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what is it to be holy 29.4.6

steve

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This is a cast that one of my dear friend did
he always asks these questions

I found it here,,so i will post it for him, mind you
I am facinated by the mear question but the answer is profound

Steve
 

steve

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Its the 6th line that gets me
to be holy is it trully that hard

Steve
 

ben_s

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Interesting question, Steve.

29.4 seems easy enough. There is a simple way to have enough, with kindness.

I agree 29.6 looks scary. It also seems to me to have a sense of grim humor. "Locked away, stuck in thorns, can't move for three years... and by the way, this is bad news." The only positive thing is that three years is not forever.

If I read it right, 29.4,6 changes to 6 - conflict, your best opportunity is to compromise halfway.

Maybe your friend has too high a standard of holiness?
 
M

meng

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That's a dicey question alright. It assumes that there is such a thing as "holy", which is fine if there is, but what if there isn't? What if holiness is only a human concept? Then it could be a slippery slope into a deep pit.

Then there's the caveat: if there is such thing as holy, there is also such thing as unholy. Now we've really dug a big pit, for how does one who is unholy ever become redeemed to become holy? That's the entire foundation and premise of Christianity. And look where that's led to: the "holy" and redeemed ones, pointing to everyone who holds a different view as being eternally condemned to the 29 pit.

The relating gua is 5, so I guess all we can do is wait and see if they're right. But I suspect that in the meantime your friend is better served by filling his belly than his mind with such things as holiness.
 

dobro p

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29's going through danger, and 6 is contention (in which wisdom doesn't take things to the bitter end, but consults the sage).

So, for your friend, holiness requires that he/she go through a lot of dangers and learn how to take that feeling of being hard done by and let it go in favor of finding a holy person to be in touch with.

The dangers to go through: if I understand how things work on the spiritual path, then there are a *lot* of trials and dangers all along the way. In the beginning these are one's personal devils - the stuff in one's personal unconscious that you have to face and admit to in order to be honest enough to get anywhere. Later on, there's the temptation to use the power you get for personal purposes. Later on, there's the tendency to cling to any kind of sense of personal self at all. There's temptation all the way up the ladder, if I understand things right. So we all have to go through dangers.

Your friend's particular path to holiness though seems to include this element of contention, like he/she was complaining in a court of law: "It's not fair!" That's the opposite of acceptance, which is maybe one of the biggest lessons to learn.
 

steve

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well its pouring here now..i know that much
Steve
 

steve

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My friend who i love and am speaking of..was a christian ,he was jockey also
he is a really kind guy,
he loves me
he is looking for answers,,i told him he shouldnt ask these big questions
and he said "why not"

I will show him the tread sometime
Thx people

Steve
 

willowfox

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what is it to be holy 29.4.6 > 6

Line 29.4 suggests the need to be charitable to other living beings.

Line 29.6 suggests that first one must see the errors of one's own way before salvation of any kind can be achieved.

Hex 6 suggests the need to overcome internal conflicts of the mind, the need to always see another person's point of view and accommodate them.
 

ben_s

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Dobro's response brings up a really interesting question: What if the path of holiness is different for each person?

I wonder if this can be compared to physical health. For one person, the ultimate physical health might be to become a skinny marathon runner. For another person, the ultimate physical health might be to become a stocky wrestler. For yet another person, keeping their everyday life steady as much as possible, while they face a terrible disease, might be the best they can do.

If the wrestler tried to train and eat like the marathon runner, would that keep the wrestler from complete health?

If each person's body has a different potential, what if each person's soul also has a different potential? Maybe Steve's friend has a holiness path through struggle and fire. Maybe Steve has a completely different holiness path.
 

dobro p

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We all have different paths. (But they can be grouped, usually.) Some people approach it through the head, some through the heart, some through action. Those are three big traditional approaches, and almost always one of them is better for a particular person. I'm a 'head approach' person, for instance. I try to understand things intellectually, AS AN APPROACH. (I then have to let go of the intellect if I want to get further. This is where meditation comes in.) Inside each of those approaches, however, each person will have different needs and issues, based on their conditioning. (An intellectual approach with a personal background that includes abuse will have a very different set of needs, issues and flavors than an intellectual approach that grew up in a supportive family, for instance.) An astrological horoscope reveals a lot of this stuff, in terms of individual differences. If you know how to really read a horoscope, you can probably identify the major issues and know what the path will be like generally, at least in the initial stages.

Differenth paths, but the same destination.
 

ben_s

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Some people approach it through the head, some through the heart, some through action.

Hey, didn't Gurdjieff rip off this idea from you? ;)
 

dobro p

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Gurdjieff, yes, and many, many others. It's a good thing I didn't register a copyright on it.
 

fallada

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Let me play advocatus diaboli by taking a much lazier and less catholic route with interpreting 29 to 6.

‘Holy’ is a dangerouse concept. :eek: Even though it can bring some rays of light into the darkness of the human condition and it may satisfy some of men’s deep hunger for goodness, it will finally turn people into hopless prisoners of such a mindset and make them suffer. Once within its firm grip, it is impossible to escape.... :D.... So don’t go all the way with this, compromise: Don’t be holy, just be good.

PS: Since ‘holy’ is an intrinsic catholic concept, 29.4 possibly includes an allusion to the nourishment that men find in the flesh and blood of Christ.
 

mrmorrow

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sacrifice of ones life on earth for the eternal one.release from material and emotional prison on earth.simplicity and sincerity of heart.Religion will not provide you with the answer,some people are just born holy others pretend.
 

steve

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I knew this was going to happen
what is it with the questions..I told him they would discuss it
nobody believes anything i say

Steve
 

steve

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Sorry its like smudges on the fridge
but still he ask's

steve
 

steve

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I am the same as you in a way
the i ching bounces of the subconious or possibly the soul
this is not a game
but why do so many people look to pathetic paper horoscopes
and why do muscian and poets find comfort in the i ching
bohemians..so raw
do u know how much weight i have lost via fasting ever since i came
I AM OFFICIALLY .am a time lord

yea my next question will be
what is a time lord

Steve
 

dobro p

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Steve, you're drawn to beautiful ideas, and that's good. But in order to balance that, you need to eat regularly to ground yourself. Feet on the ground, head in the heavens - that's the ticket. Eat regularly. Take flight regularly. Balance. Nice.
 

ben_s

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nobody believes anything i say

Huh? Steve, I've seen people on the forums say they thought you overlooked something - but I haven't seen anyone flat out not believe you. Or is this about life outside the forums?
 

steve

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Sorry Ben
I meant outside the forum

Loves Buddy
Steve
 

steve

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Thx dobro
I am getting more balance, with eating regualrly etc
I got some very accurate reading after fasting , although i agree it's not something you do for ever

Steve
 

dobro p

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For certain people (I'm one, and I suspect you're another) there's a kind of lightheaded joy that goes with fasting, and interesting mental states occur. But it's ungrounded, and the times I have managed to get myself into the worst trouble psychologically have been the times I was fasting the most enthusiastically.

Eat. Do it regularly. Not light stuff either - eat stuff with body and ballast (cheese, nuts etc).
 

steve

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I always check out lise interpretations of the yi
before i look the old cathlolic guy..lol
I really love the celtic female interpritations,,

anyway

its very interesting as a contrast
most inciteful

Steve
 

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