What does the Senate think of Brett Kavanaugh? 22.3 ->27

[compass]

Hi,

I watched Dr Christine Ford's and Brett Kavanaugh's testimonies before the US Senate yesterday. I very much believed her and felt he was evasive, belligerent, and lying. Given the statements of both the Republicans and Democrats on the Judiciary Committee, I was curious as to how the Senate would vote next week. I know it's not good to ask yes/no questions, so I cast with the question 'How does the Senate view Brett Kavanaugh?' I wasn't thinking of only the 21-member committee but what was the general feel or majority opinion of all 100 Senators. And I got 22.3->27.

At first I was downcast, with Beauty leading to Nourishment.

'Beautiful, as if dipped in water
Ever-flowing constancy, good fortune.'

But then I read the line interpretation in WikiWings, and I was hopeful that all was not lost:

'it's just a momentary sheen until the water evaporates. Two risks: that you might be seduced by this and imagine something is far healthier and glossier than it really is, and drown in your imaginings; . . . So it's auspicious to be constant, retaining awareness of your distinct self. Get deeply involved, be penetrated through by the quality of the time, and also preserve personal integrity.'

I feel the I Ching is saying the Senate is swept up in Kavanaugh's 'beauty/sheen' (i.e., his supposed innocence'), but that if they were to investigate the allegations further and not just go with the flow, they might discover the truth and also retain their integrity.

What do you think? (And apologies for bringing a bit of politics into this forum. If it's not allowed or encouraged, I will take this posting down.) :bows::bows:

 

[diamanda]

They think he's drunk or on drugs.

 

[Lavalamp]

Did Judge Brett Kavanaugh really sexually assault Christine Ford?

21.3.5>13

21.3 - Bites on old dried meat and strikes something poisonous. Slight humiliation. No blame.
21.5 - Bites on dried lean meat. Receives yellow gold. Perseveringly aware of danger. No blame.
(Wilhelm/Baynes,)

Hex 21 often refers to legal decisions. Biting Through.
Dried out or cured meat is a very old issue. Poison (or decay) speaks for itself.
Yellow Gold is the color of the middle way, the case is difficult but clear cut, and the decision just.

Both lines say no blame (alternately "Without fault.")

No, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.

- LL

 

[Lavalamp]

"Will Kavanaugh now be confirmed?"
15.3>2
15 Modesty, Temperance.
15.3 A superior man of modesty and merit carries things to conclusion. Good fortune.

Whatever happens he will have good fortune.
Undoubtedly true, he has many good friends and he is rich who has many friends.

- LL

 

[Lavalamp]

What does the Senate think of Brett Kavanaugh?
22.3

The third line, dynamic, shows its subject with the appearance of being adorned and bedewed with rich favors. But let him ever maintain his firm correctness, and there will be good fortune.
Confucius/Legge: If he maintains his firm correctness, in the end no one will insult him.
Wilhelm/Baynes: The good fortune of constant perseverance cannot, in the end, be put to shame.

Speaks for itself. He stands up for himself, in the end no one can shame him.

- LL

 

[rosada]

I have come to think 22.3 has something to do with misunderstandings - like the stones are like radio crystals that transfer messages. If the crystals are cloudy there are misunderstandings. Thus the necessity of cleansing to dissolve cloudy impressions. Water to make the stones clean and able to transmit their Truth.
I think Kavanaugh ultimately will be seen as a catalyst for cleansing. His unequivocal unsuitability for the position gives Senators who were unable to speak independently the courage now to break their chains to the special interest groups and do the job they wee elected for - to speak (27) in the best interests of The People.

So yeah, they probably see him as a drunk, but also as a wake up call.

 

[Lavalamp]

That is such a stretch Rosada.

- LL

 

[moss elk]

Why is anyone wasting their time with this reading? Has anyone a bet riding on it?

 

[Lavalamp]

Because the only time the Yi has been predictive for me has been on major issues like this.

- LL

 

[rosada]

Yeah, it was a stretch, LL.

 

[moss elk]

I think everyone is reading into this reading. Since the Senate is composed of 100 individuals, with individual (and group) thought, The question is impossible to answer. 'What does the Senate think?'


What does the Senate think of Brett Kavanaugh? 22.3 ->27

He was meticulously dressed, groomed, and mosturized, and maybe powdered.

That is how he appeared, were you in the room.

K.I.S.S.

 

[compass]

Why is anyone wasting their time with this reading? Has anyone a bet riding on it?

I don't have a bet riding on it, but I thought for a change from all of the relationship, career, and health questions that are posed, it would be interesting to discuss this issue and to see what the I Ching had to say about it, particularly as it's such an important issue on many levels, from whether sexual assault victims are believed and giving them the courage to come forward to how candidates for such an important position as Supreme Court Justice are deemed worthy and how politics is battled nowadays in the USA.

Personally, I don't believe Judge Kavanaugh and the way he's behaved in the hearings has made me doubt his worthiness to be on the Supreme Court. Likewise, I'm saddened as to how the Senate has distorted these accusations and proceedings that I don't think they will get a clear, impartial investigation.

So I tend to favor my interpretation of 22.3 -> 27, but if it turns out I'm wrong, then so be it. :bows:

 

[rosada]

Well I think it's really useful to have these larger issue questions to discuss because the more personal readings are often so subjective (Does she love me? What kind of work am I suited for?) that it's not always possible to give any sort of meaningful interpretations, whereas these questions about things happening in the news not only refer to situations we are all somewhat familiar with but also frequently have verifiable result and thus we can know if our interpretations were correct. (Not like some readings where the questioner never comes back to reveal the final answer, grrr...) So I'm all for it. Besides, I think Moss's answer sums up 22.3 eloquently! Interesting how 22.2, he adds grace to his beard, or something, and 22.3, the beauty in the washed stones, both have to do with beautification but in 22.2 there is a sense that this attention to beauty is inappropriate where as in 22.3 it's a good thing. What's up with that? Hmm...22.1 Get down to earth, 22.2...don't guild the lily, 22.3 ..but seek to bring out it's true inner beauty instead?

 

[soshin]

Did Judge Brett Kavanaugh really sexually assault Christine Ford?

21.3.5>13

21.3 - Bites on old dried meat and strikes something poisonous. Slight humiliation. No blame.
21.5 - Bites on dried lean meat. Receives yellow gold. Perseveringly aware of danger. No blame.
(Wilhelm/Baynes,)

Hex 21 often refers to legal decisions. Biting Through.
Dried out or cured meat is a very old issue. Poison (or decay) speaks for itself.
Yellow Gold is the color of the middle way, the case is difficult but clear cut, and the decision just.

Both lines say no blame (alternately "Without fault.")

No, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.

- LL

According to this reading, Mr. Kavanaugh may very well get the office (recieve yellow gold). Not because the accusations were wrong (poisoned, old dried meat DOES very much speak about something rotten hidden in the past), but because a majority of the Members of the Senate may rule in favor of him.

On the other hand, LiSe writes about 21,5:
When one makes the root of difficulties visible or conscious, one creates the possibility to do something about it. There is a natural resistance against doing this, because it means change, which is usually hazardous.

If this interpretations relates to action after something poisonous hidden in the past came to light, (and I repeat, there IS something in 21,3) then a few Republican Members of the Senate may rule against their natural resistance against ruling to the disadvantage of one of their own kind.

Of course this would be hazardous, because in the - although unlikely - case of the Democrats winning a Senate Majority, a Liberal could become SCOTUS.

In my personal opinion neither of this will happen. Only in the case the FBI would bring the poisonous dried meat to the light of the day irrevocably for all to see and would convict Mr. Kavanaugh of perjury.

But 21,3 speaks of only slight humilation. Conviction of perjury wouldn't be only a slight humilation, it would be absolutely devastating.


(P.S.: I tried my best to be as "objective" as possible despite of me - if I were American, which I am obviously not - leaning heavily towards the left wing of the Democrats.)

Namaste,
:bows:
soshin

 

[rosada]

Good point about the possibility of 21.3 referring to something poisonous but only resulting in alight humiliation, Soshin!
2.5 "Receives the golden arrow. Perseveringly aware of danger." Makes me think that even though he is confirmed, this charge will hang over him and he will never be out from under it's shadow.

As of today I think he will be confirmed.
This delay is just to allow the general public to calm down and get bored with the drama and to then meekly accept the appointment Even if it costs votes in the short term that doesn't matter because the Republicans want one of their own on the Supreme Court and they are willing to play a long game here. His confirmation may cost them the election and even Trump's re-election but this guy will give them the Supreme Court for the next 40 years! Goodbye Roe vs Wade.

 

[soshin]

Good point about the possibility of 21.3 referring to something poisonous but only resulting in alight humiliation, Soshin!
2.5 "Receives the golden arrow. Perseveringly aware of danger." Makes me think that even though he is confirmed, this charge will hang over him and he will never be out from under it's shadow.

As of today I think he will be confirmed.
This delay is just to allow the general public to calm down and get bored with the drama and to then meekly accept the appointment Even if it costs votes in the short term that doesn't matter because the Republicans want one of their own on the Supreme Court and they are willing to play a long game here. His confirmation may cost them the election and even Trump's re-election but this guy will give them the Supreme Court for the next 40 years! Goodbye Roe vs Wade.

Soshin now not trying to be objective anymore:
Republicans have shown again and again over the recent years they are putting special party interests before ethics and state. Why should they change this? The price of even the slightest chance that the Democrats could install a liberal or if only a moderate Judge in the future is way too high from their point of view.

Only if the FBI comes out with virtually sensationally clear findings could they be forced by circumstances to not vote for him.

 

[compass]

I think everyone is reading into this reading. Since the Senate is composed of 100 individuals, with individual (and group) thought, The question is impossible to answer. 'What does the Senate think?'


What does the Senate think of Brett Kavanaugh? 22.3 ->27

He was meticulously dressed, groomed, and mosturized, and maybe powdered.

That is how he appeared, were you in the room.

K.I.S.S.

Actually, my question was 'How does the Senate view Brett Kavanaugh?' I miswrote it in the header--sorry about that. Regardless, I think your interpretation is right--that's how he was viewed.

I could recast with 'What does the Senate think of Brett Kavanaugh?' but I think the answer would amount to pretty much how Soshin and Rosada have described it: slight humiliation with Republicans playing the long game.

 

[diamanda]

Also, the (majority of) the senate might view him, or think of him, in a certain manner... and then go on to vote something else due to political pressure. So we don't really have a way to verify this.

 

[Lavalamp]

According to this reading, Mr. Kavanaugh may very well get the office (recieve yellow gold). Not because the accusations were wrong (poisoned, old dried meat DOES very much speak about something rotten hidden in the past), but because a majority of the Members of the Senate may rule in favor of him.

On the other hand, LiSe writes about 21,5:
[FONT=&]When one makes the root of difficulties visible or conscious, one creates the possibility to do something about it. There is a natural resistance against doing this, because it means change, which is usually hazardous.

If this interpretations relates to action after something poisonous hidden in the past came to light, (and I repeat, there IS something in 21,3) then a few Republican Members of the Senate may rule against their natural resistance against ruling to the disadvantage of one of their own kind.

Of course this would be hazardous, because in the - although unlikely - case of the Democrats winning a Senate Majority, a Liberal could become SCOTUS.

In my personal opinion neither of this will happen. Only in the case the FBI would bring the poisonous dried meat to the light of the day [/FONT]irrevocably [FONT=&]for all to see and would convict Mr. Kavanaugh of perjury.

But 21,3 speaks of only slight humilation. Conviction of perjury wouldn't be only a slight humilation, it would be absolutely devastating.


(P.S.: I tried my best to be as "objective" as possible despite of me - if I were American, which I am obviously not - leaning heavily towards the left wing of the Democrats.)

Namaste,
[/FONT]:bows:
soshin

Not an objective reading here either Soshin.
The question was did he commit the crime.
The bitter feelings towards the man who appointed Kavanaugh are plainly poisonous.
Yellow gold is not a position or reward he receives, it is wisdom, line 5 is the line of a Judge, supreme wisdom - a fair legal judgment.
Both of the lines say "no blame" alternately "no fault."
You can of course disagree with the Yi if you wish, but this reading - 21.3.5>13
- says no, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.
Why don't you do a reading asking if she was lying or not? And we can discuss what you get.

- LL

 

[Lavalamp]

"Why did Ford claim Kavanaugh assaulted her?"
13 unchanging.
Fellowship With Men. Union Of Forces. Cliques.
"Legge: Union of Forces describes a condition which is the opposite of the preceding hexagram of Divorcement. What was there distress and obstruction is here a union of forces. But it must be based entirely on the good of the whole, without any taint of selfishness."
The Yi cautions against selfish tainted motives in such a situation.
The Yi here says it was because of her group she brought this claim. Maybe she was pushed into it.
Conspicuously absent, any suggestion that she was motivated by actually being done wrong by Kavanaugh.

- LL

 

[Trojina]

Not an objective reading here either Soshin.
The question was did he commit the crime.
A yellow gold arrow is not a position or reward he receives, the commentaries say it is a fair legal judgment. The bitter feelings towards the man who appointed Kavanaugh are plainly poisonous.
Both of the lines say "no blame" alternately "no fault."
You can of course disagree with the Yi if you wish, but this reading - 21.3.5>13
- says no, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.
Why don't you do a reading asking if she was lying or not? And we can discuss what you get.

- LL

One good reason not to ask if she was lying or not is quite simple.

It's the same reason the above reading has no especial indicator of whether Kavanaugh assaulted Ford.

A Yi cast does not count as hard evidence of someone's guilt or not


How can it ?

And when making allegations of this kind hard evidence is needed and Yi casts are not hard evidence at all.

If you believe so strongly that your Yi cast definitely indicates Ford is lying then who needs courts and judges you can just decide with a toss of a few coins. You can even decide whether someone who says she went through an ordeal went through one or not with your Yi cast being the final word on the matter


Your view is not in any way more 'objective' than Soshin's. He also had a point about line 5

lavalamp
"Why did Ford claim Kavanaugh assaulted her?"
13 unchanging.
Fellowship With Men. Union Of Forces. Cliques.
"Legge: Union of Forces describes a condition which is the opposite of the preceding hexagram of Divorcement. What was there distress and obstruction is here a union of forces. But it must be based entirely on the good of the whole, without any taint of selfishness."
The Yi cautions against selfish tainted motives in such a situation.
The Yi here says it was because of her group she brought this claim.
Conspicuously absent, any suggestion that she was motivated by actually being done wrong by Kavanaugh.

- LL

All interpretations will be coloured by the subjectivity of the interpreter since we interpret from our point of view but when it is a factual matter I do not think it can be settled as conclusively as you imagine by a Yi cast. I think 101 things could be made of this cast not forgetting your own role in casting.


Was Ford assaulted ? I don't know for sure, not as yet. All I know is Kavanaugh was affirmed which doesn't mean Ford was lying. I mean I just read Trump was even mocking Ford but I'm hardly surprised at that.


I'm not sure why people use Yi, a highly poetic Oracle designed to speak to the consciousness of the one casting, to fact find but they do so it's up to them. General political questions are one thing but questions about whether a woman was assaulted or not are quite another.

You posted this question in several threads that other people started I think. It looks as though you want to continue on the theme.

 

[Trojina]

Oh and BTW if there has come to light conclusive legal evidence that Ford lied then link me. I am in the UK Sunday morning Googling I see nothing conclusive though I see a lot to fear about this man becoming Supreme Court Judge for sure but with Trump as president what can one expect.

Is the 'Handmaid's Tale' coming true ?

 

[Lavalamp]

Trojina, sure I understand this as a general rule.
However casting the Yi is also a way of checking one's own bias, by showing an open minded willingness to receive a view that one does not hold personally. The greater one's passions on any issue - for example the more one hates somebody for whatever reason - the harder the work to get back to the middle line of impartiality and fairness will be. We all have bias, we all have had readings that don't say what we want to hear, personally and otherwise and we struggle with that reflex to try to force fit it into what we want or think it is or should be.
After enough experience with the Yi you start to realize such resistance is futile.
The most biased people are the ones that think they have none, because they are making no effort to counter them.
The Yi said plainly when asked if Kavanaugh sexually assaulted Ford "No Fault/No blame." In of itself certainly not "hard evidence" no, but certainly should give pause to any student of the Yi that thinks an accuser's word is proof enough of a heinous crime.

- LL

 

[Trojina]

.
And the Yi said plainly regarding the charge against Kavanaugh "No Fault/No blame." In of itself certainly not "hard evidence" no, but certainly should give pause to any student of the Yi that thinks an accuser's word is proof enough of a heinous crime.

- LL

I don't think Yi did say that plainly. In general one cannot judge the guilt of a person as fact by Yi alone. Plucking a few words out to support a case - and you appear to be anti Ford from the start going by your words on this thread below also - doesn't make evidence of anything.


Linking to this other thread on the same topic where you posted the same 21 cast

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...6601-Will-Kavanaugh-be-confirmed-58-4-5-gt-19


...on that thread you said

Also one thing that I think that is always worth noting is when the Yi likes somebody and when it doesn't. The Yi can be very critical of people it does not like. And there plenty of lines with which to indicate a person is not a good person.
And here, the Yi describes the opponents of Kavanaugh as "disintegrating influences." Not in any way superior fair or noble, it is a most unflattering and inferior description.

- LL

I don't think Yi was critical of the people 'it' didn't like. Who you are seeing as a 'good person' or not depends on which side you are on. You are very much coming across as pro Kavanaugh and anti Ford and so all your interpretations have reflected that. You are entitled to your opinion but when you enlist Yi to support your opinion then, well I don't see that you have a basis for calling Soshin's view 'subjective' when you own clearly is subjective.


Also from that thread, same cast as you posted here

Did Judge Brett Kavanaugh really sexually assault Christine Ford?

21.3.5>13

21.3 - Bites on old dried meat and strikes something poisonous. Slight humiliation. No blame.
21.5 - Bites on dried lean meat. Receives yellow gold. Perseveringly aware of danger. No blame.
(Wilhelm/Baynes,)

Hex 21 often refers to legal decisions. Biting Through.
Dried out or cured meat is a very old issue. Poison (or decay) speaks for itself.
Yellow Gold is the color of the middle way, the case is difficult but clear cut, and the decision just.

Both lines say no blame (alternately "Without fault.")

No, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.

- L

So you are stating here that you know for sure Kavanaugh did not assault Ford and that you know that from the cast.


I just think however the cast appears to you, or anyone else, the final declaration you made can never be justified without hard factual evidence

No, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.

Well that's your conclusion. I have no idea if she was or she wasn't. If she was assaulted then people stating she was lying is just another of a thousand kicks in the teeth for her.


Also the questions about whether she was assaulted or if she was lying are very focused on the woman herself and not directly related to the question that was posted by the original poster either in this thread or the other one.

 

[Lavalamp]

I am stating an interpretation of the reading, as we all do on every issue under the sun.
You post your own interpretation. if what is typical here upsets you so.
We will let the reader - and time - be the judge.
I was correct btw, on interpreting the reading regarding him being confirmed.

- LL

 

[hilary]

"Why did Ford claim Kavanaugh assaulted her?"
13 unchanging.
Fellowship With Men. Union Of Forces. Cliques.
"Legge: Union of Forces describes a condition which is the opposite of the preceding hexagram of Divorcement. What was there distress and obstruction is here a union of forces. But it must be based entirely on the good of the whole, without any taint of selfishness."
The Yi cautions against selfish tainted motives in such a situation.
The Yi here says it was because of her group she brought this claim. Maybe she was pushed into it.
Conspicuously absent, any suggestion that she was motivated by actually being done wrong by Kavanaugh.

- LL

An alternative interpretation of this reading.

Why did she say he assaulted her?

‘People in harmony in the wilds: creating success.
Fruitful to cross the great river.
A noble one’s constancy bears fruit.’

Because of her sense of being a 'person in harmony' - a member of a community. In other words, because of her sense of civic duty. The 'people in harmony in the wilds' have come out beyond the walls of their own village, left the safety of 'their group' behind, and ventured into open country. There, they join together with people who are not their sort at all, in a greater cause.

The People in Harmony even dare to cross the great river, going into actively hostile territory that belongs to the current regime. (The history behind the hexagram is of diverse people coming together to form an army to overthrow a corrupt, oppressive regime.) There has been absolute Obstruction, but the idea is that now at last a noble one's constancy will bear fruit.

People in Harmony. She was saying, 'Me, Too,' joining a movement to make a difference.

By the way, I think this answer was intended for LL in particular, and is specifically answering the Republican talking-point, 'Why would she only say this now?' (Of course, she is not only saying it now, but this is her first time finding the courage to say it in public.)

 

[compass]

Hilary, I feel that's a spot-on interpretation. Accusations of Dr Ford being used by Democrats or that she had something to gain ignore the credibility and bravery of her testimony and action in coming forward. Thank you! :bows:

 

[rosada]

I too think it's significant that "conspicuously absent" in the I Ching's response to the question, " Why did Ford claim Kavanaugh assaulted her?" was any suggestion that she was motivated by being done wrong by Kavanaugh - but I think this reaffirms all the more that she was not speaking out for personal reasons, for money or revenge - she knew that personally she would be better off keeping quiet - but rather that she was speaking out for the good of the group - the country - and that is why she was willing to come forward.

Also, as we know the I Ching does not answer "yes" or "no" but rather gives a snap shot of the situation and leaves it up to the seeker to determine the answer, I therefore don't see 21.3.5 - 13 as meaning Kavanaugh did not assault her. Rather I interpret 21.3 and 21.5 as saying 21.3 this poisonous event has come out in the open but....21.5 it won't make any difference and Kavanaugh was ultimately invited to join the 13. group - the Supreme Court.

I think we have gotten way off the original question here. If people want to continue I think they should start a new thread.

 

[compass]

I think we have gotten way off the original question here. If people want to continue I think they should start a new thread.

You're probably right, Rosada. My original post was about how the Senate viewed him after his testimony on September 27th, but in some ways it's remained relevant as this last week unfolded.

It was never my intent to find out through the I Ching whether Judge Kavanaugh had assaulted Dr Ford or whether she was lying or whether the Senate would confirm him--again, staying away from yes/no questions.

Thank you everyone for contributing! I've really enjoyed the discussion.

 

[Lavalamp]

An alternative interpretation of this reading.
Because of her sense of being a 'person in harmony' - a member of a community. In other words, because of her sense of civic duty. The 'people in harmony in the wilds' have come out beyond the walls of their own village, left the safety of 'their group' behind, and ventured into open country. There, they join together with people who are not their sort at all, in a greater cause.....

People in Harmony. She was saying, 'Me, Too,' joining a movement to make a difference.

By the way, I think this answer was intended for LL in particular,

And Hillary, what is your interpretation of
"Did Brett Kavanaugh sexually assault Christine Ford?
21.3.5>13" ?
Would you also say "no blame/no fault" - in both lines - does not say no?
Would you interpret 21.5 not to mean the final decision was a just one?

Because the way you view the follow up question/answer - moving past obstructionism to united group force - is in the context of that previous reading.
And it should be noted 13 unchanging is not a united community, it is people in their separated groups. divided according to kind.

- LL