Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
As to this 'great person,' or what 'great' actually does for us, I find it helpful for me to remember that 'great' is just one meaning among many; 'da' can also be: accomplished, complete, developed, enormous, entire, extreme, grand, great(er, est), mature, noble, noteworthy, realized, seasoned, serious, significant, strong, successful, wholesome, a master, vast, and vital among many others. (I think Harmen would have a good sense of which meanings were in use when the Yi was written.)
Hilary
There is no trigram named 'water'. There is kan, 'chasm', which is associated with running water.
You are seeing the 'same term' in English, but it's not the same in the original.
You have named this trigram 'water' in your book ? Okay the book is 9 years old but what baffles me is every time you write about this trigram in hexagrams, take the recent discussion on tennis in CC, you speak in terms of the qualities of flowing water. So does everyone else, including me.
I think we've discussed this before, where you've said kan is not water but chasm. You say that but continue to write of kan in posts and so on very much as flowing water not as chasms. I get that chasm is associated with running water but when you say kan is not water it's very puzzling in the light of everything else you write about kan and hexagram 29. @hilary;
I will not spreak for Hilary but what you describe happens a lot, even in the (old) books in China on the Yijing: that name and image are mixed up and used as synonyms of each other.
Each trigram has a ming 名, a name, and a xiang 象, an image. The name of ☵ is kan 坎. Its image is shui 水. Shui 水 means 'water'. Kan 坎 can mean 'chasm' (but for a hypothetically other meaning in the context of hexagram 29 see here http://www.yjcn.nl/serendipity/archives/127-The-pit-and-the-drum.html).
I don't see how the sixth line can be linked with all this
Not an excuse, think harder.
I will not spreak for Hilary but what you describe happens a lot, even in the (old) books in China on the Yijing: that name and image are mixed up and used as synonyms of each other.
Each trigram has a ming 名, a name, and a xiang 象, an image. The name of ☵ is kan 坎. Its image is shui 水. Shui 水 means 'water'. Kan 坎 can mean 'chasm' (but for a hypothetically other meaning in the context of hexagram 29 see here http://www.yjcn.nl/serendipity/archi...-the-drum.html).
but i find it even more interesting that Kan actually translates to chasm.
'Hollow' is Legge's translation of kan 坎. I find this interesting because the trigram is associated with the moon.
I don't think 'pit' in Yi is someone where one wants to be.
Ah, um, yes, quite. In my defence (your honour), I was responding specifically to JD's misconception that the same word 'water' was used to denote the trigram and the river - which would indeed be confusing/contradictory, if the same word were used for two pretty much unrelated things. But in fact they're two different words, and neither is 'water'. The only confusion here is created by relying on translations.You have named this trigram 'water' in your book ? Okay the book is 9 years old but what baffles me is every time you write about this trigram in hexagrams, take the recent discussion on tennis in CC, you speak in terms of the qualities of flowing water. So does everyone else, including me.
I think we've discussed this before, where you've said kan is not water but chasm. You say that but continue to write of kan in posts and so on very much as flowing water not as chasms. I get that chasm is associated with running water but when you say kan is not water it's very puzzling in the light of everything else you write about kan and hexagram 29. @hilary;
P.S. here are some of the meanings that the 漢語大詞典 gives for daren 大人:...
Thanks. What do you think of the idea (in Wu Jing Nuan, I think) that the 'great man' could be the diviner?
So, which line/oracle text is this from (characters did not come across in my browser)? And is it that some of your past readings suddenly 'made sense' or suddently you see they may have not ... ?Ah. So when the Zhouyi says 利見大人 it could mean "you really suck as diviner. Go see someone who actually is one." Suddenly several of my past readings make sense!
So, which line/oracle text is this from (characters did not come across in my browser)? And is it that some of your past readings suddenly 'made sense' or suddently you see they may have not ... ?
Thanks Harmen. And I suppose it could also mean, 'you've asked about gardening' or playing music, and since I'm neither a gardner nor a music teacher, I suggest you go see ....'So when the Zhouyi says it is' beneficial to see the great man' it could mean "you really suck as diviner. Go see someone who actually is one."
Also, sometimes the Chinese characters you post do come across, sometimes not.
Thanks again Harmen. Is it possible then that to 'cross the great river(s)' might be advice to cross some boundary or limitation (internal or external), or maybe to get out of our comfort zone? I'd expect that crossing a river in ancient times - especially one that was large or unknown - might feel like that.About da chuan大川, 'great river(s)': in the old texts it is most often used as a general reference to the large rivers in the country or state, which often served as boundaries. There is no reason why we couldn't translate it in the plural: 'advantageous to cross (the) great rivers'. This might be related to the zheng 征, the expeditions that are mentioned in the Zhouyi.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).