'What is the purpose of the Yi-Jing?'

[crystal_blue]

Perhaps it's an ill-formed question, but I've been frustrated the last few days and just decided to see if I could put an end to it by being direct. Anyway, the answer I got:

Hex #47 - Lake over Water

Which I take to mean the purpose of the Yi-Jing is to oppress, deplete or exhaust me. Possibly it's saying I'm repressed. Predictably, perhaps, I forgot to note the changing lines, so I decided to throw another Hex, with the question:

'What is the meaning of the purpose of the Yi-Jing?'

To which it replied:

Hex #15 - Earth over Mountain
- changing to -
Hex #27 - Mountain over Thunder

Which vaguely references nourishing, which is good, I suppose.

 

[ballantrae]

Dear Crystal Blue:
I like the question, and I loved your interpretation. I could have written it myself.

There is a method in business management called the Theory of Constraints. Part of it deals with the problems caused when what is best or makes sense for a department is not the best course of action for the company as a whole. This is the difference between local optima, and global optima.

I like to think that oracles speak about and from the point of view of global optima. They are not that concerned with petty matters, though those same matters may appear very large and important from our human point of view.

In hexagram 47, the top two lines show a yielding line over a firm one, so the Book tells us what is important, or spritually correct, or the global optima as we deal with problems due to our mistreatment of people and things.

If you are wondering about what benefits you or where you are going globally, rather than locally, then life will flow.

Or maybe it's just got it in for you.

Yours,

John Williamson

 

[rosada]

What is the purpose of the I Ching?

47. Oppression (Exhaustion)

IMAGE:
The great man {I Ching} brings about good fortune.
When he has something to say he is not believed.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

What is the MEANING of the purpose?

15. Modesty
IMAGE:
The superior man reduces that which is too much
And reduces that which is too little.
He measures things and makes all things equal.

27. The Corners of The Mouth
The superior man is careful of his words
And temperate in eating and drinking.

I think in the first question the I Ching is saying it creates success or could if people would believe it. Now it is augmenting it's answer by saying it creates success by saying precisely the right thing and that if people would take its words to heart, this would cause the situation to be seen in proper balance and thus this will be success.

So the purpose of the I Ching is to create success by using carefully chosen words to bring balance.

 

[gene]

This is exactly the area of the I Ching I thrive in and enjoy. Every page, every line of the I Ching is talking about itself and how it relates to us. In hexagram 15 it tells us that in order to learn we must humble ourselves, and we must be willing to work with others, especially the Sage (I Ching) who is willing to teach us, in a spirit of cooperation and humility. When that spirit is reached we are able to be taught and the teaching is nourishment to our souls and spirits. Hexagram 15 teaches us about harmony and cooperation. Hexagram 15 is about unity of spirit and equality, about recognizing the importance of others as well as our own. It is in many ways the opposite of hexagram 10 which teaches about the proper part of hierarchy and position. This teaches us as well about our relationship with the sage, but in hexagram 15, it is a master to student, but equally important person in relationship.

The Sages, (I Ching's) teaching is unlimited. (See hexagram 48), also about nourishment. In yielding ourselves, (a yin attribute) to the counsel of the Sage, we become receptive (yin) to its teaching and nourishment.

I hope no one minds if I do just a teeny bit of self promoting here, because I have started writing on my blogsite a little bit about this again, as of the first of the year, and will continue. My blogsite is dedicated in many ways to this very subject.

genesiching.blogspot.com

Gene

 

[ballantrae]

What is the purpose of the I Ching?

47. Oppression (Exhaustion)

IMAGE:
The great man {I Ching} brings about good fortune.
When he has something to say he is not believed.

Somehow, the Image as quoted doesn't seem to be a purpose - I mean, I can see that bringing about good fortune can be a purpose, though there is the idea that it is what the questioner puts into trying to understand the oracle that brings good fortune or allows one to avoid bad fortune. I had the impression that the Book didn't bring good or bad fotune, but only truth.

Then the next line - about not being believed - isn't actually true because members of this and other lists bellieve, though they may not undersand completely. Not forgetting the millions over the centuries who have seen or wanted to see the message. So this doesn't seem to fit with answering a question about a purpose - and why would it not answer the question that was asked.

Yours respectfully,

John Williamson

 

[Trojina]

I never have taken any notice of answers given to someone who is asking a question on behalf of the whole of humanity. An answer is for that person at that particular time IMO.

At this time 47 simply refects your attitude to the oracle at this time, frustrated, depressed etc. I don't think it has further significance than that since you cannot ascertain what the purpose of the oracle is for me or anyone else only yourself. Its obvious the purpose of the Yi, if it has one as such, cannot be to oppress you ??!- so clearly it points back to your own relation to the oracle at this time. Same goes for your second answer -

I don't think you can generalise this question - its about you

 

[willowfox]

Perhaps it's an ill-formed question, but I've been frustrated the last few days and just decided to see if I could put an end to it by being direct. Anyway, the answer I got: Hex #47 -

Hex 47 is about being oppressed, life conspiring against you, frustrated, etc.

The IC has throw your own mood back at you, it is saying my purpose is to show you how you are feeling at the moment so that you can see for yourself what others see, then you can "change" your mood to something calm and more acceptable. The IC is being very direct and personal with you, so you can learn by example, you. The line says to persevere brings good fortune, so change your mood and you will be better for it but it is down to you to achieve those results, not down to any external influence.

 

[crystal_blue]

Thank you all for your replies. In taking the Yi less seriously, I paradoxically seem to be gaining more respect for it.
-

 

[maremaria]

Hi crystal blue,

Here is my take,

47 : There are times that we fell like an enclosed tree , our lake (whatever that means from one ) is dried up. Frustrating moments . We feel that we can do anything to regain happiness, balance etc. Maybe Yi’s purpose is to remind as, that as being a tree we have roots and if in the present times our roots can’t reach the source of our nourishment we have to grow our roots. To go deeper. Hard to believe that in such times isn’t it ?

15 to 27. What makes a relationship alive.? The nourishing exchange, that “give and take” in a balanced proportion (15).

Yi ,like a good friend or a good teacher, wanted to tell you “ I’m here to remind you that your roots is what you have to reach your source of nourishment. Don’t count that I’ll find you a solution. I can only help you find one yourself “

Lise , in her site says beautiful things about 47 and 15.
I quote from there (15)

“Jian1, A mythical bird with one wing and one eye. Two of them could fly: the perfect cooperation.
Who has the gift of qian can fly to higher places than he would ever be able to reach on his own.”

Yi gave you a beautiful answer,imo.

Maria

 

[crystal_blue]

Thank you, maria.
-

All that talk of roots is making me think of the Tree Trigram, or at least, making me question the full range of the Lake Trigram. Incidentally, I asked the Yi some vague question about starting studying the Yi again, and I got:

Hexagram #4 - Mountain over Water

Which, apart from speaking about beginners, is also what I generated the last time I started studying the Yi. Some people never learn.

 

[gene]

Hexagram 47 teaches us that a lot of our frustration comes from within by the way we perceive things. We "stray into a gloomy valley." We do this of our own accord, not because things are truly bad, but because we see them this way. It is a matter of changing perspective. What it is really telling you here is that in spite of the frustration you feel, there is help available, and it is available in the I Ching. In any reading we get, we can first look at what the I Ching is telling us about how we see the world, and believe me, to a very great extent, how we see the world is how we make the world. Hexagram 47 is about inner oppression. It is the dark night of the soul, but all great mystics eventually have to face the dark night, for in doing so, they eventually see themselves as they really are, and not as an illusion. Thus they come out the other end of the tunnel with a much deeper and a much greater vision.

"The man with the scarlet knee bands is coming." Will you recognize him when he gets there? The commentary says "one is oppressed by the commonplaces of life. "Can you relate?" But help is coming. The help is the I Ching itself, and for you, this is its purpose, is to help you see where your own difficulties are coming from, at least for a start.

Gene

 

[gene]

Hexagram four is simply talking about the instruction the I Ching can give you, and if you are ready to listen, it will teach you everything about life: everything. It will help you develop your spiritual life, and that is really what it is all about. Nothing else matters.

Gene

 

[gene]

"When he has something to say he is not believed."

We can, occasionally get this hexagram when we are not really following the advice of the I Ching. It can be saying, you ask me, but then you do not believe me. From top to bottom the I Ching is talking about itself and its relationship to us. It behooves us to garner the message received and mull it over. And in most translations you will never get the more spiritual aspect of it. The only place I know to get that is primarily, Wilhelm Baynes, and secondarily, Ni Hua Ching's interpretation.

Gene

 

[crystal_blue]

Hexagram four is simply talking about the instruction the I Ching can give you, and if you are ready to listen, it will teach you everything about life: everything.

Thanks, gene. I tend to think life is the best teacher. Not that the I Ching isn't a part of life, I suppose.
-

 

[maremaria]

Some people never learn.

You remind myself 6 months ago. It was my first attempt to lean Yi. I couldn’t understand anything. (Still I don’t understand a lot of things)

About 4 : Yes, its about learning and the relationship between a teacher and a student. A friend of mine says that in such a relationship the student at first must accept his/hers teacher. I don’t know if it is the only way but for me it is the only works. Its helps the exchange.

What is frustrating , with those teachers that they don’t give you a clear answer. They expect from you to do that !!!!
But at the end of the day (or many days after) when you find that answer, it feel really good !!!

Wish you good luck to your effort.

Maria

 

[dobro p]

Perhaps it's an ill-formed question, but I've been frustrated the last few days and just decided to see if I could put an end to it by being direct. Anyway, the answer I got:

Hex #47

Which I take to mean the purpose of the Yi-Jing is to oppress, deplete or exhaust me.

No, I don't think so. I think 47 merely states the issue, which is your sense of frustration, of being trapped inside a limited understanding which isn't working for you. The purpose of the I Ching, if it has one, is to reflect your mind and life to you. It's a mirror.

so I decided to throw another Hex, with the question:

'What is the meaning of the purpose of the Yi-Jing?'

To which it replied:

Hex #15 changing to Hex #27

Which vaguely references nourishing, which is good, I suppose.

Nothing vague about it at all, although the emphasis is more on Hex 15 than 27. It's saying something like this: "The purpose of the Yi in your case is to humble your illusions and vain imaginings in a way that truly nourishes you."

I get the 'illusions and vain imaginings' thing from your original sense of frustration, which was imaged in Hex 47, combined with your not understanding the purpose of the Yi.

 

[heylise]

Hex.47 is not only about being oppressed, it is also about how to get out of it. And that is very often a reason for asking.

LiSe

 

[crystal_blue]

You remind myself 6 months ago. It was my first attempt to lean Yi. I couldn’t understand anything. (Still I don’t understand a lot of things)

About 4 : Yes, its about learning and the relationship between a teacher and a student. A friend of mine says that in such a relationship the student at first must accept his/hers teacher. I don’t know if it is the only way but for me it is the only works. Its helps the exchange.

What is frustrating , with those teachers that they don’t give you a clear answer. They expect from you to do that !!!!
But at the end of the day (or many days after) when you find that answer, it feel really good !!!

Wish you good luck to your effort.

Thank you.
-

The purpose of the I Ching, if it has one, is to reflect your mind and life to you. It's a mirror.

I think it's more like a mandala, a focus to quieten the mind, which might be the same thing. Of course, it's spoiled somewhat if one gets caught-up in over-analysis.
-

Hex.47 is not only about being oppressed, it is also about how to get out of it. And that is very often a reason for asking.

I am feeling less anxious today.
-

 

[dobro p]

Hex.47 is not only about being oppressed, it is also about how to get out of it. And that is very often a reason for asking.

LiSe

Yup. That's why the Yi is such a wonderful oracle - it not only images the situation for you, it also gives you useful indications of a way to begin to deal with the situation. One reason I trust its advice so much is because so very often it says the equivalent of 'do nothing'.

Not that the advice in 47 is 'do nothing', mind you.

 

[Trojina]

Yup anything that tells me to do nothing is a big hit with me too

(BTW has everyone seen the hexagram shirt in Hilarys blog )

 

[gene]

Hello Crystal Blue

Yes, life is the best teacher, but the I Ching is life, life in its purest form. And life is the I Ching. Too many people mistake the book as some sort of thing put together by a bunch of smart Chinese who lived a long time ago, and therefore is fallable and makes mistakes, but by and large gives us good answers. This is not correct. The I Ching is eternal, and it was given to men by heaven. It works because it is the intelligence that operates in all creation. By it one can know the mysteries of the universe, but one must be willing to learn.

A student of the I Ching needs no counsellor, for the I Ching itself is the ultimate counsellor and can give us perfect answers to all of life's problems, but one must take it seriously and respectfully, for it is an intelligence and is in no way obligated to give you answers.

Probably more info here than you wanted, but...
Gene

 

[crystal_blue]

Hello Crystal Blue

Yes, life is the best teacher, but the I Ching is life, life in its purest form. And life is the I Ching. Too many people mistake the book as some sort of thing put together by a bunch of smart Chinese who lived a long time ago, and therefore is fallable and makes mistakes, but by and large gives us good answers. This is not correct. The I Ching is eternal, and it was given to men by heaven. It works because it is the intelligence that operates in all creation. By it one can know the mysteries of the universe, but one must be willing to learn.

A student of the I Ching needs no counsellor, for the I Ching itself is the ultimate counsellor and can give us perfect answers to all of life's problems, but one must take it seriously and respectfully, for it is an intelligence and is in no way obligated to give you answers.

Probably more info here than you wanted, but...

Hi, gene. I can't say I agree, but thanks for your view.
-

 

[rosada]

Beautiful, Gene.
I sometimes think we get sidetracked trying to wrench the old Chinese stories into alignment with modern day living, but when we go streight to the lines, that is, to the pattern of how yin follows yang, then we get the the clear answers.

 

[crystal_blue]

...when we go streight to the lines, that is, to the pattern of how yin follows yang, then we get the the clear answers.

Or not, as the case may be.
-

 

[rosada]

Hi Crystal,
I've been thinking alot about your question, What is the purpose of the I Ching? and I'd like to respond to it without particularly trying to frame my answer in terms of 47. Exhaustion.
I have been studying the sequence of the hexagrams trying to disern if there is an over arching theme or lesson or story. What I've come up with is that Hexagram 3, tells us what our purpose is, "The superior man brings order out of confusion" and then the next 45 hexagrams tell us how to go about doing this. If you read just the IMAGES you'll notice again and again there is referance to organizing and weighing and discerning the differances between things. Hexagram 11, Peace seems particularly significant as it seems to discribe what an astrologer does, thus implying that Peace can be actualized if we have the understanding that comes from studying the universe as an astrologer does. Ultimately all this weighing and measuring leads us to 49. Revolution, a hexagram that discribes actually bringing order out of chaos. The next 15 hexagrams, 50 - 64, seem to discribe a man who has seen the future for himself, is not concerned if anyone cares to adopt his techniques (although maybe he ultimately writes his own version of the I Ching in 60!).
goota run.

 

[crystal_blue]

Thanks, rosada. I'm still far away from being able to 'see' all the Hexagrams at once in a meaningful sequence, so what you say is really insightful.
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