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Weird coincidence or dumb luck

louise

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I think I would just tell him what Yi said Lindsay. The worse that can happen is that he thinks your're an odd but well meaning old codger isn't it ? Actually however much he thinks it mumbo jumbo, I reckon he'll probably take it on board even if he doesn't admit it.

Having said that I feel we come across the information we need when it is in our path to do that. A fatalistic view I suppose, like if hes meant to get that information he will get it one way or another. I've never given others Yi inspired advice unless they directly ask. I tend to think they can steer their own path and if Yi were in their path they would be accessing it.
Maybe its part of his life path to have his ears tight shut.

In regard to what you said about coming out of the closet I find that virtually anything that has the remotest connection with spirituality is very taboo - in the circles I frequent. For a long time I thought wouldn't it be great if there were an I Ching site where I could openly discuss
questions and experiences with Yi - and here it is !!
I think being able to share stuff here has an incredibly positive effect on my practise with Yi, and having to hide it was really negative.

All my friends and family know i consult the I Ching, but they all seem all to look upon it as a rather foolish but harmless eccentricity. Lately I have been much more upfront about showing that I take it seriously - that may be because of the validation of this forum. Infact from now on I'm definately coming out of the closet - no longer smiling apologetically when someone makes reference to my practise. I wonder how on earth Hilary copes doing it openly as a job ? Does she encounter derision and ridicule ?
 

pam

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Lindsay,

I have, too. My oldest son met his future wife when he was a sophomore in college and continued to date her and then live with her for seven years and graduate school before they married. During this time I threw several disturbing things like hex 56, turning into 51 (now that is NOT something you want to throw about your future daughter-in-law). My son doesn't put much stock in the I Ching, but never ridicules its advice. But try as I might, I could not really understand what the problem would be other than that one of them would wander and possibly cause damage to the marriage. I didn't push too hard to tell him anything because I couldn't figure what exactly the problem would be. A year before they married, I finally understood when my own husband (12 years younger than me and a bit of a wanderer himself)(Anita, take note) stopped in their city on a business trip intending to take them out to dinner. My son was himself gone on business overnight and so my husband took out my future daughter-in-law. This lead to an attraction between them (quite a shock for awhile for both my son and myself)that is still working itself out, but finally this fall seems to have taken a turn for the better (retreat and modesty and VAST improvement on both of their parts) because she gave birth to their first child. It also helps that we only see her twice a year or so, even though my son is often here on business and has dinner with us.

But in the end, I am glad I didn't try to advise him against marrying her because now that the baby is here we are becoming good friends for the first time. And my son is very much in love with her and the baby. I went to their home for 8 days when the baby was born, at my son's request, even though I thought it would be awkward. It turned out great and when my husband and youngest son arrived for my last weekend there so they could meet the baby, things between my husband and my daughter-in-law were quite calm and easy(it probably also helped that I had talked to my husband several times during the pregnancy about how I felt about this).

So I guess if you think there is a compelling need to tell him, just remember that maybe what you think you understand is not all there is to it. Just pass it on and then release the thought that you should influence him in one way or another. I kind of try not to get involved in my older two sons' decisions since they are grown, but just offer them support and unconditional love. My youngest is still at home, so I can have more say about his life. Good luck in wording it so he can hear it and thank you for caring about him.

Pam
 

hilary

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'What do you do?'
'I'm an I Ching diviner... yes, I know, not to worry, everyone says "what?", it's an ancient Chinese oracle, um, if you've heard of tarot reading it's a bit like that, only it's a book and much older and... No, it's not exactly fortune-telling...'

Sometimes (if people are starting to look very strained) I will go on to explain that they don't have to be polite if they think this is twaddle, as after all my husband thinks so, so I quite understand the point of view.

On the one occasion when the other person said 'Oh, how fascinating! My sister's very interested in the I Ching. What's the address of your website?' I stopped in mid-stream of 'I-know-you-won't-have-heard-of-it-but...' with my mouth open.

So, yes, I talk about it confidently (much more so now than I used to!) and explain it as much as anyone is comfortable with. It's not so much derision or ridicule I encounter as embarrassment - after all, I depend on the daily occurrence of miracles to make money, and most people would run miles rather than discuss such things. On the positive side, it's wonderful when I do meet people who feel safe talking about it.
happy.gif


The only other problem is that my Mum - a Church of England Reader, ie someone who can take services that don't involve sacraments - feels very awkward about the whole thing, and I don't think she's hugely keen on having all her friends know. So when talking to them I usually confine myself to saying vaguely that I 'have a website' and David makes most of the money - which is perfectly true!

On the undeliverable messages - yes, I would (and do) try to slip some part of it into ordinary conversation. It's an interesting challenge to my usual tendency to want to give every last piece of information from a reading!
 

louise

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I think you're quite amazing Hilary - juggling with a husband who thinks Yi is twaddle and a mother who would rather not let her friends know what you do. You must have mastered the art of 15 pretty well ! I just love the line "I depend upon the daily occurrence of miracles to make money". Love it, I think I will make it my motto.

Tell your mother I think she should be proud
 
C

candid

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Val,

I haven't done that in years, and its unlikely here in the desert. My only real memories of snow is shoveling the stuff and having some "big kids" running into the snowman I built on the front lawn with their sleds. Chopped the sucker right in half! Boy, was I pis__d! I guess boys and girls really aren't the same after all. *grins back* At least where snowflakes and snowmen are concerned. Still, thank you. Its a happy picture.

My happy pictures are lakes. Being on a highland reservoir or natural lowland lake before the sun comes up, is a happy picture to me. The water's like glass and you can hear a fish surface 20 years away. The blue heron are the only other fisherthings there... and they're doing much better than you are at catching fish. You begin to imitate their frozen posture as you lift the rod tip, bouncing your lure lightly off the bottom. Something feels slightly different. Intuitively, you pick up slack...and wait.... *tap..puuull* You set the hook and the big bass protests with a mighty run for the tangles! Calmly, you join the fish underwater...skillfully guiding it back out, being cautious not to snap the line. Moments later, you gently lift your prize from its home... hold it up to admire her against the rising sun. You beam as you now become the fish, and lower it back, hook carefully removed. You pause, feeling the familiar lake's wetness, and realize, you once again are free to swim and to live, and perchance I haunt that spot again, to fight again another day.

Candid
 
A

acornhill

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Hmmmmmmmm, I am not sure I would care what others think so much. Plenty of times I meet people and they happen to tell me about their way of life, or livlihood and I do not judge them. We are all individuals and I admire people for their uniqueness. I find that being a vegetarian often brings negative/guilty comments from friends and strangers. But I do not hestitate to tell people if they ask. I think actually I would rather have a discussion as to why I have started to consult the I CHING rather than have to suffer through another "You don't eat meat because why???" converstation. Maybe too, because I'm living in/near Santa Fe, my opinions are jaded. I meet people all the time that have the weirdest/strangest/mostunusual professions all the time. I can think of a recent one... A pet psychic. Yes, you can communicate with good old Bowser that passed away when you were a child!!!
Tell your Mamma that!!!
 

cal val

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Candid...

Now that paints a beautiful picture.

I never saw a heron in person until I moved east. And now I see one or two Great Blues at least twice a week by my workplace (on the river), and they are amazing creatures. I've seen them take off in flight and feeding, and one day I came outside to see one of them atop a tree with one foot perched on one limb and one on another so that he straddled them knock-kneed. It was a very comical sight. He was looking around enjoying the view and seemed quite pleased when a crow flew to a limb near him and tried to strike up a conversation. He didn't say anything...just looked down his long beak at the little crow for a bit and then continued to enjoy the view. I relayed the story to a friend in London, and she sent back a poem she wrote entitled "Anhinga" which I was compelled to illustrate ---> http://home.earthlink.net/~303/anhinga.html. I mention it because I think it paints a picture as lovely as your post above does on a very similar theme.

I LOVE fishing. I'd gone fishing when I was a kid and it wasn't 'active' enough for me, but my first Christmas here in the east, I stayed in a lake house, and I went fishing Christmas morning. I could have stayed out there all day casting. I couldn't have asked for a better Christmas.
 
A

ann

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Reading the latter part of this thread, I thought I would tell you how I came to the I Ching. It was on a course when I was working for a very-well-known-indeed multinational company. The course was all about making decisions in all walks of life. Mostly it used standard management training techniques, but one whole afternoon was devoted to the principle of divination. The chosen oracle was the I Ching. That was over ten years ago. You can imagine that reactions to that particular session ranged from "Wow, this is amazing, how interesting, let's get going", to "This is a load of *******!" (mostly from men ;-) )

Incidentally the course ran for a few years then was dropped because too many 'good' people took the decision to leave the company as a result of having attended it!!

But just imagine how many 'non-new Age' types came to the Yi that way. Also my husband (who doesn't use it himself, but doesn't think it's weird) says it is not at all uncommon to see commuters using the I Ching on the way to work (on the train of course) in the morning. They are ordinary commuter types and they are doing it openly and in public. Probably using the Business I Ching or whatever, but still using divination nonetheless.

I've never stopped using it from then, although I find it extraordinarily difficult to interpret, so I still regard myself as a complete novice. However, I was struck then by how astonishingly accurate the answers were - and still am. I got #4 yesterday when I asked (again) about my fledgling company. I think Yi is getting a bit fed up with me (only partly joking)/

So for those who are worried about admitting that they use the I Ching (and I completely understand your dilemma Hilary, and I think you are very brave), I'd say just say what feels right at the time.
 

bfireman

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Wow! What stories everyone! Gives new meaning to the title of this thread. Maybe a bit off the topic, but probably not too far off... I recently finished reading a Buddhist book titled "transforming problems into happiness" by lama zopa rinpoche. VERY interesting. A quick overview, it is a commentary on an earlier buddhist text on "mind transformation". Instead of viewing problems as something negative, one should develop the habit of thinking of problems as (1) beneficial and (2) necessary in developing "true" understanding. A quote from the book: "The thought of liking problems should arise naturally, like the thought of liking ice cream or the thought of liking music." I couldn't help but laugh out loud when I read that, like yeahhhh right... However, in essence this is the root of all buddhist teachings just expressed a different way. Another nice quote: "All of existence depends on the tip of a wish", which I interpret similar to the taoist concept of non-duality, everything depends completely on mind. Ok, I know I am going on a bit, but it was a very interesting book and in light of the turn this thread was taking I thought I'd throw it out. As well, in my questions to yi while reading, I was not too surprised when I received hex 39 on two different occassions, which I interpreted as the same advice as this book just expressed differently. Wilhelm/Baynes on this hex: "An obstruction that lasts only for a time is useful for self-development. This is the value of adversity." Also, commentary on the image: "Difficulties and obstructions throw a man back upon himself. While the inferior man seeks to put the blame on other persons, bewailing his fate, the superior man seeks the error within himself, and through this introspection the external obstacle becomes for him an occaion for inner enrichment and education." Also, a very nice image to contemplate the creative side of "problems" in the notion of "time" as a necessary component. I guess there is a reason life is not all roses??? Still, can't help but to desire a kiss.. now is that asking too much?

Peace - Brian

PS- I guess I am at times both in and out of the i-ching closet. Thank yal for listening and allowing me to poke my head out a bit..
 
C

candid

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Brian - I'm personally very glad you poke your head out. I'm sure others feel the same way. "Instead of viewing problems as something negative, one should develop the habit of thinking of problems as (1) beneficial and (2) necessary in developing "true" understanding." Really well said, I think!

Val - Thanks for the link! A wonderful poem and illustration. I chuckled at the picture you've painted. Seemed like the heron should have had a cigar clenched in his teeth (heron teeth?). I've also perused the link on your profile. Per chance, have you created any of the art or writing? Its interesting - you moved east and I moved west. Have you found greener pastures? No pastures here to speak of, but lots of sand, sun and mountains. Its my power spot. What about yours? Do you have a magical place?

This is a rambling thread if ever I've seen one here at Clarity. Kinda nice.
happy.gif


Candid
 

cal val

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Dear Ann...

Wow. Fascinating story about the decision making lesson. I've heard of industrial psychologists with a strong bent toward Jungian philosopy recommending listening to one's intuition, but this is a first.

And I think your last sentence answers Lindsay's (and others') dilemma very succinctly -- "...just say what feels right at the time."

I, like Acornhill, don't care a lot about what other people think about me or my choices. I can't please all the people all the time...especially if I'm being true to myself. But I do have to live and interact with all the people, and peaceful coexistence is a high priority for me. I have to account for and respect different experiences and different value systems. Consequently, I pretty much keep my communication with the unconscious to myself unless an opportunity to discuss it presents itself...out of respect for the differences. And then I try to say only as much as the situation allows. I personally have found it quite easy to share the wisdom the I Ching has bestowed upon me without mentioning the source. I usually refer to 'Oriental Wisdom' when the occasion requires a source.

And when I do have occasion to express my choice to communicate with the unconscious, I have no trouble saying it in such a way as to convey my respect for other choices as well as my own.

I've never felt guilt or embarrassment about my choice that I share with you all here in this forum -- to consult a book of Oriental Wisdom. It's as valid a choice as anyone else's.
 

cal val

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Dear handsome, sexy Brian...

*big wet kiss on the lips*

No Brian, a kiss is not too much to ask.

You're a unique, individual and special man. You are caring, kind and 'run deep'. Only a woman who can respect your precious qualities will give you THE desired kiss (and many more kisses after that, hopefully *grin*). It may take awhile before your paths cross, but I think you'll find the wait worth it.
 

cal val

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Hi Candid...

Happy to hear you visited my site and hope you enjoyed it.

Any of the writing that I didn't attribute to Henry James, Ernest Hemingway, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Tom Robbins, William Butler Yeats, "Professor Denis" aka "Holy Officer" or Pamela Vincent is my own. And I created all the art in the gallery. Don't be surprised if you check back later only to find a picture of a Great Blue Heron perched atop a bare tree, smoking cigar dangling from his beak, locked in a stare with a crow sitting next to him.

YES! I have found my power place, and there are lots of green pastures there, and oh so many different hues of green! It has forever changed the green spectrum on my pallette. I'm just not there yet. I'm halfway there. I'm on a sojourn on my way "crossing the great water" at the moment. A sojourn I had thought would last about three months has turned into a year and a half. Actually, in the thread I started "Waiting waiting waiting, etc." as my introduction to this forum, I discussed having found my power place and the frustration I've felt at not being able "to cross the great water" to get to it yet.

I am learning that I've been 'stuck' here for a very good reason. I've learned some life lessons while here, like the meaning of Hexagram 37 change to Hexagram 9. It took becoming a leader of a team of men here to learn that lesson. Having never given much thought to a 'family' relationship with a man before now, having only been in a few leadership positions in the past in a completely different environment, having never led men who vehemently balk at being led by women before now, I could never fully comprehend the meaning of Hexagram 9, power through yielding. Not that I can yield to the guys I supervise. Nothing would get done if I did. But I can see how it's applicable to my own personal relationship.

And, Candid, I love that this thread wanders. It's so natural and spontaneous. Have you ever read "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" by Tom Robbins? He takes these looooong loops away from his 'thread' and takes them all right back to where he left off, the transition being so graceful and fluid you don't even see the return coming. It's BAM you're there -- kind of like taking off on a hike in unknown terrain and ending up right back where you started without noticing that's where you were headed. When I first read the book, I would re-read those not-so-meandering meanderings two and three times in total awe of his creativity and unique approach to writing.

I'd like to think that somewhere in all this wandering, Acornhill has found the answer to her original question. I know that I've found answers to a lot of questions I've had over the years in this thread as well as other seemingly unrelated threads.
 
C

candid

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Val,

Sorry, I've not read them.

As for making progress when feeling stuck, I hear that one! Its so hard to see the progress we're actually making sometimes. When looking back, one wonders if we ever really change from how we were at the age of 7. Progress takes on a different view from that point. Its much more a matter of gradual growth (53), most of which is at the base of the tree, in the ground.

The only meaning I can find, as far as my usefulness, is to produce like effects of the creative (as in 1). The results are, in a sense, none of my business (as in 2).

Making progress in return (as in 24) feels sometimes like standstill (as in 12) or stagnation (as in 18). But so long as the will remains firm and we don't change our direction (as in 32) we overcome what appears as oppression (as in 47) and continue our journey onward (as in 53). It isn't stagnation if we wish it not to be (as in 46).

Hey Brian, way to go with the kisses, man! Ask and ye shall receive, huh? *chuckle*

Namaste,
Candid
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Brian,

Loved your last post! What part of the South are you from? Having been born and raised in Louisiana, I can relate to keeping one's light under a basket. I can remember as a young child wondering just why I was in this strange place, surrounded by strange people with strange notions.

Spent a lot of my childhood in the library and just as soon as I was able(age 17), escaped to California, where thankfully my views were, if anything, conservative, when compared to my new peer group. Perhaps, if you haven't done it yet, you should consider a relocation to a more liberal spot. Sometime, its a whole lot more expedient for Muhammed to travel to the mountain. At the very least, if only for the different perspective from the mountaintop.

Being a heterosexual male, I'm a little too shy for any kisses, but I can certainly send you a great, big bear hug. And as the Aussies say, "Good on ya, mate!"

Namaste,
Leonard
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Candid,

Loved your hexagrammatic virtual tour through this labyrinthine instant we humans term 'life'.

I guess it all boils down to turning those lemons into a cool glass of lemonade.

Was just re-reading 'The Art of Happiness', and was once again intrigued by the Dalai Lama's total puzzlement at the interviewer's question on what advice he might give concerning 'self-loathing', obviously he had never had the experience!(Or, for that matter, was even aware of the concept!)

Namaste,
Leonard
 

bfireman

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Ahhhhhh Shucks.... got such a big smile on my face now with all these virtual kisses and bear hugs! Never knew it could be so GOOD! Thanks yal!

Leonard- to answer your question, I live now in Asheville, North Carolina. A cozy little town nestled in the blue ridge mountains. I grew up here, and like yourself, "escaped" immediately after high school to the western states. Since then I have done much wandering, both in the states and around the globe. I have not made it yet to Africa, Antarctica, or Australian continents, but one day... I returned here about 1 1/2 years ago, and to borrow Candid's phrase (thanks Candid!), I have truly found my "power spot" here. The mountains, rocks, trees, rivers, little furry creatures crawling and flying around, I love this place and feel it in my bones that this is where I shall anchor down for a while. And to all of yal, a very sincere and humble appreciation of such intimacy and openess in this forum. I am learning so much and continue to look forward to these ongoing discussions...

Peace and Love - Brian
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Brian,

Yep, I know what you mean about 'power spots'. I found mine in Spain about 9 years ago, and have been trying to get back there ever since. ...but, thats another story.

When all of my California friends questioned my drastic move here to eastern Pennsylvania last year, my answer was, "Well, if it doesn't work out, at least I'm 3,000 miles closer to Espana!"(wry smile).

I know Asheville very well; my parents lived in Winston/Salem for about 30 years. I would advise being very careful about mentioning your involvement with the Yi, unless of course, you ENJOY the taste of tar and feathers. I mean, those folks can be Absolutely Christian in a real fundamentalist fashion at times. Ouch! Here's another hug!

Namaste,
Leonard
 

anita

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Thanks Heylise for seeing the plus side of repeated throws. Yes my life does depend on the answers I get because for the first time in my life I've really fallen in love and same for my boyfriend. I spoke to him yesterday on telephone and he says he never though he could love anyone so much and is coming back as fast as he can, even if it's only for a few weeks. That's 59 for me -- dispersing what divides us -- which is distance.And also as Lise said in her recent post-- it's about forgiveness too. I did have to forgive his not writing to me for a month and leaving me wondering when we could meet again -- if ever -- since it seemed to us then that there was no practical way to live together.

It took him some time to regain hope in the future again and I understood that.

Speaking of repeated questions, since Guruji is so clear and and I'm sure more focused than me, I asked her to ask the Yi whether he and I will cultivate ourselves spiritually together and she drew 53 which turned to 22. It's a hexagram I have received too in the context of our relationship and when i asked the Yi the same question afterwards, I received the same hexagram.

Pam, that's interesting that your hubby is 12 years younger. My hopefully future hubby is 21 years younger than I am. But the age diffrence has never bothered either of us although it bothers others!

Speaking of dreams here, my boyfriend is very psychic and had a dream long ago of a fire disaster that actually took place later just as he had envisioned it and it had nothing to do with his life. What makes me even surer of him is the fact that he can read my exact thoughts whenever he chooses to. All he does is put his fingers on my head and he can trace every thought as I think it. So there are no secrets between us and I know he loves me much for my inner self which he can clearly see. (Wish I could read his too-- but then I know I can trust him.)

Best for your Quest
 
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heylise

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Some 200 meters behind my house is a heron-colony. They sure look like having cigars, always flying to the same spot for fishing, always at axactly the same minute.
But in spring they have nests, and suddenly they are beautiful, flying around with their necks stretched out, like elegant cranes. Looking to the east then from here it is as if I am looking to a Chinese drawing.

Beautiful things on your website, Val. It was a new experience to see the subject of an inquiry (the Scotsman). Hex.44 says 'don't marry the strong woman': create in connection with his dark side, make a creative but not a 'normal' bond.

Namaste
LiSe
 

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