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Personally I prefer fewer changing lines but that is because I am lazy by nature and more moving lines often means more work to do. But for me the general idea of moving lines is this: a moving line means that there is too much yin or yang at that location. 'Too much' means that it is not balanced, and that is why the line is changing to regain balance. The more moving lines the more there is to rebalance.... but that does leave me with another burning question: why was I thinking that having fewer changing lines is better than more changing lines? Best, David.
Welcome to the club, everyone does.But personally I find it easier to work with
I don't. I don't prefer readings with fewer change lines to more, the reading is the reading. The more change lines the more the relating hexagram comes to the fore, or the more the primary is 'tipping over' to it. Also there's the change patterns to consider - and also with more change lines I think it's a case of stepping back as it were to get the bigger picture just as you would need to step away from a large painting to get a better view of it.Welcome to the club, everyone does.
Have you considered that the special text for 1 and 2 is enough of a hint to comprehend how to read multiple lines?
Hilary says for example Gua 'A' Zhi 'B' Gua. I say something a little different, which is really nothing more than grammatical preference: a very B A.
(hex B being a qualitative descriptor of A)
In 8.5 (2) this is really easy to see
Do explain about 1 and 2 ?
I do exactly the same, zoom in, zoom out, in, out. Then I notice that the overarching message is when zoomed real out. (sure I can see elements when there are two lines, but, to me, it feels like noticing the fresh paint on a street sign instead of the message of the sign)but for me it's also often a case of zooming in with few lines and zooming out
So, you enjoy work.I don't prefer readings with fewer change lines to more.
Bradford: Observe a group of dragons - without a leader
I get you. I think it's just the same when you have 4 or 5 change lines in any hexagram, the dialogue then becomes about the transformation of each into the other. I wouldn't completely ignore what for example 4 change lines say but they'd be quieter, just part of the change.is line 1 relevant? no.
There is no counsel not to act. (because of the hidden 44)
Is line 6 relevant? Nope.
There is no counsel against arrogance or exceeding ones power.
So, all these lines do is graphically represent the only way possible to get 2 as a relating using the Yi's coding system.
The lines become meaningless.
Marry hex 1 and hex 2 and you get the meaning as written with the special text. (dragon(s)= 1 + having no leader at first=2)
No don't remember.(remember my story of the friend and his 1>(2) situation? (he saw a group of entertainers, musicians, jugglers, and dancers who didn't have a leader, so he became their leader.)
So, all you have to do is marry the two hex's to understand the meaning. (individual line texts are already 'married' for us and apply the most when there is only one of them)
I do exactly the same, zoom in, zoom out, in, out. Then I notice that the overarching message is when zoomed real out. (sure I can see elements when there are two lines, but, to me, it feels like noticing the fresh paint on a street sign instead of the message of the sign)
So, you enjoy work.
Good for you.
Whatever our preferences are regarding the number of lines, or how we choose to interpret them, I think we can agree on the above. And as baby bear said, "Someone's been sleeping in my bed (and asking questions of the I Ching) and she's still there!"... the reading is the reading.
the reading is the reading.
Whatever our preferences are regarding the number of lines, or how we choose to interpret them, I think we can agree on the above.
And as baby bear said, "Someone's been sleeping in my bed (and asking questions of the I Ching) and she's still there!"
Agreed, however the 'we' of my post was the few of us active on this thread, and our discussion was about how to deal with the lines we do get in a reading, not those we don't. I can't remember if harmen's rules covers this or not?You'd be surprised at the growing trend amongst newbies to read hexagrams and lines they did not cast at all ...
Well, it was written while it was perhaps too early, dark and cold here, and i wasn't quite awake, but ... our discussion of the number of lines reminded me of the 3 bears too hot/too cold, too big/too small, too hard/too soft story, where in the end you end up with the reading you get, lines and all: missing porrage, a broken chair, and a strange young girl in your bed! (admittedly obscure).You've lost me I don't know what this illustrates ?
One of the reasons this happens is because the author of Ichingonline does it.You'd be surprised at the growing trend amongst newbies to read hexagrams and lines they did not cast at all that isinstead of the answer they did cast.
When I went to the site, and did a query "what is wrong with this website?" it gave me 57.3.6 > 29. It did highlight my changing lines (3, 6) in red but you are right, you can then click on any of the lines and read about that line regardless if they are 'moving' or not.One of the reasons this happens is because the author of Ichingonline does it.
Very short instruction for the Changing Lines:
Changing Lines transform into their polar opposite during the course of your consultation.
When there are more than one lines changing, there is a problem in interpretation; if these lines are contradictory, which one to choose?
At I Ching Online we have chosen to apply a set of rules to determine the one Changing Line that prevails as an answer to your question.
This one Changing Line is selected initially, but you can read about any Changing (red) Line by clicking on it.
Changing Lines are part of the answer to your question, but any NON-changing (black) Line can be read as well by clicking on it.
(Clicking the Hexagram Lines tab again will reset.)
Although this set of rules is old and widespread, it is just one of many methods that can be found to handle this delicate issue.
Consider it a guideline, which is not compelling at all.
The following rules are applied for the seven possible number of changing lines:
There are no Changing Lines.
Read only the Cast Hexagram.
There is one Changing Line.
Consult this changing line.
There are two Changing Lines.
If both lines are Six (Old Yin) or Nine (Old Yang), the Upper Line applies.
If one is Six and the other Nine, the Six prevails. (* See "Instruction page".)
There are three Changing Lines.
The middle line counts.
There are four Changing Lines.
Read the upper NON-changing line.
There are five Changing Lines.
Read the only NON-changing line.
All lines are Changing.
Only the Transformed Hexagram applies.
With two exceptions: If all lines are Six or all lines are Nine, read both Cast Hexagram and Transformed Hexagram.
It might be left to us then to continue to do remediation and recommend this site instead for readings and instruction.
I wonder, do we really know that Alfred Huang's method of dealing with the moving lines is wrong or faulty? Or is it just how people are applying it?Thanks! Now I know who to blame.
I really know it's wrong.I wonder, do we really know that Alfred Huang's method of dealing with the moving lines is wrong or faulty?
That is not a method of interpretation.Bradford Hatcher (vol II) describes a method which designates a certain line or lines as the 'ruling' lines for each hexagram, which are said to capture the essence or character of that hexagram - Line 5 for Hex. 1, Line 6 for Hex 23 and so on.
I do not disagree at all. I was mainly expressing my curiosity (and ignorance) about this practice or method. I will only add that a lot of 'methods of interpretation' shared and used on this site are 'in addition to' the I Ching; for example, Shadow (and Ideal) hexagrams, some of the various methods of nuclear hexagram interpretation, The Patterns (hexagrams) of Change; different ways of interpreting the trigrams, and so on. I get the sense that sometimes we pick what works for us - often regardless of its source - but then if we don't like some other method we'll say "that's not part of the original Yi," or "that came so much later," or some such thing.I really know it's wrong. It was made about 1400 years after the Zhou Yi, by a Confucian scholar from a different clan of people who focused his studies on other books (instead of I Ching).
Again, I don't disagree. I was only wondering if this 'recognition' of certain lines might be what is behind some of the methods that have us select and read only one moving line (over others). Again, a question of curiosity about something I know very little about.That is not a method of interpretation. That is simply recognition that certain lines 'embody the spirit' of the Hexagram, having a meaning that is close to or same as the Image or Hex meaning as a whole. He is not telling you to ignore some lines and embrace others
Yep. I'd say that there is a whole bunch of stuff on the web about the I Ching that is wrong or faulty (or lame or just plain crap), or is maybe just confusing. Whatever we call it, it certainly muddles people's understanding and use of the Yi.I don't think anyone is saying it is wrong or faulty in itself if that is what a person chooses but for newbies using online casting tools so they sometimes don't even know what a change line is, well it just compounds the confusion. I had wondered why total newbies who weren't yet clear on how to cast a hexagram by hand, no clear idea of how lines connected to relating hexagram yet, were showing up with all these rules that appear to make sure one never actually considers the answer received. Doesn't seem a great way to start, they would be better off just doing the free beginners course here then exploring other methods later if they want.
Sorry, slow as a wet week here. Yes, I'd blame Google too. We'll have to buy them out.yes I do think this place, SR at least, mops up all the troubled misinformed people from those kinds of places but why are they being used [MENTION=252]hilary[/MENTION] instead of the online casting tool here ? As a regular respondent in SR I have to say I think they, the sites in question, are a nuisance. I guess it must be they appear first in Google or whatever.
It all depends upon how one breaks apart the hexagram, and put them back together again.Many ways to read multiple lines, Hilary has a recent Blog post on it. You can read them as a story, chronologically, as alternatives etc but for me it's also often a case of zooming in with few lines and zooming out, like a camera lens for more lines. With many lines I don't think it's necessary to place too much emphasis on each line - but you already know what I think I imagine - I just piped up to say not everyone has any preference for less/more change lines.
PO Box 6945,
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