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Weighing the balance with 47

zeldiac

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I'm concerned about the health of a close relative. For most of his life (he is mid 40's) he has maintained a sensible body weight. In the past few years however he has gone from being an average weight to obese.

When we recently met up I was shocked to note the amount of weight he has piled on. Talking to him (delicately) about this I noticed he is in denial. He said he regularly goes to the gym as he always did. But how can gym workouts maintain obesity?

He enjoys food and always did. My feeling is that he is a secret over-eater. I've recently read about the condition and I guess it fits.

I want to help him to face what he is doing to himself. I care deeply about him. I decided to write him a letter, because although we speak by phone I think a letter would be better. But by writing to him will I damage our close family relationship? He is very strong willed and stubborn, and I know he can be easily offended. Being in some kind of denial I assume he will be offended by my letter. But I'm willing to take a chance if it means a route to helping him shed the weight and avoid serious health problems.

I aksed Yi: How best am I to convey my health concerns to him?

I could do with a little help please. Primary is 47 changing at 2, 4 & 6. Relating 2.

My general interpretation is that the reading reflects my worries about his health. And my feeling of helplessness in addressing the situation. I don't want to interfere, but I think I should try to help him face his problems. Would anyone like to give me an interpretation?

Best wishes
Zelda
 

julie

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Do you mean changing at 2, 4 and 5? Otherwise, 47 doesn't change to 2.

Julie
 

hilary

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True.
47, anyway - 'How best to convey your concerns?'
'Not in words.'
Or at least, not in words until other things have changed. I think that'll be true no matter what the moving lines.
 

zeldiac

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Yes my mistake - I meant 2,4, & 5. Thanks both for your responses
Z
 

jte

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Perhaps urge him to see a doctor, who will be able to give an assessment to him with a greater level of credibility (in his eyes). I think the doctor can let him know that his pleasure might be about to "drain away" and can give him specific, concrete steps to take to start dealing with the issue. Also, that way you can have the more casual level of concern indicated as appropriate for line 5.

"Oppressed while at meat and drink" indeed - that's cute on the Yi's part. Really not a laughing matter though, as I'm sure it knows, too. I think your interest in helping him is very commendable, Z.

- Jeff
 
J

jesed

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Hi Zeldiac

Just in case the comment could be useful

A little thing of order: before asking how to help somebody, is wise to know what is happening and its causes.

You could find useful to do the next dialogue, in this order:
a) general diagnosis of X's health
b) deeper causes of X's situation
c) What should I do to help X?

Be aware, not necesarly you should "convey" your concerns to him: sometimes is enough give another people a space to talk HIM, other times, you need to give general emotional support without talking about the specific toruble; another times, you must not do anything, some times you need to take a proactive aproach.. and so on

Hope the answers to this dialogue give you most clarity.

best wishes
 

zeldiac

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Thanks for your opinions guys. I've followed the suggestion above of a,b,c dialogue. Some interesting answers have resulted. I'm still considering them.

Primaries are 21, 31 & 61 (food again - grisly meat) with changing lines 1,4,6 & 5 & 2,6 respectively. Relating are 2, 62 and 3. I will give more consideration to the readings before posting again. I'm trying to assess if my involvement could change things for the better for my relative. He is such a special and good person. I hate to see what is happening to him.

Z
 
J

jesed

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Hi Zeldiac

Not only interesting but powerful answers????

Wish you the best in your discernment of this answers. Remain with hope, this is a dificult situation, and needs a lot of truthness and pacience... but has a good prospection for the future

Best wishes
 

femke

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Hi Zelda

Interesting question & answers. I'm really in doubt as to the meaning of this hex with moving lines.
-Who does it refer to, you or him? Who's exhausted? Who is in problems at wine and spices? And who puts his life at risk by following his will? Stating it like this, I would answer he is. But you asked the question about yourself, so would expect the answer to relate to this, wouldn't you? It might be important, in order to seperate your from his behavior.
If he is the topic, than you could be the king's delegate with the red knee caps (pardon my english translation).
But in the fifth line, I would say you could be the one with the "cut off nose and feet", who cares about humanity and finds no help from other people.
Complicated!

Until this hex. makes more sense, I agree with Hilary to not talk or write to him about it. Maybe, I don't want to sound corny, you could pray for him? And make sacrifices literally? It says so in the lines twice.
Maybe, this is my new take on it, line 2 is him and line 5 is you, and you could buy him a nice present or give him something else he's happy with (like quality time)? I'm also thinking about the unconditional acceptance of hex.2.
Than line 2 might be him now, and line 4 might be him in the near future. I think it says in Wilhelm at line 5 that the purple knee caps refer to a minister, linewise this would be four. I think the golden car could refer to him, because he has everything he needs, yet feels miserable (possibly). And ashamed, most probably.
Both in 4 and 5 it says that things move gently, first the car moves gently, than joy comes gently. That in itself is an indication not to force or rush things. It seems being there for him (hex.2) is your best shot. What do you think about it?
Good luck in any case.

Love, Femke
 

zeldiac

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Thanks for your message Femke, it was thought provoking and helpful.

You're right that my relative has just about everything he needs. He does. You're also right that he feels miserable most of the time. I've picked that up for quite some time. Melancholy is the word I would use.

I've arranged to go visit him in a few weeks. We live a long way from each other. I think the readings show me not to write or speak my worries to him right now. Rather, I should listen to him. I think our time together will facilitate this. We enjoy each other's company very much. Perhaps I'm the 'kings delegate'. Maybe.

The humanitarian in me (being an Aquarian that's what I am!) is feeling his worry. I know he's ashamed of his appearance. He wrote me an e-mail about a business matter the other day. One sentence said it all. He remarked that he's still 'just about able to walk the walk, and talk the talk'. When he is not obese he is a handsome man who turns people's heads. Not any more. I want him to get better.

I view the readings as being very rounded and robust. Indicating caution, care and discretion. I still consider my interpretation skills very lacking but I'm grateful for all opinions posted.

Best wishes
Zelda
 
J

jesed

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Diagnosis
zeldiac said:
21 (1,4,6) > 2

The weight problem is a way to punishing himself.
Why?
What inner guilt he is trying to pay hurting himself like this?

This is an old issue. Srtated between september 17 and October 31, 2005; and consolidated between december 17, 2005 and January 31, 2006

He is with uncalm state of mind (thunder in lower trigram) ; and pasionated actions (fire in outer trigram). He needs serenity (mountain lower nuclear trigram) and wise adaptability (water in outer nuclear trigram) to see reality objectively.

Tendential hex 2: this is a good future prospect. There is hope for the evolution of this

Deeper cause
zeldiac said:
31 (5) > 62
An unconscious impulse.. quite clear answer. he should try to achieve self-confidence (hex 62)

How can you help him
zeldiac said:
61 (2,6)> 3
Try to influence him.. like a goose calling for its child (line 2); not by only words (line 6) but from your inner straight.
I like Wilhelm's comment on 61:
"... the whole secret of success depends on finding the right way of approach. One must first rid oneself of all prejudice and, so to speak, let the psyche of the other person act on one without restraint. Then one will establish contact with him, understand and gain power over him. When a door has thus been opened, the force of one's personality will influence him. .... But it is important to understand upon what the force inner truth depends. This force is not identical with simple intimacy or a secret bond. .... Only when the bond is based on what is right, on steadfastness, will it remain so firm that it triumphs over everything."

Best wishes
 

dobro p

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"I aksed Yi: How best am I to convey my health concerns to him?

I could do with a little help please. Primary is 47 changing at 2, 4 & 6. Relating 2."

Really interesting situation, and the question is skillful.

You're confined and oppressed by this situation, and words aren't much of a help. What will help, however, is magnanimity and compassion - the big heart that can allow somebody to be what they are (even if that's painful to witness) and love them anyway. The fact that the relating hex is Hex 2 only reiterates the accepting that's required of you here. It's not a passive accepting either; you're going to have to put work into it.

An implication of all this is that either you're not the person to tell him what he needs to know for the benefit of his physical health, or it's not the right time for him to hear this message.

However, two of the individual lines talk about making some kind of sacrifice or offering. I wouldn't put a lot of store in those individual lines, cuz there are so many of them, but it might be something to consider if you're feeling desperate to do something. What can you offer him? Advice is out, remember.
 

zeldiac

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The sheer talent you guys have for interpreting readings. I've read through the postings from Jesed and Dobro several times - thanks both. They are meaningful and highlight some good points. How were you able to pinpoint the dates?

During February 2006 I was worried when I met up with my relative. He had added some weight from when we'd seen each other in December. He appeared distracted, as if he was half concentrating on our social time. When we met up during April he had ballooned.

Going back to the readings. I'm thinking very hard about what I can offer him. Because an offering is strongly indicated. I always gladly give him my time and I listen to him. But is that enough? What can I do to help him? One idea that springs to mind is to put contact details of a local (to him) eating disorders support group in his mail. Like a 'flyer' - that would mean it would not be linked to me. Is that a bad idea?

Best wishes all
Z
 

zeldiac

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Following on from the posting I left above this one. I've pursued the idea of 'making an offering' to my relative. I have thought of little else for days. Specifically in relation to the eating disorders support group.

I asked of Yi:

What would the consequences be of me anonymously sending eating disorder support group details to X?

What about this amazing reply?!

Primary 40 changing at 2 & 6, Relating 35.

My interpretation is of a very positive response. That it could definitely help my relative to take action towards self healing by receiving anonymous information. I'm not too sure about the analogy of the foxes. But I see the prince shooting at a hawk as my relative rooting out his angst and disposing of it.

What do you think? I'm still learning and hope I've not got entirely the wrong idea of interpretation on this one.

Best wishes
Zelda
 
L

lightofreason

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Sudden tension release (by relaxing structure) THROUGH bringing something into the light.
 
J

jesed

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Hi

I'm with Cris... bring the real cause into the light

Notice something... even if the hex 21 had manifestation between december 17 and January 31 (the weight increase), IT'S CAUSES are rooted between september 17 and october 31. What happened in his life during those dates?

Another thing... the punishing impulse is unconsciuos, related with lak os self-confidence Eating desorder.. yes, you could name it like that.

Listen to him is enough? some times, it is enough (not because solve the entire problem, but because is what you can do for him, the rest in in his hands).

I would give him a space to face this unconscious impulse to harm himself... and the emotional support to find profesional help.

Best wishes
 

zeldiac

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My decision on the offering is now made. I'm going to anonymously post the eating disorders information to my relative this week. I've an excellent opportunity to do this because business takes me into a different county. Thus concealing my involvement, whilst placing professional guidance in his hands.

I have closely studied your very wise postings on this matter. I've also meditated on the situation. I'll be travelling to see my relative next week. It's two months since we last saw each other. I'm anxious about what he will look like... but, I'll continue listening and supporting him without judging. If there is progress to be reported in the weeks ahead, you can be sure I will give you an update on this thread.

Sincere good wishes to all
Zelda
 

mudpie

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Hi Zelda, I respect your decision and the 40.2.6 seems postive to this. it makes me uneasy though, since anonymous is so impersonal and he could feel shame and suspicion about who sent it. I would vote for at least signing it with "lots of love and concern" if not your name. I have an overweight person in my circle of family and it is a senstive issue...he could be relieved that someone has noticed, but if it were me, I would want to know the sender was someone who cared.....lest I think it was a judgemental gesture or, worse, a ridculing one...such is the danger of "anonymous" messages.
jmho
 

zeldiac

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A very wise comment. Lots of love is exactly the right thing - no sooner said than done!
Z
 

frank_r

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Hi Zelda,

Hexagram 47 makes a jump from trigram lake to trigram lake, a quantum jump.
Lake is also the trigram of the heart and the pericardium, the protector of the heart.

And trigram water is that of the stomach. And because the stomach is asking all the time for attention there is not enough water in the lake anymore.

Not the fysical heart itself(that's hexagram 23), but the feelings inside the heart (hexagram 40) are the problem.

So it's important to free his heart by talking but even more by having fun and laughing. And when he is sporting don't go to deep, then the water will disappear even more.
Excercising is benificial but look for the fun in moving not for the sweat. It takes longer but will free the heart a lot better and will eventually fill the lake again.

A lot of succes with helping your relative.

Best wishes Frank R
 
L

lightofreason

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IMHO Frank_r's interpretation re qualities of lake/water is a touch limited/local in scope so perhaps some more general elements may help in understanding what 47 is about given Frank_r's 'specialist' perspective.

Generically speaking, 47 comes in two 'flavours'. Both deal with containment where the act forces integration with the context - be it by choice (positive) or not (negative). In both cases the issue is in what in within the enclosure and so INSIDE (22 is opposite to 47 and focuses attention on the OUTSIDE of the boundary that encloses)

Water in lower position is about containment. (in upper position it reflects containment doubled and so control). With this focus on containment we can see the association to 'stomach' but a lot more as well.

Lake in lower position is about self-reflection. In UPPER position it covers self-reflection doubled and so intensity in expression. as such lake covers EXPRESSION of the heart in an immediate, intense form when in upper. Thus the reflection is literal (mirror) as it is metaphoric (look in on oneself)

47 covers the INSIDE of something as compared to 22 covering the OUTSIDE so the focus is on inner issues and the willingness to accept and integrate vs the battle to try and escape the boundary.

Reference to 23 is reference to a context of devotion to another/others (and so a possible 'heart' association) within which we apply quality control (mountain in upper. Mountain in lower is more reactive and focused on stopping/blocking).

Reference to 40 as feelings 'inside' the heart? Water in general covers the emotion of rejection, of being rejected or of rejecting and so the focus on a boundary that is contractive in that protects, what it encloses - be it FROM what is enclosed to FROM what is outside that enclosure (and so the issue of rejections all around). 40 covers tension release through relaxation of structure (as compared to tension release through rigid structure, as covered in 40s opposite 37)
 

zeldiac

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Hello all. I'm just giving you a small update on my relative following anonymously having sent him the professional information. I've found out that he started to change his eating habits in the past week! He expressed a genuine concern about his weight gain when we spoke. I've still not found out precisely what the underlying issue is, but I'm hopeful he will eventually tell me. I think he must be using the information I sent him and possibly the support group. I know him. There's no way he would have volunteered he had a weight issue previously. I'm thankful for this small bit of progress.
Best wishes
Zelda
 

zeldiac

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If you're still interested in this post, I'm adding a little bit more to it.

I've spent the weekend with my much loved relative. I'm relieved to see he has noticeably shed a few pounds. He has also bought a good exercise bike which he is using. The information I sent him anonymously must have gone some way to encouraging him.

We had a very short discussion about his weight; I listened closely to what he said. He said he is 'determined to lose the weight' and then he showed me a superb exercise bike he's bought and is using.

Jesed you're absolutely right with your calculated dates. 'Something' happened during one of two business trips he went on in September and October 2005. But exactly what happened I've not yet established. But the fact I was able to find out that 'something' definitely happened to upset him at that time is great progress from my viewpoint. I'm hopeful to find out more over time. Then perhaps I can find a better opportunity to try to help him.

Thanks to everyone who is interested in this post.
Zelda
 
J

jesed

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Hi Zelda

Yes, knowing the real causes is the most important thing to help. And I guess that is just the fact that you are there, listening with love and consideration, that helps him more.

Due to the answers you got, and the love that you show, I'm sure that things will go from better to better.

Best wishes
 

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