what is 25 about

[dragona]

Greetings Clarity, starting to miss you
A quick one this time...when in I am coming offering gifts situation one gets hex 25 unchanged as an answer, to me it looks like the gifts are unexpected just as unwanted.
The text puts the weight on motivation for such action, as I see it.
Any thoughts and experiances on this hex would be of help.
I see it is depicting low interest and an element of surprise, nothing deep, people passing each other by and saying hello in a spring blosomed park, that sort of thing.

 

[mryou1]

That's about how I'd interpret it. The line "No harvest in possessing directed going" jumps out. Meaning, no profit in your intended goal. But whether this is positive or negative is a bit iffy, as in 25 you naturally do not attain your intended want, but also remain free from some amount of danger.

 

[bradford]

This is from my online Gua Ming book on 25:
Artlessness or Guilelessness can translate both words in Wu Wang literally. This is about being true to your nature and ignoring whatever there is of culture that might get in the way of this. The Zhouyi makes a point of noting that this is not a guarantee that things will not go wrong, even if the converse is true and being Artful and full of Guile will generally get you into trouble. Zhuangzi proposes: "Perfect sincerity offers no guarantee." Things happen without reason or purpose, things happen by accident, although many reasons are made up in retrospect, especially to account for bad things happening to good people. Whole pantheons of deities are made up out of this. But a life lived simply to learn is superior to a life of pretending to know, and the odds generally fall in favor of the good-hearted. As an extra layer of protection against grave injustice, many societies add a presumption of Innocence or a benefit of the doubt for cases where questions arise, and the burden of proof falls on the accuser. People understand deep down that the violation of Innocence is a loss to us all, as it costs us our ability to trust. Without trust there can be no civilization.

 

[meng]

So I guess 25 rules out shaving armpits, dying hair or using whitening toothpaste, and nature forbid: a tattoo!

I really used to think that. But I've learned that many of those things are completely natural to some people.

 

[meng]

people passing each other by and saying hello in a spring blosomed park

That can be a sweet gift. It can even make someone's entire day.

 

[charly]

Greetings Clarity, starting to miss you
... hex 25 unchanged ... to me it looks like the gifts are unexpected just as unwanted.
... I see it is depicting low interest and an element of surprise, nothing deep, people passing each other by and saying hello in a spring blosomed park ...

Hi, Dragona:

I must agree with Brad: WU WANG means NOT ABSURD, say, POSSIBLE.
Things are not what they seem maybe we need to change the light, seeing like a negative copy which results in a positive reading:

GIFTS ALWAYS EXPECTED, JUST WANTED.
HIGHT INTEREST, NO SURPRISE, QUITE DEEP.
PEOPLE GOING TO EACH OTHER, NOT PASSING.
​

That´s our spring blossomed park

[I apoligize, broadband collapsed]

An almost literal translation:

IT´S POSSIBLE
It can happen or it can be done.
Believe it or not.

SUPREME CELEBRATION, PROFITABLE OMEN.
Enjoy much, all be for good.
Said by the oracle.

THE UPRIGHT BANDIT HAS TROUBLE.
Maybe a favorable competitive context: a potential consumer for your goods.
There are men in trouble. Say, needy.

UNPROFITABLE TO HAVE FAR TO GO.
Useless to go too far.
Better remain now and here. If not now, when? If not here, where?
Profitable to come near.

​

THUNDER BELOW THE HEAVEN.
Stormy passion under command of God.
Fated passion.
No without control.
Lucky.


Some reasonable questions have answer:

Why Wilhelm or Legge didn´t speak of the bandit? because they prefer to CHANGE the character meaning BANDIT for it´s protograph meaning also NOT, both pronounced FEI, then, instead of BANDIT UPRIGHT, a good bandit, we had NOT UPRIGHT, a person that behaves badly and deceive to have trouble.

What sort of bandit is the UPRIGH BANDIT? One of the many bandits that ride trough the pages of the Changes GRABBING WIVES.

Why so much reticense whith the UPRIGHT BANDIT? Not upright fits better with the moral of the intended (by the translators) story. The wife grabbers were disreputable at the light of traditional chinese marriage.

I believe that westerners are allowed to prefer MORE LOVE and LESS REPUTATION, but that´s another story ...


Best whishes,

Charly

 

[dragona]

"Last edited by charly; October 27th, 2012 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: marriage. "
Congratulations
Further exploration brought 2.1<24 as a result, but after getting 25... 25 is pretty, makes your day surely, but what is a day in a lifetime...

Some great answers, thank you all :bows:

 

[charly]

"Last edited by charly; October 27th, 2012 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: marriage. "
Congratulations
Further exploration brought 2.1<24 as a result, but after getting 25... 25 is pretty, makes your day surely, but what is a day in a lifetime...

Some great answers, thank you all :bows:

Thanks, Dragona:

Of course, it happened more that 35 years ago!

I have to inform you that 2.1 says:

履霜堅冰至
lu3 shuang1 jian1 bing1 zhi4
TREADING FROST SOLID ICE WILL ARRIVE.
​

Which being about AUTUMN, is seen as an allusion of MARRIAGE JUST COMING.


And H.24 is 復 fu TO RETURN / TO COME BACK and also TO REPEAT and AGAIN.

And the omen is of course lucky.


All the best,


Charly

 

[trustcanon]

While Dragona has been offering gifts, the other one gets Hex 25 unchanged. The beneficiary might have been feeling their relationship as ‘thunder’ as opposed to ‘heaven’, or ‘elderly son’ to ‘father.’ Elderly son thinks himself too weak to confront with his father while holding his belief in no disaster, as can the thunder never beat the heaven. Other than the right would bring about blame. Going forward won’t call for good result. Dragona might as well be advised to understand the other party being grown up but weak yet to confront with. The motion that the beneficiary, having been given Dragona’s gift, encouraged, however, might have turned the relationship into Hex 2 where female horse virtue has made it possible to progress for a while but later staled as in Hex 24. Hex 25 would allow for good fruit followed by prudent efforts.

I would like Dragona to share describing this divination onset situation where what might have as well been decided before resorting to oracle consultation. Interpretation goes along the way with how deep resolution might be, so is important as Confucius I Ching Commentary puts more emphasis on how is advised to do what once after own decision made, rather than on what would come afterwards while lacking strong determination. Lifestyle is the choice which way to go but with advice of integrity, rather than hopping on an oracle to learn where to go for. Firm will would call for complementary advice, job done, otherwise should bring about hesitation, say, which one is better over another, helpless alternatives on. What time, date, and month of the year, if not also with where Dragona was at the time of sincere query while the beneficiary might have been where else, in terms of which directional distance from each other. Time and place have respective weight in terms of which way power is generated from, driven by, or drawn to. The most weight should be on the first Hex 25, and not much on the rest.