Understanding & Resolving Conflict

[malka]

Good Morning!

Recently I experienced some conflict with a friend. I consulted Yi about offering a picture of the current conditions surrounding us:

13.2 > 1

Alfred Huang's translation (I finally bought this book and love it!) leaves me with the impression that we are both seeking harmony and union within an atmosphere that has much creative potential. But the line speaks about humiliation and an exclusivity that I am not aware of in our situation. I'm unsure about accepting this line as simply a warning, or as a true description of what's happening with us?

I then asked about the best approach for me to take toward my friend:

10.3 > 1

It's interesting to me that the corresponding hexagram is once again 1. This suggests to me that there is true creative potential in our situation. I also understand that 10 speaks about conduct and the appropriate way to proceed. But that was my question! 10 itself says the tiger won't bite -- but line 3 is very clear to the contrary. Here's what's confusing: my question aksed for the best approach for me to take. Should I then interprete this as a direct answer? If yes, then I'm being told to move ahead in a way that is like the weak following the strong. I'm being told to take the plunge, right? I SHOULD move forward? (In this case, I'd probably contact my friend.) Or, do I also read this line as warning and therefore not a direct answer to my question, and therefore I should not take any action?

Thank you in advance for your 2 cents on all this.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[malka]

Because there were dangers described above, and because I recently read an article of Hilary's that spoke about asking follow-up questions in such situations, I also asked the following:

How can I avoid the dangers described in the above readings? 47.1.3.4 > 5

What result to calling my friend this week? 34.5 > 43

This has me very confused -- no help! I'm too close to see these readings in conext or to understand them. I welcome your good ideas and perspective!!

Blessings,
Malka

 

[Frankelmick]

Malka,

Happy Chanukah!

Maybe it's time to try to relax a little bit with your friend?

The links back to Hx 1 seem to say that there's tremendous creative potential in your situation with your friend.

But perhaps 13,2 asks you to just ease up a little bit. Maybe let things go more than you might otherwise do? Forgive.

I hope that in 2004 you will feel that you don't have to consult the I Ching so much. I hope that you will trust your feelings more.

Be gezint,

Mick

 

[malka]

Mick, thanks for the feedback and for the happy Chanukah wishes! So, you think that I consult the Yi too much, huh? Interesting. I guess I don't entirely agree with this. There are others on this forum, I'm thinking of one person in particular, who seems to ask Yi for confirmation and insight into every little move and I'm pretty sure this person has never received this same feedback. I might be wrong about that, but it is confusing. Perhaps it seems I've asked for too much assistance on this board. If that is the case, well people can choose to not respond I guess. Not sure what else to say about this. Oh well.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[malka]

By the way, it is me who has forgiven my friend, but I'm not sure that I've been forgiven.

 

[joang]

Hi Malka...
I think Mick may have got you mixed up with someone else. You haven't asked the forum anything in a long while, unless it was in a thread I didn't read.

Anyway, here's my 2 cents worth...
In WB's commentary on 13.3 it says:
"Here fellowship has changed about to mistrust. Each man distrusts the other, plans a secret ambush, and seeks to spy on his fellow from afar. We are dealing with an obstinate opponent whom we cannot come at by this method. Obstacles standing in the way of fellowship with others are shown here. One has mental reservations for one's own part and seeks to take his opponent by surprise. This very fact makes one mistrustful, suspecting the same wiles in his opponent and trying to ferret them out. The result is that one departs further and further from true fellowship. The longer this goes on, the more alienated one becomes."

47 bears out the idea where it says in the Judgement: "When one has something to say, It is not believed."

The idea I get from this is that something like jealousy may have caused one or both of you to mistrust the other. Once trust is lost, it is difficult to regain, but not impossible. I think fellowship with men in the open, in this case means to be genuinely open with eachother, cast aside past suspicions, and be willing to trust again.

The important thing,imo, is to patiently remain cheerful and strong, and not let yourself stray into a gloomy valley and become oppressed by something which ought not oppress you. Possibly there was no real justification for the mistrust in the first place.

I hope that helps.
Namaste,
Joan

 

[malka]

Joan, thank you very much. I want to ask you, I'm unsure if it's a typo, but I didn't receive 13.3 I actually received 13.2 so I don't know which W/B translation you offered. I am traveling at the moment, and the only book I have with me is my new Alfred Huang book.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[joang]

Malka,
my apologies. You said 13.1, and 10.3, so it seems I transposed them and gave you 13.3. yikes...

I'll take another look.

 

[tashiiij]

malka , i received plenty of moralizing about throwing the iching from friends for a long time. it acomplished nothing. in fact, when i came to this board, i found people who had the same interest in the iching and actually studied it and accomplished inspiring scholarship in the time it took for my friends to cast doubt for all those years.

but guess who these intellectual friends come to when they have a ghost in their house, or someone they love dies, or need a hunch for how a romance will work out. moi.

since finding the forum and learning from the community here, i throw 90 percent less, understand much more.

that's just my learning curve i guess. my point is, it is valid to study the changes if it speaks to you.

it is all well and good to trust oneself, no argument there. however there are times when trusting oneself is not all it's cracked up to be. there are wisdoms transmitted thru many different channels. i ching is very powerful. there is something to the study of the yi -- even if it all does come down to a deck of cards or a bunch of lines.

just my two cents of support.

 

[malka]

Joan, sorry for the confusion. It's actually:

13.2 that changes to 1

and

10.3 that changes to 1

Thank you.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[malka]

Tash, thanks for your support. Only I know how often I use the Yi and I'm comfortable with my level of usage at this time. I believe that Mick means well so no hard feelings.

I tend to take the view that patience is the highest form of devotion and the greatest teacher. I expect my usage will rise and fall with the times. For now, I find that I'm learning a tremendous amount from my own reading, from this forum, and from life.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[gene]

Somewhere, sometime in the past, I did a page on 13.2. While a lot of what I wrote there wouldn't apply here, I think there is an interesting thing in this line. It is central, correct, and has a corresponding relationship with line 5. So why is it so negative? The nuclear hexagram is 44. This indicates a situation where a couple are coming to meet. Often in the energy field of 44, this is not a positive thing. This is a yin line that is "hemmed in" by two strong yang lines. As a yin line it is also inactive. (See Greg Whincup's commentary on this.) The destructive energies of hexagram 44 are thus turned in upon itself. There may, and I say this only tentatively, be not enough of an outlet between the two of you to allow for outside expression, as such you turn in on each other. An old song my mother used to sing, "you always hurt the one you love." And I am not talking about romantic love here. Strangers we don't care so much about. Our friends we do, so those are the people we end up having the conflict with. This line, like line one of 44 is the only yin line contesting with or for 5 yang lines. The context is not nearly so competitive here, but there is still danger in the situation.

And now, hexagram 1. Normally the strongly active hexagram is auspicious, but it doesn't have to be. Hexagram one can be too strong. There is nothing to moderate it. And line 2 of hexagram one is, "dragon appearing in the field." This is normally auspicious, but it doesn't have to be. The dragon has power of its own, and if that power is not tamed, and channelled properly, it can turn and bite, as in 10.3

I think 10.3 is counselling you to not push too hard here, not take any too much initiative, but maintain a moderate stance. Again you received hexagram 1 as the relating...Line 3 of 1 says, "All day the lord is active, at night he remains alert. There is danger, but he comes to no harm. This is because he is alert, like the little fox in hexagram 63 and 64 who listens for any possible cracking of the ice.

I would be really curious to know if this strikes any kind of resonant chord in you.

Gene

 

[joang]

Malka,
I didn't forget about you. I was called away unexpectedly right after I posted, and didn't get back til dinnertime (had to do without lunch). Glad Tash and Gene stepped in.

Sorry about the mixup; that was my fault entirely. Too frazzled now after today's events to be of any use, so I'll have to let the matter rest now and see what tomorrow is like.

Namaste,
Joan

 

[malka]

Joan, I'm so sorry to hear you've had a frazzled day. Not to worry about getting back to me. This one isn't brain surgery, and I understand the mix-up so no problem. Take a look at where I've come since I started this thread and your feedback may be different entirely.

Gene, Thank you for the interesting feedback. That 44 can sure be something else. My friend is male, but there is not a romantic relationship between us. We'd loosely dicussed exploring that at one point, however. You wrote:

"The destructive energies of hexagram 44 are thus turned in upon itself. There may, and I say this only tentatively, be not enough of an outlet between the two of you to allow for outside expression, as such you turn in on each other."

I'm not sure if I truly know what you mean by an "outlet between us" but I do believe you've hit this right on the nose in terms of us having turned in on each other. Recently I verbally snapped at him about something small when I was really more upset about something else (that had nothing to do with him.) But, it has turned into something huge. He hasn't accepted my numerous apologies. Though I've taken enormous resposibility, too much even, he hasn't been open to this, nor has he accepted an inch of responsibility for his part in this (a fact I actually forgive.)

I think you are right again with hexagram 1. I do tend to think of this as a positive hexagram. I think -- wow, creative engergy and lots of potential. But your point is well-taken: when is the energy too strong? When does it become not as positive? Is this only when the energy is expressed as 35? Or can 1 be very great, maybe too great as well? Hexagram 1 in this case FEELS like there are a great many possibilities between and around us.

Before reading your post, a few hours ago I left my friend a simple voicemail message saying I hoped to talk and "make peace" and asked that he "meet me half-way." I haven't heard anything back. But there was something very freeing about leaving that message. A part of me released from this situation. I know that have done all I can both ethically and morally to work through this. Now the ball is fully in his court to "meet me half-way." Perhaps there is 44 coming out again, too. I wonder if he somehow feels the temptation is dangerous?

There is something in Judaism where if we've asked for forgiveness three times, and the person doesn't forgive us, then the burden transfers to them. From a Jewish spiritual view, G-d wants us to makeup, to return (it's called Teshuva) to forgive each other. The returning is actually a return back to the spiritual path.

I'm not sure if the voice message I left is consistent with taking a "moderate stance," as you suggest. But I do feel that I will come to no harm as a result. I also feel it's appropriate that I not take any further action on this. I do wonder -- might the dragon turn out to be him? Will he come after me now and bite? I guess I'll find out.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[Frankelmick]

Joan,

There was no mix-up. I knew that I was talking to Malka.

Mick

 

[gene]

Malka

I wonder...sometimes I think we fool ourselves about friendships with the opposite sex...friendships between the sexes in most cases have to go one way or the other...and that may unconsciously be causing some tension between you. We start off as just friends, but if we carry that too far...often we do that to cover up our anxieties, fear of commitment etc., and continue with it in order not to scare the other person away. This may be creating some tension, I don't know.

I don't invalidate the wisdom of three times, then it is their turn. That can become an escape hatch though, to continue holding a grudge because the other person didn't do their part. I know that Judeaism isn't Christianity, but if you will permit, just a little note from christian teaching..."shall we forgive seven times? nay but 70 times 7." In other words, forget about who's burden it is, forget about what they are doing or not doing, and just let it be without emotional attachment. That is hard to do, I know.

My biggest fear for you here is that this could blow up bigger and bigger, and perhaps the real issue may not being discussed at all, and that may be the real unspoken desires regarding what the relationship really is, rather than just what you are both saying it is.

Gene

 

[malka]

Gene, you make some good points and I feel you are correct that there is some unspoken stuff between us. When I wrote about the Jewish teaching of asking for forgiveness three times, then it becoming the other's burden -- I didn't intend for that to sound as though I would hold a grudge. Although I can see how that could happen. Rather, I find comfort in the teaching in that it somewhat releases me. In this case, if he won't release me (forgive), at least G-d does. In the Christian tradition you speak about, is the teaching to actually do alot of forgiving of others? Or is it to ask repeatedly for forgiveness in the same situation?

Yi aside, my intuition is that something is going on with him that he hasn't told me. I hear your fear for me, that the dragon may appear or the tiger may bite. What I can say at this point is that I've truly let this go for now so I don't anticipate a blow up. I've done what I can to apologize and reconnect. The next step, if there is to be one, belongs to him.

Mick will now be further convinced that I use Yi too often (although I don't agree!) but I did check in with Yi to see where things stand with us following my voice mail message and all. I received 5 with lines 3 and 4 changing to 58. Again, just as in the readings above, the lines are far worse than the hexagrams. With all this mud and the ditch, it doesn't look too promising for my friend to come back anytime soon. Ouch.

For the sake of learning, this does raise for me the questions of 01 energy possibly being too powerful or too much. Can it become like 35? Is it just creative POTENTIAL or is it POWER too?

Blessings,
Malka

 

[malka]

Oops -- I didn't mean 35 above which I realize is actually PROGRESS. I meant 34 GREAT STRENGTH.

 

[gene]

Hi Malka

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying you were holding a grudge, just that that can happen. As far as the forgiving goes, I think it means both situations. One just has to be careful about mental attitudes, because we can certainly deceive ourselves about being unconditionally loving. We appear to ourselves like we are when we truly aren't, and I've experienced that one a lot myself. (A meditation teacher I once had was a strong believer in being nonjudgmental. I agree with him, but I must make the distinction between what I perceive as judgments, and discernments. To me judgments have an emotional connotation. "That man committed a crime. I hope he gets the death penalty three times." vs "That man committed a crime, the law says the penalty for this is 20 years, that's what he will get." No emotional attachment to the decision, if I am making any sense here.) I always cringe a little bit when I see cop shows when the cops are berating the suspect, showering him/her with insults. (Just the facts ma'am) But that is a judgment of my own, which I could do without. Judgments etc. can be very subtle.

Anyway. I think we have to be careful about taking a hexagram and saying, this is what it means, this and only this, nothing else, not that, only this. When we do that we limit the way the messenger can send his/her message. Of course we can't give it free lattitude to mean anything we would prefer that it means too. The intuition has to play a role. We just need to be careful not to make it mean what we want it to mean. Hexagram 1 is the archetypical yang energy and such it does what yang does. And both yang and yin have their positive and negative. There is true yang and false yang. True yin and false yin. Someday I hope to write more about that, but I am getting kind of wordy now. The point is that yang is often perceived as the positive good energy, the light. But when it gets out of hand, it can create wars, beat people up, etc etc etc. Well, you know what I mean I suspect.

Merry Christmas
Gene

 

[malka]

Update: Well, after leaving that voicemail for my friend back on December 23, I made no further contact with him. I felt there was nothing more I could do, as I had apologized several times with no response from him.

Then, out of the blue, I heard from him last week. It was a pleasant surprise to hear HIS apology, and his insisting that I had nothing to apologize to him about! Isn't it funny about the way things go? So, "don't push too hard" "ease up" and similar interpretations of my reading were appropriate indeed. I left things alone and he came around on his own time. I warmly accepted his apology.

Thanks for your help!

Blessings,
Malka