What does "positive" mean to the Yi?

[mirian]

Hello all,

I have seen quite often posts in which the person says that his or her reading sounds "positive" and, as such, the answer is a big Yes to whatever the question is. I used to go down that road when I started reading the Yi and nowadays I just want to write in their posts: please drop the "negative/positive" tag So, after coming across another post today with the "positive" label attached I asked the Yi itself:

"What does positive mean to you?" and the answer was Hex 59.2.6 >> 8
Basically, the Yi is saying:
59.2 - Go for what supports you (situations, people, strengths...)
59.6 - Avoid danger, steer clear of what is harmful (situations, people, fears...)

I interpret this as the Yi having our best interests at heart whenever a so called "positive" reading is drawn, which does not mean necessarily that the Yi and the person who asks the question would share the same views on what is positive or not. Breaking up, for example, can be "very positive" if the other half is far from supportive and only causes pain and trouble

I think that the Yi is being very kind to explain its views. Any other ideas on how to interpret 59.2.6 >> 8 ?

 

[pocossin]

What does positive mean to you?
59.2.6 > 8

A good ending. That is, the achievement of enduring values.

 

[Trojina]

Hello all,

I have seen quite often posts in which the person says that his or her reading sounds "positive" and, as such, the answer is a big Yes to whatever the question is. I used to go down that road when I started reading the Yi and nowadays I just want to write in their posts: please drop the "negative/positive" tag So, after coming across another post today with the "positive" label attached I asked the Yi itself:

"What does positive mean to you?" and the answer was Hex 59.2.6 >> 8
Basically, the Yi is saying:
59.2 - Go for what supports you (situations, people, strengths...)
59.6 - Avoid danger, steer clear of what is harmful (situations, people, fears...)

I interpret this as the Yi having our best interests at heart whenever a so called "positive" reading is drawn, which does not mean necessarily that the Yi and the person who asks the question would share the same views on what is positive or not. Breaking up, for example, can be "very positive" if the other half is far from supportive and only causes pain and trouble

I think that the Yi is being very kind to explain its views. Any other ideas on how to interpret 59.2.6 >> 8 ?

I particularly like post 12 in this thread...which is a sticky


http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=8682

 

[Trojina]

well here is post 12 for easy viewing, from Bradford

This is a classic tale from China that scopes the oversimplification part of the problem

The Daoist Farmer
Adapted from the Huainanzi, circa 139 BCE

A farmer named Sei Weng owned a beautiful mare which was praised far
and wide. One day this wonderful horse disappeared. The people of his village
offered sympathy to Sei Weng for his great misfortune. Sei Weng said simply,
"What makes you think this is bad?"
A few days later the lost mare returned, followed by a whole herd of wild
horses, led by a beautiful wild stallion. The village congratulated Sei Weng for his
great good fortune. He said, "What makes you think this is good?"
Some time later, Sei Weng's only son, while riding the stallion, fell off and
broke his leg. The village people once again expressed their sympathy at Sei
Weng's misfortune. Sei Weng again said, "What makes you think this is bad?"
Soon after, a war broke out and all the young men of the village except Sei
Weng's lame son were drafted and sent into a horrible battle. The village people
were amazed as Sei Weng's good luck. But Sei Weng only replied, "What makes
you think this is good?"


Other parts of the problem are our infinite capacity for denial and our haste to see what we want to see. So we are well-advised to look at everything from at least two sides. This is partly why the Zhouyi text is loaded with so much irony, like chiding for weeding in 43.5 because the greens being weeded are so edible and easily grown.

 

[ginnie]

I was thinking that it's only natural to think in terms of a green light or a red light, especially since we're frequently asking about doing something. Maybe you have a little bit of ill-will against people for using this simplistic positive/negative frame of reference? I think the 59 reading has to do with your attitude toward these other people and their simplistic way of expressing themselves. They run to the Yi for support, and you do, too, so we all have that in common. In giving you 59.6, Yi is saying it considers you strong enough to send these judgmental thoughts far away. We have to develop tolerance for other people and learn to read between the lines, because all of us are rather clumsy in expressing what are really very complex readings.
:bows:

 

[mirian]

Maybe you have a little bit of ill-will against people for using this simplistic positive/negative frame of reference? Yi is saying it considers you strong enough to send these judgemental thoughts far away. We have to develop tolerance for other people

Dear Ginnie,

I appreciate your comments but I have no idea where you got those ideas about my personality and attitude. "I have ill-will against people"? "I have to send judgemental thoughts far away?" "I have to develop tolerance"?

Your certainly did not get those ideas from the reading, that is for sure, and you know nothing about me either, thank you.

 

[Trojina]

I was thinking that it's only natural to think in terms of a green light or a red light, especially since we're frequently asking about doing something. Maybe you have a little bit of ill-will against people for using this simplistic positive/negative frame of reference? I think the 59 reading has to do with your attitude toward these other people and their simplistic way of expressing themselves. They run to the Yi for support, and you do, too, so we all have that in common. In giving you 59.6, Yi is saying it considers you strong enough to send these judgmental thoughts far away. We have to develop tolerance for other people and learn to read between the lines, because all of us are rather clumsy in expressing what are really very complex readings.
:bows:

Hmm I don't feel it shows ill will to highlight that seeing Yi's answer as either positive or negative is potentially quite limiting, possibly even misleading. If questioning the positive/negative approach to seeking answers speaks of 'ill will' then is the sticky I linked to above, thats been at the top of Exploring Divination for sometime now, by popular request,....does that speak of 'ill will' too ?


I noticed this a few days back where someone got hex 1 twice and you told them it meant they would be married

Jenati, that is extraordinary that you received hex 1 for both your question about reuniting and your question about marrying. So, in a sense you did not even have to ask your third question because it seems that the answer to your first two questions was a strong yes. "Sublime success" say the various translations ... All best wishes to you. Don't be confused. You have received deeply significant omens.

While the answers were significant it wasn't a strong yes and didn't mean she would get married (or that she won't get married, it doesn't say) You are entitled to your opinion of the reading and yes everyone sometimes comes up with pretty definate positive/negative angles on answers, including me, but I think it helps us to keep on nudging aside the whole positive/negative answer mentality here because it seems to blind people to what is really being said, both by Yi and the commentator.

BTW I generally appreciate your answers , the only reason I quoted you is you say its 'ill will' to question how we can make a blind alley out of the whole negative /positive thing .....but I think veering too much into unfounded positive/negative prediction can perpetuate a somewhat misleading idea of answers and what you said in this thread reminded me of that hex 1 answer that puzzled me the other day.

Maybe you just had a very definate kind of a day that day this was the thread for clarity http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=16072

 

[ginnie]

I do think of hex 59 as signifying the dispersal of ill-will, so that's where the idea of ill-will and attitude came from. I did not mean to state the ill-will as a fact, but rather to ask the question if this could be a factor ... I know that the I Ching does not provide Yes/No answers. Since we are often asking for direction, however, people will search to understand the positive direction indicated by the moving lines and to shun what is seen as negative. Many moving lines are neither positive or negative; your point is well taken. But don't many lines end with a definite auspice? Well, I guess this is where the delicate art of interpretation comes in ...

I am one who believes that Yi is attempting to guide us in a better way and to warn us of pitfalls should we choose certain other directions. This idea has certainly been borne out in my own life's experience.

I believe we are not living in the "present" as we think we are. I believe we are living in a past that is already over and this is based on my study of A Course in Miracles and my study of the I Ching. The I Ching is located in a position time-wise where it can offer us guidance as to the paths we take, I have no doubt, as it can tell us where our decisions will lead us and nudge us along a better way.

 

[mirian]

I do think of hex 59 as signifying the dispersal of ill-will, so that's where the idea of ill-will and attitude came from. I did not mean to state the ill-will as a fact, but rather to ask the question if this could be a factor ...

In order to understand how you actually interpret the Yi, would you please clarify your views on the original reading "What does positive mean to you?" ( you being the I Ching) - Hex 59.2.6 >> 8

In which line did you find the message...?

Yi is saying it considers you strong enough to send these judgmental thoughts far away.

And especially how did a question asking the I Ching to clarify its own views became a depiction of the querent's attitude?

I think the 59 reading has to do with your attitude toward these other people and their simplistic way of expressing themselves.

Have you used any particular method?

Thank you.

 

[soshin]

59.2 - Go for what supports you (situations, people, strengths...)
59.6 - Avoid danger, steer clear of what is harmful (situations, people, fears...)

I think this is self-explaining. Wonderful Self-Interpretation by the Master Himself.

 

[ginnie]

In order to understand how you actually interpret the Yi, would you please clarify your views on the original reading "What does positive mean to you?" ( you being the I Ching) - Hex 59.2.6 >> 8

I'm sorry if my way of putting this was offensive, Mirian. I can see, upon re-reading what I wrote, that it was baldly stated and certainly seemed unfounded.

I was looking at that hex 8, which usually signifies the people we are allied with, or our seeking for another group. So, to my mind at the time, Yi seemed to be speaking about the querant and who the querant sees herself connected with, not speaking about itself per se.

Putting that point of view aside as unfounded, hexagram 59 signifies to me the melting or dispersal of rigidity, hostility, anxiety, or ill-will. The opposite of being anxious or hostile is the state of mind anyone, not just Yi, would call "positive."

Yi's answer does seem to be in the context of alliances, those we are connected with, because of that hex 8.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[mirian]

Thank you for your response. You are quite right, I did find your comments more personal than anything, not quite "I Ching founded".
But I do sincerely appreciate your clarification on your views and apology accepted.

Take care :bows: