What are his true intentions with me? 27.1.6 to 2

[rosada]

Evolving thoughts... Thinking now about how 36.3 says a great discovery saves the day although it still will take time...
It seems to me now that by taking on the role of "house mother" Veronica's husband is revealing to her how truly abusive his mother was to him. Of course he is unconscious he's being manipulated by these old energy imprints or even if he is aware of it, he isn't strong enough to resist the magnetic pull of the old thought patterns. You might say he has a mental disease. Unfortunately for Veronica she feels a pressure to maintain the family at all costs which limits her ability to openly respond to his uncontrolled behavior, tell him he's acting out what his mother did to him and that he needs to seek therapy or she'll quit her job and file for a divorce and get a restraining order put on him. Nope, that would be a little too extreme. Instead, she must 36. Hide her light, but recognizing what's triggering her husband - his unresolved issues with his mother - can be a great aid in recognizing what she should do next. Veronica, you mentioned how you and he have had good chats over the phone. Recognizing what sorts of environments support the relationship (talking over the phone, sending emails) and which situations trigger blow ups (talking face to face) might be a good place to start. Also consider that moving out for awhile might not have to mean you are divorcing. Done in a reasonable way it could lead to reunion.

 

[VeronicaV]

Thank you all SO much for your time, concern, and feedback. These 2 original posts (frustrating marriage & what are his intentions with me?) are 15 yrs+ of my thoughts, my secrets, my hidden precious life that I had no one to really ever share with. This connection is POWER for me. Thank you. It’s healing, it’s therapy, it’s very meaningful and continually impactful for me. I will re-read it over and over. So, thank you for sharing and taking your time. I’m still sorting my thoughts.

Separated paragraphs, I get it, my apologies. I also should have linked my first post for more info, sorry for that. I work during the day away from the home and that’s when I can communicate freely at this time. I’m in the USA on the east coast. I apologize but I don’t know how to link a comment or highlight something already said/ posted. There are a few things I should clarify.

I never meant to make this post about domestic violence. You all have been so kind and understanding to even comment on my real issues and not make it only about that, I reallllllly appreciate it. My situation could turn deadly at any minute (anyone’s could), but I’m 99.99% confident that it never will. So, I don’t really think my husband will kill me as I posted, but I do have fear at certain times and I see that my fear causes some of my decisions. My husband, like Trojina said, based on readings about his intentions, is not a “baddie.” I don’t want to sound even more weak then I already do and give him accolades, but like I said, he’s not an average person at all. In fact, I pray for healing for him so he can be his full authentic self and not hold back because he is a beast in a good way. We have battling powerful energies and he clearly needs to rule and I’m just a very strong person, but in this relationship, I have to be the waay less then and I never prepared for that in my life in general or that type of role. The physical violence only happens when I truly push it. I push. Plus it’s also an overtone of what could happen…an ongoing threat. I know what works in our household and the rules given, but I get vexed and verbally speak the truth a lot and he gets instantly angry and out of control and sometimes violent. So, I know a lot about my own situation, which is big for domestic violence “survivors”…knowing your situation and what works for you. If we had no kids, I think I would be have been gone because I wouldn’t have been hung up on anything, not even fear. I would be sad, but I would say the truth, see if he wanted me and then walk away if he didn’t. The 11 children and the faaamily make it hard for me. I’m still attractive and youngish and this is a BIG cause for his distrust…(his own insecurities!). I wish I had known in the beginning of our relationship what I know now and I would have made more decisive decisions early and never broken that trust with him and there would be no real issues.

Also, the oldest 3 children are Girls not boys! Teenage girls. Our sons are 10yrs old and under and are being guided to distrust females and to be non-compromising with their own wife in case she is not completely wholesome and honest from the start. But they are mostly just adorable sweeties and melt my heart completely. For my husband, they are his pride and joy, essentially my worth is equated to giving him 6 healthy vibrant sons. He loves the daughters too, but he doesn’t want them ever to have to be subject to a man, he wants them to be strong and able to defend themselves in this world. My oldest 3 girls are getting such confusion and I really owe it to them to do the right thing and try and help guide their lives better..to not make it about me, but make it about them. I see how my reading says the separation at this point would be better for them, because how could it be good to see their mom hit by their dad. They are not hitting me, it’s just shocking that he would even suggest such sickness.

I am going to push for some therapy. As stated in all of your lovely feedback, some of the feedback shows that the opportunity for it is there. My husband dropping me off for work today, I cutely said, hey we need marriage counseling (of course I’ve said it before). He of course said no…that I need therapy…but I’m going to consult the Yi and see what more I can do to try and convince him if It’s possible. I asked, “how can I convince him to go to marriage counseling / therapy with me?” 28.5 to 32….He’s a cool, very interesting guy who yes, is so cruel sadly, I think it mostly is a defensive mechanism for his own pain and suffering. Doesn’t make any of it okay. I’m so invested, so I really appreciate Rosada’s feedback about options (walking around the block)…the 24 returning…also Liselle and Moss Elk and Mary Blue Sky…..Mary Blue Sky said maybe consult the iching about how I go about rescuing myself…great question and I asked that. I got 11.3 to 19! ?? Also, what will happen if I leave? 26.1.6 to 46.

I feel more settled now. What I’m really feeling is that maybe it will work out or maybe it will be best to leave. But I don’t have to be so fearful. I want to take some time, fall back in my defensiveness and just be in our home and in our lives and see how it feels and observe everything. My fear Trojina….he always is so fanatical about keeping all of the children, especially all of the boys, I never really consider that there are alternatives. It’s not like a normal household, you get divorced, you get custody, boom it’s over and you move on. He has made distinct threats to me if I ever try and leave and take the children from him. I don’t know how to describe it. It’s me committed to him For eeever. Like anything other than that, I’m failing, and I don’t want to hurt him. I know him. He’s fragile and crazy as it seems to care about someone you love who also abuses you, but I do. I don’t want to make it worse for him by leaving him. I’m nuuuuts. I also fear that I will move on with my life and one day…angry ex husband will snipe me or plot an attack against me. My hope is that he would find happiness and heal and never have time to risk his great assets to take me down, but it’s a fear. So, I feel like making it work is an option to work at. I haven’t done as much as I could have done. Maybe my efforts won’t ever change his reactions and feelings, but maybe they will. I asked, will my efforts ever really change his emotional response to me? 22.2.3 to 27.

I consulted the Yi over the years to help me. Sorry Trojina if it’s clear that I should clearly leave and take common sense advise, but it’ hasn’t been so clear for me every day. Yes, I see things clearly, like, duh leave…but it’s muddled for sure for me. Re-reading everyone’s feedback and my own words…I have a complex about leaving. For me it’s worth figuring out what I’m not seeing in the situation or what I can do to aid it for it’s best possible outcome before just leaving. 95% of the time, things are good. It’s controlling, but there is a lot of love. Not for me as much anymore, Like Rosada said, his love for me is gone, he needs me (not just as the breadwinner, but I’m a rock for him too) but he doesn’t see me anymore.

He thinks I’ve been unfaithful, but I haven’t been. He’s obsessed with this farce. This caused him to set up a ‘trap’ that I thought was him freeing himself sexually and I revealed some fantasies (that I thought he actually wanted ) and this all turned very badly and caused him to distrust me even more….a big issue has been me working and not being the stay at home mom (that I would much rather have been!) but it’s been complicated. Me working and him not has been monumental in our downfall.

I asked before all of this posting, a few other things….How to transition from working out in the public to being home/ working from home and received 46 unchanging. It’s going to be a lot of work to make this happen, I need to do a lot to make it happen. In the midst of the trivial power exchanges, when he constantly crushes me, I asked, why…why does he treat me like this and what should I do about it? Got 22.1.6 to 15. Also, sex is a way to connect and open back up to love and transformation (it's a big opener for him..he is a Scorpio moon) and I asked, what do I have to do for more sexual pleasure and is it even possible? Got 25.4.5 to 27.


You all have contributed a lot, if you still feel like communicating about my issue, I truly welcome it, in fact, please do. Thank you sincerely from the essence of my being. Have a wonderful day, all of you.

 

[VeronicaV]

Evolving thoughts... Thinking now about how 36.3 says a great discovery saves the day although it still will take time...
It seems to me now that by taking on the role of "house mother" Veronica's husband is revealing to her how truly abusive his mother was to him. Of course he is unconscious he's being manipulated by these old energy imprints or even if he is, he isn't strong enough to resist the magnetic pull of the old thought patterns. You might say he has a mental disease. Unfortunately for Veronica she feels a pressure to maintain the family at all costs which limits her ability to openly respond to his uncontrolled behavior, tell him he's acting out what his mother did to him and that he needs to seek therapy or she'll quit her job and file for a divorce and get a restraining order put on him. Nope, that would be a little too extreme. Instead, she must 36. Hide her light, but recognizing what's triggering her husband - his unresolved issues with his mother - can be a great aid in recognizing what she should do next. Veronica mentioned how she and he have had good chats over the phone. Recognizing what sorts of environments support support the relationship and which situations trigger blow ups might be a good place to start. Also consider that moving out for awhile might not have to mean you are divorcing. Done in a reasonable way it could lead to reunion.

Rosada, I just posted that long response and saw this recent thought from you. Thanks for thinking of me. You are truly insightful. I see his abusive mother's most negative traits come out in him. I literally see her in his meanest of responses echoing how she treated him and his 3 siblings. Wow...he never went to therapy and has said how he should have when his sister died (he was only 22! and he was her protector) and how nasty, vile, horrific his mother has been and always was. He was a beautiful boy, innocent like all of us. She hit him so badly. She has never to this day apologized for being so hurtful or even acknowledged her acts. She really damaged his faith/view of a woman, then I come along and I'm a beautiful, loving little bright light, and I just had to go and be so stupidly promiscuous and then lie about it to him when we met. He thought I was 'his' only to have already been used and abused......that has been a big crusher of his belief in a good woman. He gave me opportunities to earn my worth back, the 'efforts' I keep speaking of, and I basically failed in doing them. My claim is that I was being subtly abused by him and it made it hard for me to actually get these things done...I was suffering emotionally. I turned to the iching and it brough me out of my darkness and gave me stregnth to even make sense of things especially in my actions with him and my words. To this day he is still giving me a 'chance' to show and prove I'm worth it.

 

[diamant]

He was a beautiful boy, innocent like all of us.

That's not accurate. Some people are born with sociopathic/psychopathic personalities, which means they do become physically violent against others. The reason 'why' violence happens is irrelevant. There is no excuse for it. If you have a look at domestic abuse forums, you'll see that the violence only gets worse as time goes by. Because of the violence, you are fully justified to fear for your life (if you stay, and even if you go).

Save yourself.

 

[rosada]

He told you that you needed therapy? Jump on that! Do it! It will give you insight into yourself and strengthen you and whether he realizes why it is happening or not, as you gain clarity he will too. Also there are many types of therapy. I recommend tuning fork therapy (google it), or if you prefer someone you talk to go to a therapist who uses astrology. Massage therapy also helps. Feng shui! Lots of options.

Meanwhile, so good you have found the I Ching. Not only does it give you guidance but just the mental state of calm openness it encourages helps even if you don't always trust your understanding. Engaging with angry people becomes much less important. Defending yourself seems less and less important.

Welcome!

 

[Trojina]

You told us he threatened to kill you.

That's not something to fudge over with analysing his mum's behaviour. If he's threatening to kill you that really isn't a route to go down. No murderer was 'cured' by his wife doing a bit of therapy.

But I'm confused, getting many mixed messages here, you said it was a highly abusive relationship where he made rules for you, got the kids to hit you and threatened your life but now that's changed or we have the wrong end of the stick?

She has never to this day apologized for being so hurtful or even acknowledged her acts. She really damaged his faith/view of a woman, then I come along and I'm a beautiful, loving little bright light, and I just had to go and be so stupidly promiscuous and then lie about it to him when we met.

You just said you weren't unfaithful to him though ?

 

[VeronicaV]

That's not accurate. Some people are born with sociopathic/psychopathic personalities, which means they do become physically violent against others. The reason 'why' violence happens is irrelevant. There is no excuse for it. If you have a look at domestic abuse forums, you'll see that the violence only gets worse as time goes by. Because of the violence, you are fully justified to fear for your life (if you stay, and even if you go).

Save yourself.

This is true... It has been progressively worse and there is no excuse for it. I will.

 

[Trojina]

11 babies in 18 years must have been pretty intense, that's a baby every 18 months?

Am I wrong?

You say you were not unfaithful but then you say you were promiscuous so which is true?

He thinks I’ve been unfaithful, but I haven’t been.

She really damaged his faith/view of a woman, then I come along and I'm a beautiful, loving little bright light, and I just had to go and be so stupidly promiscuous and then lie about it to him when we met.

I am getting very confused and am going back to the post where you described the abuse.

 

[VeronicaV]

He told you that you needed therapy? Jump on that! Do it! It will give you insight into yourself and strengthen you and whether he realizes why it is happening or not, as you gain clarity he will too. Also there are many types of therapy. I recommend tuning fork therapy (google it), or if you prefer someone you talk to go to a therapist who uses astrology. Massage therapy also helps. Feng shui! Lots of options.

Meanwhile, so good you have found the I Ching. Not only does it give you guidance but just the mental state of calm openness it encourages helps even if you don't always trust your understanding. Engaging with angry people becomes much less important. Defending yourself seems less and less important.

Welcome!

He says it sarcastically. Maybe I actually could go to therapy, but that would be very threatening for him because everything would be exposed. I've never considered your alternative forms though.... I think we would need to go together. He feels it's for someone who is mentally weak, also that it's wrong to divulge personal information to a stranger who you know nothing of their personal info (their beliefs/views, etc). Besides clarity, I've read from the Cafe soul interpretations...where else is a good iching translation that I can read like a bible almost? I agree it's very balancing...just very good for me and the way I like to think and feel.

 

[Trojina]

On the one hand you agree with Rosada that chatting and therapy and psychoanalysing him will work just fine but on the other hand you agree with diamant that he is a threat to your life and you need to get out.


I find this pretty confusing but you posted again hang on

He says it sarcastically.

Okay, that's really not what you said earlier.

Earlier you said these things

He would take my phone, physically harm me, destroy all of my things…I don’t even know. I just don’t know what to do.

The oldest 3 he wants them to physically hit me when I get out of line. It’s horrific truly. He’s teaching the boys to become bullies and I feel powerless.

Never thought I would be someone that just took it. But my husband isn’t the average person. I stay now it seems to be with the children, because he’s going to take them from me and maybe kill me one day or at least physically hurt me very badly?

Now you're saying he was just being sarcastic? Really, it didn't sound like that earlier


You said he wants the oldest to physically hit you but then later say they are girls as if it didn't matter...


You can't say serious things like this and then say 'it was just sarcastic' because it's not making sense

Besides clarity, I've read from the Cafe soul interpretations...where else is a good iching translation that I can read like a bible almost? I agree it's very balancing...just very good for me and the way I like to think and feel.

Ah well controversially I think the very last thing you need are I Ching interpretations. If you're living with a murderer which you said yesterday you need proper help, that is legal etc .

I'm very confused, you said some very serious things yesterday you're denying today.

 

[rosada]

When I first discovered the IC I really enjoyed The I Ching Made Easy. You'll want to read it cover to cover in an afternoon.

 

[VeronicaV]

11 babies in 18 years must have been pretty intense, that's a baby every 18 months?

Am I wrong?

You say you were not unfaithful but then you say you were promiscuous so which is true?







I am getting very confused and am going back to the post where you described the abuse.

I was quite promiscuous before I met him and lied as if I hadn't been. I have been completely faithful to him...he thinks that I haven't though. Yes, it's been very intense, 11 babies in 18 years. 10 births because the last birth was a set of twins. I think I said, "maybe kill me one day..." It's an abusive relationship, it checks off all the boxes, but he's not physically violent with me too much and when he is, I definitely push boundaries I know that I shouldn't. I believe the relationship could be one that could be turned non-abusive one day, these are very rare....it's primarily verbally abusive at this point...it is very controlling, I do work but nothing else really, I don't have freedoms to do whatever or have friends or anything like that. I've explained some more about him since he is far from a monster, but he is doing very hurtful things. I haven't been perfect, but I would like for him to be able to glimpse inside my soul for a few minutes to see that he's wrong and needs to love me and be kind. I have very rose-colored glasses and am not always in touch with reality and what is actually happening.

 

[Trojina]

but I would like for him to be able to glimpse inside my soul for a few minutes to see that he's wrong and needs to love me and be kind.

I would think your focus would be on not getting killed which was what you worried about yesterday.


You said he would seriously physically injure you so why worry about him looking into your soul.

You do seem unrealistic expecting someone like this to just start being kind to you. It doesn't make sense to me

 

[VeronicaV]

On the one hand you agree with Rosada that chatting and therapy and psychoanalysing him will work just fine but on the other hand you agree with diamant that he is a threat to your life and you need to get out.


I find this pretty confusing but you posted again hang on


Okay, that's really not what you said earlier.

Earlier you said these things










Now you're saying he was just being sarcastic? Really, it didn't sound like that earlier


You said he wants the oldest to physically hit you but then later say they are girls as if it didn't matter...


You can't say serious things like this and then say 'it was just sarcastic' because it's not making sense


Ah well controversially I think the very last thing you need are I Ching interpretations. If you're living with a murderer which you said yesterday you need proper help, that is legal etc .

I'm very confused, you said some very serious things yesterday you're denying today.

I didn't say I was living with a murderer. I said I can and do sometimes have fear of him. I was describing how he may act if I said I was leaving when I said he would take my phone, probably destroy my things, maybe hurt me physically. I said the oldest ones are girls so you could get an image of teenage girls instead of grown men who would be my sons beating me...it's not that at all. I said he was sarcastic in saying I should get therapy since he would feel threatened if I was to go to therapy and tell a stranger all of our intimate problems. I also said this is 15 years of information in a nutshell so the iching has helped me quite a bit even if I do need professional help as well.

 

[Trojina]

I do work but nothing else really,

Well you must do a lot else such as taking care of your twin babies when you get home so your husband can have a break. Then there's the other 9 to look after. I mean your life must be jam packed. Couples who work with one baby are exhausted let alone twin babies and 9 other children. I'm amazed you have time to look on the Cafe au Soul website or this one, how do you manage it ?

 

[VeronicaV]

When I first discovered the IC I really enjoyed The I Ching Made Easy. You'll want to read it cover to cover in an afternoon.

Ooh it looks great, definitely getting it, thanks.

 

[VeronicaV]

Well you must do a lot else such as taking care of your twin babies when you get home so your husband can have a break. Then there's the other 9 to look after. I mean your life must be jam packed. Couples who work with one baby are exhausted let alone twin babies and 9 other children. I'm amazed you have time to look on the Cafe au Soul website or this one, how do you manage it ?

The best we can. I feel like a failure quite a bit. My husband...does a lot! He is literally tired and mentally as well, so he's lashed out quite a bit hasn't he...but he wasn't always this way. I was supposed to be recruiting help (in the form of a gf/ sister wife but that is waaay harder than it seems or has been for me/us) and now we have all of these issues that need to be fixed before anyone would ever want to join our relationship...but the older children do a lot, but everyone needs more. More time, more love, more attention, etc. I said...we have a great family, it's just a little off...The childcare is so exhausting, the cleaning, the food prep! LOL. He's a natural though, a very good dad. Obviously you will say it's no good to be angry/ abusive...of course that is bad...but everything is not black and white.

 

[Trojina]

I know quite well everything is not black and white, it's how abuse continues. Things seem normal for a while so we think it's okay and then bam it isn't. Eventually one can be so enmeshed it seems there's no way out. Happens in many families, everyone happy till one day daddy knocks mummy's teeth out and smashes her rib cage....then he says sorry and he's a nice man again...till next time. If he were consistently violent she would of course not hesitate to leave but he behaves well for long periods of time so she thinks he has changed but he hasn't.

And it happens like that in much less extreme ways too. Can she be his therapist? No, of course not.

He's a natural though, a very good dad. Obviously you will say it's no good to be angry/ abusive...of course that is bad

Since he decided to father 11 children he needs to be a Superdad. However from what you said yesterday he's screwing his kid's heads up deliberately. Your kids won't speak to you when you come home because of what he said. That's not being a good dad it's creating mental health issues for the people he chose to bring into this world.

Im horrified about my children experiencing this, suffering and being molded and shaped now by so much negativity. I feel like he has all my power. The more I do, it’s like the worse it’s getting. It’s so embarrassing and shamefully bad, I don’t even know how to deal with this. He belittles me so badly in front of the children now (and it’s increased over the years) that it’s normal behavior in our house and he’s been filling their brains with his negative feelings about me…and is purposefully turning them against me, while giving them the verbiage to “observe me and see it for themselves.” So they think this is how they themselves feel about me (the older ones), of course I know the truth. When I get home from work, the little ones won’t even say hello, they don’t want me to touch them, they repeat that I don’t care about them, that I abandon them. The oldest 3 he wants them to physically hit me when I get out of line. It’s horrific truly. He’s teaching the boys to become bullies and I feel powerless.

If that's what being a 'good dad' is then I'm the Pope.

 

[VeronicaV]

Trojina thanks for all of your comments and advice and thoughts, Fair enough.

 

[VeronicaV]

On the one hand you agree with Rosada that chatting and therapy and psychoanalysing him will work just fine but on the other hand you agree with diamant that he is a threat to your life and you need to get out.


I find this pretty confusing but you posted again hang on


Okay, that's really not what you said earlier.

Earlier you said these things










Now you're saying he was just being sarcastic? Really, it didn't sound like that earlier


You said he wants the oldest to physically hit you but then later say they are girls as if it didn't matter...


You can't say serious things like this and then say 'it was just sarcastic' because it's not making sense


Ah well controversially I think the very last thing you need are I Ching interpretations. If you're living with a murderer which you said yesterday you need proper help, that is legal etc .

I'm very confused, you said some very serious things yesterday you're denying today.

In retrospect, you are a bit of a bully yourself TROJINA. Like, read the thread in order, then you wouldn't be confused at all. You kept quoting things I said and were unclear and ACCUSING me of saying something different the next day as if I'm under investigation for posting something that you can or don't have to comment on. Don't comment if you are so confused. It's actually all very clear as I wrote a lot. I don't like you or your style at all and I think you're distasteful in the least. I don't think you even commented on any of my actual castings! Is this one of your paid job? Even if you are a volunteer, at least read the post before commenting, do your job and do me a favor, don't comment on ANY of my posts, thanks.

 

[Trojina]

Okay I won't comment further.

Sorry I offended you.

Like, read the thread in order, then you wouldn't be confused at all.

To be fair though I did read the thread quite thoroughly, several times and in order and that was the very reason I was so confused. Posts one day seemed to be giving an entirely different picture the next day that's why I kept quoting earlier posts to you. You said he was a good dad yesterday after telling us the awful things he does with your children's heads only the day before, he messes with their heads and that's serious for them. If he chose to have kids he could consider their mental well being. Then you said he was a good dad.

I'm still confused about the threat of physical violence to yourself. Yesterday you said the threat to kill you was 'sarcasm' but that wasn't the impression I got the day before. Clearly these are highly serious issues so it's important to be clear whether your life is under threat or not.

 

[marybluesky]

He was a beautiful boy, innocent like all of us.

Veronica I see how deeply you love your husband, and therefore, how hurtful can words like domestic violence & bully sound to you. If you remember I had a rather positive view of your family in the first thread. However I was shocked by your fifth post here & think many others did, too. You've written it in a bad day that may not mirror all your experience with your husband. It's indeed confusing to be in a situation where you want to voice your hidden thoughts and feeling on one hand, but don't want your dear to be offended, on the other hand.

Looking again at 36.3 & it's commentaries, I see Rosada's point: it's not possible to eradicate all darkness at once, as the line's commentaries in James Dekorne's website indicate: you have to do that gradually. That said, the line also says "afflicted constancy isn't possible". 54.6 confirms that. You should start the change.

“how can I convince him to go to marriage counseling / therapy with me?” 28.5 to 32

The woman has an upright husband & there is no blame, no praise. Doesn't seem like a difficult thing to do.

Mary Blue Sky said maybe consult the iching about how I go about rescuing myself…great question and I asked that. I got 11.3 to 19! ?? Also, what will happen if I leave? 26.1.6 to 46.

I think 11.3 is about accepting the life's ups & downs. The context hexagram is 19: the approach, or as Bradford says, taking the charge. Face the reality of this rather unpleasant situation, and find happiness in nourishment- anything that makes you deal better with hardship.

Although you are averse to leave, understandably, 26.1.6>46 is a good omen: you stop the danger, then the way to progress opens to you.

will my efforts ever really change his emotional response to me? 22.2.3 to 27

I don't know how to interpret 22.2. The next line says: constancy, good fortune. Hexagram 27 is about being careful of how you "feed" your mind (and here, I think others').

 

[rosada]

How do I get him to go to marriage counseling with me? 22.5 - 32.
I can certainly understand how marybluesky read this as meaning it shouldn't be too hard to do but ... I can also see "woman has a strong upright husband - duration" as saying this man sees himself as a strong up right husband without fault and blameless, and thus is no way you are going to be able to convince him he needs help. So just tell him you think he's perfect and deserves a better partner so you are going to get some therapy to work on your own many short comings which he's so graciously made you aware of. And who knows, leaving him alone and getting help yourself may lead to him ultimately joining you.

I see 11.3 as advising that within the ups and downs one remains true to themselves. So along with "accepting" - or I would say "recognizing" - that life has it's good days and bad days you are advised not to lose touch with what you know is true about you.

 

[diamant]

How do I get him to go to marriage counseling with me?
The question presupposes that marriage counseling would help.
Sorry to have to say this, but domestic violence is a matter for the police.
Not for a marriage counselor.
He has already made it clear that he doesn't want the truth out, or to stop doing what he's doing.
28.5 says that the woman gets a young husband - find someone else.

 

[VeronicaV]

Thanks all of you. Feeling very low at the moment. Have taken the week to really be present and observe what is going on in my home, with my husband. It's quite bad & sad....this has all been very insightful to help me navigate even my own thoughts, and I feel more empowered than ever. It's like I'm so far from my strongest self, I'm angry. I'm so angry and pathetic to have let this happen. My husband is not a monster, but he has told me now for a while his feelings, his intentions...dumb me...of course, asks aaagain, is there aanything I can do to make him trust me or change his mind....23 unchanging. Its over. But yet, we are living together going on about our horrible daily routine and lives and there's no hope. I feel bad for him, he's so sad and me too. He's sad, not for hurting me, but for his own life resulting in shambles. I'm utterly lost as to what to do, how to mooove on? Since it's really over it seems. We don't have a kid or two...there are a lot of them. It's so weird because things can be copasetic and we are like planning the future....but I want the happy life, the life full of a loving man who thinks I'm someone special, I don't even know what that could feel like anymore. I keep getting readings like, How to do this without it being so painful...is there a less painful way for this to go down...I forget what the actual readings were, but having a heart-to-heart with him last night (a limited / somewhat superficial one, but guided based on what I know now..and he calmly clearly stated his intentions and that I can leave if I don't like xy or z...but as calm and as pleasant as could be.)...it's like I wish we could be friends and stay in each other's lives...and co-parent. Maybe one day, but where it stands, in my mind based on his words and actions, has been that he keeps all the children and I can fight in court if I wanted to, but I better watch my back when I least expect it and don't try to get custody of the boys ever....saying the word custody is like sick to me. So, that's not even a real thought or possibility. We are not court people, we are not even traditional society people, so I don't trust this system and don't trust anything, him and my little family was all I had even though it's not healthy for me really. I asked "Which direction should I go"...not sure if I mean mentally or physically, both I guess. I can't even figure how I would ever actually physically leave. Mentally I'm lost as well as what to focus on. I got 8 unchanging.....

 

[Matali]

Thanks all of you. Feeling very low at the moment. Have taken the week to really be present and observe what is going on in my home, with my husband. It's quite bad & sad....this has all been very insightful to help me navigate even my own thoughts, and I feel more empowered than ever. It's like I'm so far from my strongest self, I'm angry. I'm so angry and pathetic to have let this happen. My husband is not a monster, but he has told me now for a while his feelings, his intentions...dumb me...of course, asks aaagain, is there aanything I can do to make him trust me or change his mind....23 unchanging. Its over. But yet, we are living together going on about our horrible daily routine and lives and there's no hope. I feel bad for him, he's so sad and me too. He's sad, not for hurting me, but for his own life resulting in shambles. I'm utterly lost as to what to do, how to mooove on? Since it's really over it seems. We don't have a kid or two...there are a lot of them. It's so weird because things can be copasetic and we are like planning the future....but I want the happy life, the life full of a loving man who thinks I'm someone special, I don't even know what that could feel like anymore. I keep getting readings like, How to do this without it being so painful...is there a less painful way for this to go down...I forget what the actual readings were, but having a heart-to-heart with him last night (a limited / somewhat superficial one, but guided based on what I know now..and he calmly clearly stated his intentions and that I can leave if I don't like xy or z...but as calm and as pleasant as could be.)...it's like I wish we could be friends and stay in each other's lives...and co-parent. Maybe one day, but where it stands, in my mind based on his words and actions, has been that he keeps all the children and I can fight in court if I wanted to, but I better watch my back when I least expect it and don't try to get custody of the boys ever....saying the word custody is like sick to me. So, that's not even a real thought or possibility. We are not court people, we are not even traditional society people, so I don't trust this system and don't trust anything, him and my little family was all I had even though it's not healthy for me really. I asked "Which direction should I go"...not sure if I mean mentally or physically, both I guess. I can't even figure how I would ever actually physically leave. Mentally I'm lost as well as what to focus on. I got 8 unchanging.....

Hello,
23 : As you can read in this hexagram, his judgment is "It is not advantageous to go anywhere". That means not to act for the time being, it seems to me. There are trigram specialists on this forum who may explain to you the symbolism of the mountain and the earth that supports hexagram 23. You talk about horrible daily routine but you have adorable little children, try to regain confidence in life, stay calm, find motivation for your children...

You had hexagram 8 for your question about the direction to take: I see it as a search for connections, people who could help you: colleagues, marriage counseling... Take care

 

[rosada]

8. Seeking Union. Late comers meet with misfortune.

You need to make a decision. Either you choose to honor your marriage vows and stay with this man no matter what till death do you part or you recognize you've stayed until the marriage was essentially dead already and there's no need to hang around until you yourself are also a corpse.

Once you decide, the path you choose will open up for you and you'll see what you need to do next. The worst thing you can do is to delay making this decision (late comers meet with misfortune).

 

[redoleander]

I think that 23 might also be referring to you seeing the dynamic laid bare, without illusion. It’s stripped back. While it’s true there isn’t much you can do when you receive 23 UC it also means that any effort you keep pouring into the situation will drain you beyond belief. So, in the context of a marriage, you can’t really just do nothing (if anything that’s what’s already been going on, by leaving the situation in tact as it is) and you might need to leave.

I wasn’t a part of the earlier readings and discussion but I might add that saying “we” are this or that kind of people might not be such a good idea because it assumes you as a team. It doesn’t really sound like you are a team right now and so you will very likely need other interventions, like a mediator or a court. You could potentially sustain harm if you don’t sufficiently protect yourself. You don’t know exactly who you’re going to encounter (meaning who he will be) once you’re actually fighting for what’s fair. 8UC is talking about that, in my opinion. That you’re still thinking of yourselves as a unit but you need to see if there’s really evidence of that, or if you need to seek union with others who can help you. A confidential consultation with a lawyer might be a good first step, for example

 

[VeronicaV]

Thank you so much! When I thought about things more, I feel like getting the 23 uc was not that our relationship is fully dead/ over, but that, exactly it's been stripped back without illusion...this is the plain truth of the situation. The hard truth. Our daily lives aren't horrible in fact, but they can be stressed...instead of wanting for the love and desire, it's comforting to just have the facts. I have been feeling peace in observing things...I feel more confident to leave if that's what I really want and also to stand up for myself. I had a great time with my family and just being there and not forcing my will on the situation, being the observer that I am (sad in a way, things aren't perfect, but they can be still be good) and I pondered Rosada's comments about 8uc....I had just decided that I would take forever deciding, then I read what she wrote and was like whoa....and it hit me like a ton of bricks....I am not ready to separate our family at all. I want to cherish our lives together as a whole much more and do what I can where I can. I'm not going to pour anything else into the situation...I'm a great person and I'm going to focus on personal development, health, and also being with my kids. As soon as I came to this clear 'decision,' I don't know....I feel good about it. I did these readings as well -

What am i missing in my observations of my husband and family?

58.1 to 47

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/reading/free-online-i-ching/your-reading/?lines=978778&text=barrett&question​

I feel like there is joy and fun and sometimes I make it all negative in my mind, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

If I stay and do my very best what will
happen?


38.6 to 54


https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/rea...r-reading/?lines=778789&text=barrett&question
=

When I say, "do my best," I'm referring to some ongoing things I have said I'm going to committ myself to working on and bettering in myself that will also benefit my family. (regular exercising, self defense training, healthy nutritious lifestyle, doing yoga, doing more art - finding/making the time, etc., Teaching the children things that I know how to do... These are also things my husband has encouraged me to do over the years and make a commitment to seeing them through and I have not. I always run late, never plan ahead, don't take out time to make a schedule that works, make a weekly menu, etc. Mom stuff, Wife stuff....

 

[VeronicaV]

I should add more of what I think my readings are saying -
38.6 to 54....Seems positive enough. These actions will do more to join me in the group than keeping me isolated like I've been, though I will always be lesser than or a more positive way of looking at it, a support person....
I stayed up really late last night and did a bunch of mom stuff....cleaned my young girls' room really well and finally, finally organized all of their clothes...it had been a disaster area for weeks...I kept saying I would do it, finally did it...they ended up both waking up in the middle of the night and had fun helping a little. They were amazed, they refound all of their precious toys, they saw how many nice clothes they had...my 7 year old who has been refusing to hug me for months...was very loving and affectionate, hugging me, saying goodnight...it was a very nice bonding moment and I think more of that will come with these efforts. I do feel like I've had an epiphany of sorts. I'm going to stay focused on being a great mother and the way will open for me. The passionate love is past with my husband, but there is still a relationship that can be developed, a new one. Also a more loving relationship with myself. There was a reading I did, I thought I had posted it, but I can't find it...it referenced me getting help from great people for 10 days or something like that...it's been this community/ all of your comments/ like I said, this has been 10+years of contained thoughts that I've been able to work through here, as embarrassing as it is, thank you for your help. This site has been the great people...at the time I thought it was ridiculous, who is going to help me?, but it really has.