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What can I do to be included in conversation with the rest of the team? Hexagram 10.1.4.6

giraffecloud

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This is a question about my fellow martial art students. At the time I asked this question, I was feeling isolated from the group. I wasn't sure if it was because I'm female or if I come across as aloof. Judging by the lines and hexagram, I felt that they were saying things will work out but I should be cautious of what I discuss.

I really feel that with multiple lines, the I ching is trying to give me a deeper answer. I checked out the cafe au soul interpretation of the lines and it spoke to me on a deeper level.

I feel that line 1 is telling me not to be so uptight.

Line 4 says "All obstacles that you face become opportunities for further insight into your purpose in life." This interested me because recently I've been having nihilistic thoughts or thoughts such as "all there is to existence is competition" which is the complete opposite of what I have spent my life believing but I believe these thoughts are being driven by my depression.

"Line 6 Watching the steps = examining omens. Changes to (58) Joy. At the precipice of enlightenment we measure insight and inspiration against the path to find a correlation. Finding meaning in this way brings Joy and success. You can play victim or look back upon your conduct and consequences to see how you brought about the result. There may be conditioning or early beliefs that you need to release in order to overcome fear and participate more intimately with others. How delightful to discover meaning in life!" This is very relatable because I have had very negative social experiences in the past and that could be what is causing me to be apprehensive. So this is something I need to overcome.

The hexagram changes to repeating chasms. This is a hexagram I associate with my bipolar. What happens is I overcome one type of negative thought like paranoia and when I overcome it, it's replaced with a sense of nihilism. Lately, one student started a conversation about with me which was good but then the nihilism took over.

I feel that line 6 has been especially helpful into understanding where these negative thoughts are coming from and eventually I might find a sense of joy and purpose.

 

my_key

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What can I do to be included in conversation with the rest of the team? Hexagram 10.1.4.6 <> 29

Hi giraffecloud
It sounds like this not fitting into the group is a big deal for you at the moment.

Hex 10 meaning 'not abiding where you are'
Hex 29 meaning 'what is below'

You are currently in the chasm (what is below) and not able to rest easy with what you see there.

The guidance of Hex 10 as to what you can do is to become more discerning about what is happening in the situation, Come to terms with it and set it right. Leaving your past (behaviours?) behind can be difficult and deep within this situation is the challenge for you to bring into your awareness what is necessary to make amends and then to bring your influence to bear in order to improve and then maintain a constant relationship and feel part of this group.

10.1 - Set the boundaries you need to feel safe, both inside and outside, then maintain them.
10.4 - Slowly bring your inner and outer needs together. Make things nourishing for you.
10.6 - Reflect on how things progress as you increasingly trust your chosen path. Make adjustments as required and most of all believe in yourself as that will bring best results.

...or it may be nothing like that for you.

Good Luck
 

redoleander

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I think this reading might be suggesting you look at deeper patterns of feeling left out, ignored, or excluded. Line 6 wants you to look at everything (or at least some things) that have led up to this moment/experience and understand better what got you there. What is the meaning behind this feeling? Since this one specific experience by itself probably isn't that meaningful, more just an opportunity to better understand. By understanding that better (with compassion and kindness, of course, not judging yourself) it will be a lot more clear what is a genuinely healing or helpful step.

As far as suggested action, keep it really simple. Nothing passive aggressive, manipulative, or that misrepresents how you really feel. Line 1 is about simplicity and acting totally straightforward and with innocence, while Line 4 says that anything too tricky, complicated, or dramatic probably isn't worth it. Save the big risks for things that are truly important. In this case, I'm inclined to wonder if the danger we see in Line 4 is more internal, that the situation feels high-stakes and emotionally dangerous because of past experience. If so, and you feel able, maybe it's the right time to risk doing something different, pure, and direct to alter this course of feeling this way in group situations. If that feels too big, don't do it. Being simple and honest with yourself, doing the reflection and inquiry of Line 6 would be enough if it helps you have a different relationship to the circumstance.
 

giraffecloud

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Hi giraffecloud
It sounds like this not fitting into the group is a big deal for you at the moment.

Hex 10 meaning 'not abiding where you are'
Hex 29 meaning 'what is below'

You are currently in the chasm (what is below) and not able to rest easy with what you see there.

The guidance of Hex 10 as to what you can do is to become more discerning about what is happening in the situation, Come to terms with it and set it right. Leaving your past (behaviours?) behind can be difficult and deep within this situation is the challenge for you to bring into your awareness what is necessary to make amends and then to bring your influence to bear in order to improve and then maintain a constant relationship and feel part of this group.

10.1 - Set the boundaries you need to feel safe, both inside and outside, then maintain them.
10.4 - Slowly bring your inner and outer needs together. Make things nourishing for you.
10.6 - Reflect on how things progress as you increasingly trust your chosen path. Make adjustments as required and most of all believe in yourself as that will bring best results.

...or it may be nothing like that for you.

Yeah, I think making it a big deal is an effect from my depression.
The interesting thing about the past being brought up in this reading is that one of the students that goes was in my year at high school and his mates bullied me although recently I had a friendly conversation with him but perhaps that is something I need to tackle?

That's some good advice. I wasn't sure about your line 4 at first with "bringing needs together" but I think you mean take care of these needs simultaneously in order to bring them together.

I like your interpretation of line 6 as well. By trusting in my path, I will be able to look back at my progress. That's pretty cool.
 

my_key

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Yeah, I think making it a big deal is an effect from my depression.
The interesting thing about the past being brought up in this reading is that one of the students that goes was in my year at high school and his mates bullied me although recently I had a friendly conversation with him but perhaps that is something I need to tackle?
Bullying can certainly leave a deep scar on how we think, speak and behave and also impact our self exteem and trust. Only you will really know if this is something you need to tackle to become better integrated with the team.
That's some good advice. I wasn't sure about your line 4 at first with "bringing needs together" but I think you mean take care of these needs simultaneously in order to bring them together.
Line 4 is the line that points towards choices, beliefs and finding the right road. Here, if taken in isolation, the changing line aligns with Hex 61 your Inner Truth. Bringing needs together doesn't necessarily mean simultaneously, as I see it. What is important to recognise is that the alignment of your inner and outer needs will lead you naturally on to better circumstances. How you choose to accomplish this is all down to you.
I like your interpretation of line 6 as well. By trusting in my path, I will be able to look back at my progress. That's pretty cool.
I'm glad that you have found this line of use too.

I hope things progress well for you.

Take care.
 

giraffecloud

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I think this reading might be suggesting you look at deeper patterns of feeling left out, ignored, or excluded. Line 6 wants you to look at everything (or at least some things) that have led up to this moment/experience and understand better what got you there. What is the meaning behind this feeling? Since this one specific experience by itself probably isn't that meaningful, more just an opportunity to better understand. By understanding that better (with compassion and kindness, of course, not judging yourself) it will be a lot more clear what is a genuinely healing or helpful step.

As far as suggested action, keep it really simple. Nothing passive aggressive, manipulative, or that misrepresents how you really feel. Line 1 is about simplicity and acting totally straightforward and with innocence, while Line 4 says that anything too tricky, complicated, or dramatic probably isn't worth it. Save the big risks for things that are truly important. In this case, I'm inclined to wonder if the danger we see in Line 4 is more internal, that the situation feels high-stakes and emotionally dangerous because of past experience. If so, and you feel able, maybe it's the right time to risk doing something different, pure, and direct to alter this course of feeling this way in group situations. If that feels too big, don't do it. Being simple and honest with yourself, doing the reflection and inquiry of Line 6 would be enough if it helps you have a different relationship to the circumstance.

Thanks Redoleander, the prospect of reflection is daunting because I'm so used to constantly being physically active. Having said that, I understand that to work hard at something, it needs time and practice so that's what I need to reflect and inquire. I like how you tell me not to judge myself because that's something I do a lot and I'm very hard on myself. Not sure what the something different thing is that I could do but perhaps that will come to me through reflection?
 

redoleander

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It's really interesting what you mentioned about someone in the group being friends with people who bullied you; that sounds like it could be the danger Line 4 is referring to? Or part of it?

In terms of what the 'different thing' is, based on the lines I think would be about staying away from anything too aggressive or complicated and just simply being open, honest, and sincere about what you need. And, yes, reflecting how maybe your past experiences inform this one and are causing the dynamic to repeat. This is true for all of us. Sometimes we have a schema operating that ends up repeating because our own behaviors feed into it. finding a language that makes sense to you to think about your part in the situation since it's the one part you can control. I hope it gets better with you for the group!
 
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diamant

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What can I do to be included in conversation with the rest of the team? 10.1.4.6 > 29
10.1 having a plain simple behaviour, then they can't put any blame you.
10.4 there's a tiger in the group (an aggressive person), it's lucky to be fearful of them (fear protects us).
10.6 look at the previous two omens. Once these have happened...
... the situation results in 29. The same danger will still be there.
So I don't think there's much you can do to fit into that group, because that group contains a tiger.
 

giraffecloud

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What can I do to be included in conversation with the rest of the team? 10.1.4.6 > 29
10.1 having a plain simple behaviour, then they can't put any blame you.
10.4 there's a tiger in the group (an aggressive person), it's lucky to be fearful of them (fear protects us).
10.6 look at the previous two omens. Once these have happened...
... the situation results in 29. The same danger will still be there.
So I don't think there's much you can do to fit into that group, because that group contains a tiger.

That's a lot more clearer. I notice both you and Redoleander talk about keeping my behaviour honest and simple, so it's probably not worth bringing up high school with that one guy (unless someone brings it up). The prospect of never fitting in saddens me but as my_key says I need to trust in my path.
 

giraffecloud

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Thanks Redoleander, the prospect of reflection is daunting because I'm so used to constantly being physically active. Having said that, I understand that to work hard at something, it needs time and practice so that's what I need to reflect and inquire. I like how you tell me not to judge myself because that's something I do a lot and I'm very hard on myself. Not sure what the something different thing is that I could do but perhaps that will come to me through reflection?
 
D

diamant

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finding a language that makes sense to you to think about your part in the situation

Redoleander gave some brilliant advice here, and I hope she comes back to offer you more elaborations.

The way I see this advice is:
change this phrase: "I never fit in"
into something like this: "I don't fit in with aggressive people, and that's good".
 

rosada

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Other perspectives..
10.1 The little cats are following Mama cat. You are at the end of the line so while you may not feel recognized as a part of this group but at least you haven't yet tread on Mama tiger's tail. You haven't offended the mighty Group Consciousness. Be wary of appearing as if you think you know all the answers.
10.4 You would very much like to be heard but speaking up will be a bit of a risk. Still, you deserve to be heard. If you are clear and focused and the time is appropriate you should do fine.
10.6 Neither God nor the Tiger play dice with the Universe. If you are following the proper procedures you will get the desired results.

29. Reads like a very scary situation. It sounds like quicksand to me, where you don't know where it's safe to step. Perhaps it is explaining that this so-called "Group" isn't really a solid united group at all. You just see it as that because you feel like an outsider and so everyone else looks like they are part of a collective but really everything is in a state of flux. The advice is to recognize someone who seems to know what's real and important and follow their lead. Perhaps by asking pertinent questions? Ask the questions everyone else is afraid to ask. They will be grateful to hear the answers and be invested in you, as their student, now being successful.
 

giraffecloud

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Other perspectives..
10.1 The little cats are following Mama cat. You are at the end of the line so while you may not feel recognized as a part of this group but at least you haven't yet tread on Mama tiger's tail. You haven't offended the mighty Group Consciousness. Be wary of appearing as if you think you know all the answers.
10.4 You would very much like to be heard but speaking up will be a bit of a risk. Still, you deserve to be heard. If you are clear and focused and the time is appropriate you should do fine.
10.6 Neither God nor the Tiger play dice with the Universe. If you are following the proper procedures you will get the desired results.

29. Reads like a very scary situation. It sounds like quicksand to me, where you don't know where it's safe to step. Perhaps it is explaining that this so-called "Group" isn't really a solid united group at all. You just see it as that because you feel like an outsider and so everyone else looks like they are part of a collective but really everything is in a state of flux. The advice is to recognize someone who seems to know what's real and important and follow their lead. Perhaps by asking pertinent questions? Ask the questions everyone else is afraid to ask. They will be grateful to hear the answers and be invested in you, as their student, now being successful.

I feel that this perspective is closest to what is going on. I think you're onto something with this idea that my outsider feelings are perceiving solid unity of the group actually being in a state of flux.

I also really like this advice.

Redoleander: I liked your advice on finding a language that would translate better to my situation although I wasn't sure where to start with that but I feel Rosada's interpretation makes more sense.

I did a single card tarot reading asking if I will eventually fit in. I got the empress. I think that's a positive sign because that is a happy card.
 

marybluesky

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Hello;

10.1: don't behave out of your usual ways; 10.4: although dealing with these fellows sounds stressful, no harm is done if you have to do it; 10.6: you'll find your way with them.

29 describes a situation where no solid ground is visible & one must act upon their feelings/senses/instincts. Don't fear, go through it, you have the force to master the situation.

PS: I just came across your last post: the "empress" card totally confirms the advice of your reading, at least the way I read it. Big YES.
 

giraffecloud

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Hello;

10.1: don't behave out of your usual ways; 10.4: although dealing with these fellows sounds stressful, no harm is done if you have to do it; 10.6: you'll find your way with them.

29 describes a situation where no solid ground is visible & one must act upon their feelings/senses/instincts. Don't fear, go through it, you have the force to master the situation.

PS: I just came across your last post: the "empress" card totally confirms the advice of your reading, at least the way I read it. Big YES.

That's some sound advice although I don't understand "no harm is done if you have to do it". Does that mean stand my ground? It does look like things will work out though so long as I behave honestly and responsibly.
 

marybluesky

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I mean you can finally fit in if you want to, though it sounds stressful & doubtful now.
 

giraffecloud

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So I went to my martial arts class today and was surprised to see one of my female friends there. I said to the coach that I feel like an outsider and he said it was because most of the group are in their twenties where as we are in our thirties. With my pal being there and the explanation from the coach, I feel that it's ok not to fit in.
 

giraffecloud

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Tonight at the martial arts class I got the respect of my fellow students after I sparred with a 16 year old boy who was a far more experienced fighter than me. He was dominating the fight until I screamed and turned things around in domination. The coach ended up telling me to sit down and let him take my place and once he finished, he gave me a fist bump. Afterwards the guys were like "You did really good, you showed some aggression and really enjoyable to watch". Another guy said my opponent must have been (to be polite) pooping himself because he and his partner stopped sparring to watch me.
 

rosada

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Interesting to reread the comments now knowing we're talking about a martial arts class. No wonder the lines refer to things being stressful and you doing what you have to do!
 

giraffecloud

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I had written in the original post that it was for martial arts. When I read your comment I imagined tiger cubs following mummy tiger and that made sense to me because all the students are learning to become tigers (so to speak). So I actually thought you knew it was about martial arts when you wrote your response.
 

giraffecloud

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After rereading repeating chasms, I have a deeper understanding. When I was sparring, I allowed the adrenaline to take over at a time when I felt like I was loosing. So I moved and it brought me honour.
 

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