harmen just invented this approach, he isn't claiming that, he's just rounding up various misconceptions and tackling them in a video. It's just beginning to grate that these basic things that have been discussed on here are now being accredited to Harmen from that video. He didn't invent any of that.....just saying.

Several times Harmen Mesker mentions that you'll always get an answer and the Oracle will not give an answer that you're not able to understand.

If that were true this forum would be out of business, would have been out of business 20 years ago! The I Ching does give one answers one can't understand at the time of casting though understanding may come in time. There are many answers one doesn't understand....if there weren't I don't think the shared readings section would be quite so jam packed full of readings for the last 20 years.

 

[Freedda]

Harmen just invented this approach, he isn't claiming that, he's just rounding up various misconceptions and tackling them in a video. It's just beginning to grate that these basic things that have been discussed on here are now being accredited to Harmen from that video.

Yes, Harmen has never claimed that he invented anything. But if things being repeated here bugs you so much, then maybe don't read them. Others might still find them interesting and relevant.

 

[Freedda]

Off thread question:

Just a suggestion. If you start a new threat with your question then it will no longer be an 'off-thread question'

D

 

[IrfanK]

Anyone who has been around here for any amount of time will be more than familiar with the ideas on there. None of those ideas are new or radical or especially liberal, Hilary has been saying this kind of thing for years as have many many others on here over the last 20 years including me. To be fair it's not claimed that somehow Harmen just invented this approach, he isn't claiming that, he's just rounding up various misconceptions and tackling them in a video. It's just beginning to grate that these basic things that have been discussed on here are now being accredited to Harmen from that video. He didn't invent any of that.....just saying.






If that were true this forum would be out of business, would have been out of business 20 years ago! The I Ching does give one answers one can't understand at the time of casting though understanding may come in time. There are many answers one doesn't understand....if there weren't I don't think the shared readings section would be quite so jam packed full of readings for the last 20 years.

Trojina, I think the way the forum is organized, it's inevitable that the same questions and ideas will come up again and again. It's possible, but not that easy, to search to see if a question has been asked before, but ...

Even after just a couple of months following the forum, I can see people asking the same questions I asked a while back. It's kind of interesting seeing people go through the same thought processes. I think frequently repeated questions are inevitable. Maybe more stickies or an expanded FAQ could reduce it? Or maybe we just have to accept it!

 

[Trojina]

Trojina, I think the way the forum is organized, it's inevitable that the same questions and ideas will come up again and again. It's possible, but not that easy, to search to see if a question has been asked before, but ...

Even after just a couple of months following the forum, I can see people asking the same questions I asked a while back. It's kind of interesting seeing people go through the same thought processes. I think frequently repeated questions are inevitable. Maybe more stickies or an expanded FAQ could reduce it? Or maybe we just have to accept it!

Yes of course the same questions will come up again and again, that is inevitable. I really have no problem with that, I didn't even say I had did I ? You maybe misunderstood, this wasn't about the questions at all.


I shouldn't have posted the gripe but I did so well there it is. My gripe was not about any question being asked but all those ideas being accredited to Harmen when they have been talked about here for the last 20 odd years by many members and Hilary. Also all those ideas will be found in Hilary's courses and posts and well everywhere so when Button said

I just saw the video and I loved it, it's the most liberal approach to yi I've seen. I've been doing the same, but felt a bit like a criminal for not following all the rules.

I have to admit I found it quite irritating (no offence to Button who is new) and not for the first time that all the content of the video is seen as all Harmen's ideas. As I said to be fair he himself never presented it as such he was just collating ideas together for a video, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with posting links to the video either, indeed no one did anything wrong what grates on my nerves is all those ideas being (albeit unwittingly) accredited to one person who made a video. But there's nothing I can do about that it's the way of the world, it's inevitable.

And it's not just in this area it's everywhere. For example I recall Hilary raving about Robert Moss's book on dreaming and I had the same feeling that he was being credited for ideas that were being written about when I was 12 and before. A lot of what he wrote was repackaged yet the blurb as I recall made out this was all new stuff. It happens everywhere as you get older you have to accept it I suppose because you will see it more and more. You know you'll hear on the TV Boy George was the first male pop singer to wear dresses and of course I'm calling out at the TV 'no he wasn't, there was Mick Jagger for a start !'.

So when Button says he never ever came across such a liberal approach to Yi on this occasion I allowed myself to point out this really is not a whole bunch of new ideas thought up by Harmen. People have been discussing this and coming to the same conclusions for years here. I've been telling people here they don't need special conditions to cast for the last 20 years here so have other people.

So I think it was a gripe better not posted but it isn't a personal gripe against any individual but it does get to be a bit much to see someone innocently saying these ideas are the most liberal he ever saw when Hilary's written about this stuff years ago, so have many many others. But yes it's the first time Button ever came across it so naturally he would say 'wow I never saw this before' but yes it's all been said before it's just been repackaged in a video. Very useful for newbies, can't knock it so pardon me for expressing how it grates on me--- gnash gnash. If you aren't a newbie it can also be grating to be offered instruction on things you have been doing/known for years as if it were all the greatest thing since sliced bread - but I am aware not everything is posted for my benefit, there are newbies - so yes an occasion where I'd have been better off keeping it zipped but as my post was already quoted there was no point deleting it.


And as I said yes people continually must repackage old knowledge, we can't continually refer back to the very first time, if there was a first time, that an idea came to light. Very often as with those ideas in that video the ideas and understandings came together from many people at the same time. You know I remember actually threads about conditions needed to cast Yi and many of us saying there really were no special conditions required because of course we'd been casting in all sorts of places for years, we had found it out for ourselves, there was no need of an 'expert' to tell us. And so when someone says 'ah it's all this expert's new ideas' well it isn't but it is a shortcut way to realising things about consulting without having to live through it so that's good. Although in the end you have to find what works for you anyway.

 

[Button]

I'm sorry I caused all this. I apologise if I offended someone, it wasn't my intention.

 

[Trojina]

Not offended at all don't worry, just having a gripe that was there long long before you arrived. Probably shouldn't have so sorry to make you feel bad for something you needn't feel bad for.

Also sorry for thread derailing.....

 

[Freedda]

unchanging readings ... how common these are?

Looking back at the initial query ... in summary, it seems the answer might be, it depends:

* There are of course the statistics and probabilities, which tell us that we will get unchanging hexagrams 17% of the time, or thereabouts (using the coin method).

* Or, if we're using another equally relevant method, that we'll get another set of probabilities.

* Or, that despite the 'stats', we will always get reading that we can then work with - or at least so says the disputed, but wise and benevolent guru of the Yi! (and it's a irrelevant if the response is unchanging or not ...)

* Or, maybe someone has another better answer to Dru's question?

* Or am I being too repetitive here?