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What is the difference between 64.2 and 64.3?

Yasmin

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I am puzzled as to how the advice in 64.2 is different from the advice in 64.3:

64: unfinished, as yet unsettled, not yet decided, not yet across.
Legge: Unfinished Business
suggests successful progress, butif the young fox that has nearly crossed the stream gets his tail wet, there will be no advantage.
Cleary (2): Being unsettled leads to success. A little fox, almost crossing, gets its tail wet. Nothing is gained

My paraphrase for 64 is: the outcome is not yet decided. It is beneficial to leave things unsettled for now, rushing ahead doesn’t help. Be patient, let the situation unfold.

64.2:
Wilhelm/Baynes:
He brakes his wheels. Perseverance brings good fortune.
This is very clear advice to apply the brakes on the subject matter of the query, don’t move forward now. But it’s not clear to me what the perseverance is about: continuing to apply the brakes, or not giving up on a long term goal. Given that things are yet unsettled in 64, I would interpret it as stop for now, maybe don’t give up just yet, see how the situation develops. I don’t think this advises conclusively “hold on to the long term goal”, because it’s too early to say if it is worth hanging on to or not.

64.3:
Legge: state of things not yet remedied, advancing on will lead to evil. But there will be advantage in trying to cross the great stream.
From various other threads on this line. I take it that it means things are still not settled, trying to force your way ahead at this time is counterproductive, but there is a benefit to making a commitment to the long term goal.
Wing says The continuing pursuit of your aim will bring you frustration because it cannot be achieved within your current situation. If you must achieve this particular goal, it would be better to begin anew, with the aid of new friends. Otherwise you may dull your energies and vision with discouragement. But this is a paraphrase, and I don’t believe that this concept is found in translations? The fan Yao, 50.3, seems to suggest a temporary set back. It’s not clear to me where the concept of having to create a new situation comes from.

So I wonder how the advice differs between 64.2 and 64.3.
- Both say that the timing is premature to proceed
- But 64.2 says “keep applying the brakes until you see how things evolve”
- and 64.3 says “it’s still premature to proceed, but hold on to your long term goal”?
I would welcome comments, in particular from translators, line 64.3 seems really ambiguous...
 
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Freedda

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For me, Hex. 64 brings home the notion that change always continues ... even when (or after) we think things are completed.

At first look, lines 64.2 and 64.3 both feel very similar to me: that we should contine, but to do so with some caution: with 64.2, that even with our forward motion, we sometimes need to pause and put on the brakes; and with 64.3, that we should make the journey but watch for the rocks, holes and tideraces while you're 'crossing over'.

But perhaps the biggest difference is where these lead us - e.g. which hexagrams / trigrams these lines 'turn into': moving line 64.2 takes us to 35 - Expansion (with trigram Water becoming Earth); and moving line 64.3 takes us to 50 - The Cauldron (with trigram Water becoming Wind/Wood).

So these two lines - which at first glance might seem very similary - are really offering different advice and quite different 'daos/paths' when taken as but one part of a reading.

Best, D.
 
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Yasmin

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Thank you Freedda for this insight. Very good point regarding 35 vs 50. expansion of awareness vs transformation. Would you like to elaborate on how you would see the advice in the context of 64.2 and 64.3?
 
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Freedda

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Would you like to elaborate on how you would see the advice in the context of 64.2 and 64.3?
Hmm, well after pondering this a bit, I'm not really sure what more to add. The main reason is this: consider that this one hexagram 64 can transform via the moving line into any of the others 63 hexagrams. And lines 64.2 and 63,2 could be part of a great many (but not all) of these transformations.

For example, moving line 64.3 might be part of a response that's 64.1.3.5, or 64.1.2.3, or 64.3.6 .... and so on, and I think in each case the line might be conveying a different message or information, because it has to be considered as part of the overall reading.

Add add to this the fact that any one of these response (and many more) could be about someone's job, or their relationship, or about their creativity, or almost anything else .... so there are just too many variables to cleary know how I 'see' the advice from these two lines - execpt for what I already provided to you.

Does that make sense?

Best, D.
 

Yasmin

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Thank you Freeddah. I was just wondering about those two lines as stand alone, but I will also give it more thought, and look back on my past castings, maybe I will find some insight there... This has been puzzling me for years!
 
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Freedda

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Hello Yasmin. So a few more thoughts ... with the understanding that these are just a few possibilities among many - and that there are many other ideas / directions / perspectives that might fit equally well, or even better - AND it is all situational - the questions, the situation, and ALL the lines, hexgrams, etc that are part of the reading:


For 64.2: to slow down, perhaps to take time to consider your next move - but to consider this in the light of down-to-earth actions/responses, and also consider that your next 'move' might be to be more receptive or open.

For 64.3: to slow down, perhaps to take time to consider your next move - but to also consider a number of options (or directions), and consider how these might fit into the bigger picture, or a longer journey, or towards reaching a larger goal.​

Best, D.
 

Miglix21

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Hello Yasmine. I have had this same doubt on how these two moving lines are different from each other. But there is something I understand about this. The Iching somehow is a sequence, so I see the primary hexagram as an standing situation and the secondary hexagram as something that is affecting or being applied to that situation, some sort of meaning and context. Remember that hexagram 1 follows hexagram 64, so, in both cases I think that it is trying to remind you that you should think carefully how will you take action regarding the object of your inquiry. I see hexagram 35 line 2 as "you need help from someone to cross the river" and hexagram 50 line 3 as "you need a new opportunity to cross the river because you've missed the last opportunity to cross". I think it would be helpful to you to read the statement of the chaning lines too.
 
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Freedda

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so I see the primary hexagram as an standing situation and the secondary hexagram as something that is affecting or being applied to that situation, some sort of meaning and context
Thanks. I see the primary-resulting relationship (or movement) in a number of ways, and I'm certainly not wedded to any of them. Similary to what Miglix21 says, one place I often start is to see the primary as describing the situation, and the resulting as suggesting a possible approach or attitude, but again ... that is only a starting point, and not a fixed way I look at every reading.

Another idea I sometimes use is to see the lines as being about different steps in a procoess, where the first line might be the start, or even embryonic stage; the second line is where the idea/or situation starts to take shape; the third line is where you may be making decisions about how the idea/sitaution will manifest itself; and so forth ....

And thinking of it like this - along with the changing trigrams, and other aspects of the reading - can certainly help provide distinctions between lines whose text might othewise feel similar, as you are finding with 64.2 and 64.3.

But, again, for me much of this depends on the particulars of a reading as I've noted above.

I think it would be helpful to you to read the statement of the chaning lines too.
... But of course.

Best, D.
 
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