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What should I do in my life to prepare for a good death? Hexagram 39 unchanging

bologna_tendra

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I don't ask this because I expect I expect to die soon, but it's simply another way of asking "how can I live a good life?", if we think that the man who has lived a good life is prepared for a good death.

Hexagram 39 says that the south-west furthers - in Wilhelm's analysis he calls direction a region of retreat, to prepare for the overcoming of obstacles. In the context of my question perhaps this means that life itself is a time of preparation for the obstacle one needs to breach - spiritually - at the point of death (the time horizon of the question is my entire life)? That retreat means retreat into myself toward spiritual concerns "the superior man turns his attention to himself and moulds his character" away from the getting and grabbing of material concerns, ego etc?

Is there more in this I am missing, or misunderstanding? There is also talk in Wilhelm of putting myself under the leadership of another man equal to the situation?
 

bologna_tendra

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Also as some context, in recent readings I have 39 a few times. In July I asked what is my unconscious trying to communicate to me through some dreams of an old love (it was these dreams that drove me in the first place to the I Ching) and got 39 as the future hexagram; in August, in connection to the same thing I asked how can I get closer to the lady of my soul, and got 39.1. And now 39 unchanging.
 

Olga Super Star

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It can’t be saying you can’t live a good life I guess 🤔

Let’s wait for some experts!
 

Olga Super Star

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I mean that Yi can’t be saying that. The message must be a different one.

[Syntax improved]
 
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Olga Super Star

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Oh I probably have the key!

You must accept difficulties and responsibilities.

'Above the mountain is the stream. Limping.
Noble Bologna turns her self around to renew her de.'
 

rosada

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Interesting question!

But I wonder if it is the right one? The Image for 39. Limping says "A noble one turns himself around to renew his character." Could this be suggesting you turn the question around and instead specifically ask your implied question, "How can I live a good life"? Might be worth a toss.

Meanwhile, assuming Limping really is the answer for "How to prepare for a good death?" the advice seems pretty straight forward:

Fruitful in the Southwest.
Not fruitful in the Northeast.

The Southwest is considered to be the direction for supportive friends while the Northeast is the direction for isolation and solitary efforts. So to prepare for a good death aim towards being where you have supportive friends.

Fruitful to see great people.
Constancy good fortune.

Find role models. Perhaps you have witnessed people who's way of passing you admire. My parents and husband all left their affairs in good order - "constantly" - up dating wills and legal documents and making sure they were all filed where they could be easily found. It was a huge blessing for us - even though it was probably a daunting chore for them - like Yu the Great's struggle to get his work done - and definitely an example I strive to follow.

May you live long and prosper!
 
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radiofreewill

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Hi bologna_tendra,

"What should I do in life to prepare for a good death?"
39uc ~ Stay out of Trouble to Liberate.

Another name for 39 (Mountains and Rivers) is Trouble, and if you turnaround 39, then you get 40 (Walk on Water) Liberation:

4TrueCompassion.jpg

That's how a noble one renews character.

Good Luck!
 
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Freedda

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... another way of asking "how can I live a good life?" Hexagram 39 UC
This is what I'm focusing on with my response; there's a lot to be gleaned here ....

Hexagram text for 39:

Favorable west and south,
unfavorable east and north.
Favorable for seeing great men.
Augury (omen, reading is) auspicious.

For the compass 'points / directions', this is advising that a good life is one where you make choices, make decisions, pick a direction - as to what you want to do and where you want your life to go. I also see the particular west-south 'favorable' direction as being about following the sun, which moves westward across the sky, and shines most brightly on the south side of a home, or mountain ....

So it's about making choices based on clarity and including/thinking of others in those decisions - the Sun's fire co-joins or adheres with it's fuel to keep burning; in the same way that people join together to create a good life.

'Favorable seeing great men (people)': might be about making learning a part of your 'good life', and perhaps seeking out those whom can show you or teach you what you want or need to learn. It might be a guru or a priest, or a woodshop teacher, or even someone whose life you see as an example of a 'good life'.

Looking at the hexagram and trigram imagery: with 39, you have water covering (flooding) the mountain pass. If you were headed in that direction, you would have to take a detour or another unplanned route to get to your destination. So the good life includes being flexible and being open to new ways of doing things - even detours, unknown directions - to get where you want to go.

Hmm, have I left anything out? Or offered too much?

All the best ...
 
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bologna_tendra

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The Southwest is considered to be the direction for supportive friends while the Northeast is the direction for isolation and solitary efforts.
This makes me a little apprehensive because I am just about to move far away from my home country to a place where I have no friends, and it may be my life is isolated.

It may be though that this move now is part of the possible detours Freedda refers to, and so this move itself constitutes south-west? Or it could be this new place turns out to be the north-east or the south-west, just depending how I approach it and my actions, my choices and if I choose and act well there, and make some good friends?

So it's about making choices based on clarity and including/thinking of others in those decisions - the Sun's fire co-joins or adheres with it's fuel to keep burning; in the same way that people join together to create a good life.
It seems to be saying increased consciousness but in conjunction with others, not alone, joining my consciousness with others.
 
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Freedda

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It seems to be saying increased consciousness but in conjunction with others, not alone, joining my consciousness with others.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'increased consciousness'. As I said, my take on the Yi's response is that the 'good life':

* is one where you make choices, ... pick a direction - as to what you want to do and where you want your life to go.

* is about making choices based on clarity and including/thinking of others in those decisions

* is about making learning a part of your 'good life'

* and it includes being flexible and being open to new ways of doing things - even detours, unknown directions - to get where you want to go.​

And if you think 'increased consciousness' fits as part of that ....

d ....
 
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Trojina

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I don't ask this because I expect I expect to die soon, but it's simply another way of asking "how can I live a good life?", if we think that the man who has lived a good life is prepared for a good death.




Actually how does what kind of life you have have anything to do with a 'good death' ? No one can affect how they die by the kind of life they lead.

Who dies in pain and anguish and who doesn't has sod all to do with how they lived.

I don't think the question is clear enough to get any kind of meaningful answer

I suppose it all hinges on the self satisfied belief that ' a man who lived a good life is prepared for a good death'. That's clearly rubbish, Jesus was crucified, many good people die very bad deaths in pain or in suffering. So what kind of world view imagines a 'good person' has a 'good death'. It's ugly, it's like saying people who really suffer when dying weren't good people.


You'll never know if you are a good person or not so you can hardly prepare yourself for how you die as that is out of your control. If by death you mean after death then again it isn't something you have any control over at all. You could be be thinking you are leading a 'good' life but not be at all. It's a bit like trying to get enough brownie points to get into heaven, it doesn't work like that.

Come to think of it perhaps that's what the answer is saying, you are heading in the wrong direction with this question/this way of thinking. Turnaround from it, don't pursue it this way, it leads you into hardship. I really don't think it's advice to accept difficulties or anything like that.
 
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Freedda

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I don't think the question is clear enough to get any kind of meaningful answer
I admit, I found that the "What should I do in my life to prepare for a good death?" question has a certain Ra's al Ghul (Batman Begins) / Kwai Chang Caine (Kung Fu) 'quality' to it. And that I had to 'interpret' the question - or decided for myself what the question is - before I could interpret the Yi's response.

But in doing this - and in spite of this - the Yi gave a meaningful response.

However, I think only the asker / querent can say how meaningful mine or anyone's answer is to them. And if they do find the response or responses as we interpreted them useful or meaningful, then that happened despite there not being a 'clear (or clearer) question'.

Besides, I don't think there's any way of knowing if a 'clearer' question would have generated a clearer response or not.

And this 'need for a clear(er) question' certainly sounds like a topic for the Exploring Divination section, if anyone (besides me) would care to start a thread about it. (Assuming no one has ever asked about this before.)

All the best ....
 
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Trojina

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I meant the question isn't meaningful enough to me for me to try to interpret an answer, the question makes no sense to me. Although in the end I did have an interpretation.


I believe people have to ask what comes to them naturally, if they ask someone else's idea of a decent question it won't feel the same. One has to ask what one wants to ask although there still is benefit in considering the question. Hilary has a lot of stuff on asking questions both in the free forum, such as relationship sticky, her blogs plus all the Foundations Course stuff. Over the last 20 years for sure I'd think the question of questions will have come up in Exploring Divination many times but then most topics will have, there must be at least 90 on multiple moving lines but that's no reason not to start a new thread if you want to. Different times different threads different people.
 
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Freedda

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I meant the question isn't meaningful enough to me for me to try to interpret an answer, the question makes no sense to me. Although in the end I did have an interpretation.
So, it wasn't meaningful enough for you to try to interpret it, but you then did interpret it ....

I believe people have to ask what comes to them naturally, if they ask someone else's idea of a decent question it won't feel the same.
Yep, agreed. And I assume that one's person natural and meaningful question may not always appear so to someone else. And if I don't know what someone's question means or is about, I can always ask - or just not interpret it - but maybe I shouldn't waste everyone's time here by re-stating the obvious.
 

rosada

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Crossed paths with the last two postings...

Agreeing with Freedda here, only the querent can know if an answer is meaningful. Bologna notes she is asking her question just as she is preparing to move. Moving certainly can feel like a death and so it seems this hexagram with its reference to the Northeast and isolation may have more personal significance for her than is first apparent to the rest of us. As advice for how to handle this transition 39uc maybe counseling that it need not be a hard lonely path if one "embodies the qualities of mountain and stream, joins the firmness of his inner resolve with fluid commitment, renewing strength of character." Perhaps this is encouragement to be very clear why you want to make this move, what your goals are, and to actively do things that will renew your enthusiasm for the change, such as making new friends and keeping in touch with the old.

Also it may be worth noting the question was “How do I PREPARE for a good death,” not “How do I guarantee one?” I suggest that while we cannot control whether we die in our sleep or get hit with a meteor, we can take steps to ensure peace of mind which certainly is a key hallmark of a "good death".
 

Trojina

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So, it wasn't meaningful enough for you to try to interpret it, but you then did interpret it ....


That's right. The clue is in the following where I say

Come to think of it perhaps that's what the answer is saying,

Get it ? After I had written my thoughts an interpretation occurred to me. Seems you are under the illusion it's your business and that I have to justify myself to you. I wrote what I wrote for the original poster not you. I shared my thoughts. I don't give a damn what you think about that. Indeed I am not interested in what you think of any of my posts at all so perhaps you could just stop reading them. I think you suggested the other day I stop reading posts I didn't like well why not take your own advice !

Yep, agreed. And I assume that one's person natural and meaningful question may not always appear so to someone else. And if I don't know what someone's question means or is about, I can always ask - or just not interpret it - but maybe I shouldn't waste everyone's time here by re-stating the obvious.

I don't think given how often you question people's questions on here you are in any position to lecture me or assume the moral high ground. I don't want your feedback on my posts, any of my posts I hope that's clear enough and I'm more than happy to return the favour.

Goodbye
 
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Trojina

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Agreeing with Freedda here, only the querent can know if an answer is meaningful. Bologna notes she is asking her question just as she is preparing to move.

So you don't understand my post either. I wrote this

I don't think the question is clear enough to get any kind of meaningful answer

That's my opinion and I write it as such. I say 'I don't think....' okay so it's what I think rather than a statement about whether the answer is meaningful.




Also it may be worth noting the question was “How do I PREPARE for a good death,” not “How do I guarantee one?” I suggest that while we cannot control whether we die in our sleep or get hit with a meteor, we can take steps to ensure peace of mind which certainly is a key hallmark of a "good death".


No the question was not "How do I prepare for a good death" the question was in the title


What should I do in my life to prepare for a good death? Hexagram 39 unchanging

So you can see the question isn't "how do I prepare for a good death ?" but 'what should I do in life to prepare for a good death ?' that's really very different.

If someone were asking how to prepare for a good death one might think they were dying and wanted to make the process as smooth as possible. This isn't that, it's asking what to do in life to prepare for a good death where the subject is not apparently expecting death imminently. That makes no sense to me, what kind of thing could anyone do to prepare for a good death so to try to make 39uc fit a question like that is not feasible although I concluded it could well mean that this way of thinking isn't the way to proceed.
 

Trojina

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Bologna notes she is asking her question just as she is preparing to move. Moving certainly can feel like a death and so it seems this hexagram with its reference to the Northeast and isolation may have more personal significance for her than is first apparent to the rest of us. As advice for how to handle this transition 39uc maybe counseling that it need not be a hard lonely path if one "embodies the qualities of mountain and stream,


I have the idea Bologna is male. The question isn't about moving but what to do in life to prepare for a good death.
 
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Freedda

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... to lecture me or assume the moral high ground. I don't want your feedback on my posts ....
I claim no moral high ground, nor do I have an ever-growing collection of peas under my mattress. But okay then, we'll agree not to provide feedback on each other's post (except if it's positive?)

I can live with that.

And should we then also promise that we won't lecture nor provide feedback to anyone else on this site? Maybe Hilary should write that into the rules for posting.
 
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rosada

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This is such an interesting topic I think it would be a shame to have to shut down feedback just because we couldn't maintain civility. I mean, we're only talking about death, it's not like we're discussing Trump for God's sake! Anyway, the question is indeed phrased in a way that leaves it open to wide interpretation. Maybe Bologna will come back and let us know a bit more about what inspired it - and whether you're a male or a female too, btw.
 

Lavalamp

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"How can I prepare for death? (live a good life?)
This is a question that asks for advice, not fortune telling.

39 "Troubles" or "Obstructions" unchanging. The context here, the Yi is talking about your troubles in life.
It is how you deal with your troubles/problems that creates a good life, and prepares you for death and for your next life.
This is part of it, if not all of it.

The Judgment in 39 offers 3 bits of advice.
1. The southwest furthers. You need a support group, friends and folks that have your back.
Your competitors and adversaries in the Northeast are not going to be of much help in your times of trouble.
2. It furthers one to see the great man. You need wise advisors and trusted counsel in life.
3. Perseverance brings good fortune. You have to keep going!

The Image says when you encounter troubles or adversity, stop, examine yourself, and see the Great Man
"Wilhelm/Baynes: "...Thus the superior man turns his attention to himself and molds his character."
"Confucius/Legge:Impasse means difficulty, with the trigram of Peril up ahead. It is a wise man who can stop his advance at the first sign of danger. Advantage in the southwest means that the dynamic line has advanced to the central position. In the northeast, however, progress is halted. Seeing the great man insures progress and success."
This is about checking yourself. Examine yourself and your assumptions in detail. Look at the flip side of the coin. Am I wrong? And then check yourself and what you are doing with your great people (usually not too many advisors!) for guidance.

- LL
 
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bologna_tendra

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Thank you lavalamp for your sensitive reading of the question, and sage counsel. There is much to work with here.
 

my_key

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What should I do in my life to prepare for a good death? Hexagram 39 unchanging

....
another way of asking "how can I live a good life?", if we think that the man who has lived a good life is prepared for a good death.

The way to lead a good life is expounded in the writings of many cultures e.g. the Tao te Ching, the Bagadvad Gita, the Bible etc. So the teachings are there for all to read and follow how to live their life as best suits them. For Buddhists, how to live a good life is through the auspice of the Eightfold Path whose practices right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right meditation cultivate a life with less attachment to the perspectives that cause human suffering. They also hold the view that the attitude taken into the last breath of life is the main component contributing towards the quality of our death.

There are many other perspectives around this good life / good death balance. Native Americans and, I think, the Vikings had a credo of "Today is a good day to die." Meaning they have lived a life that is full, lived it in a manner of which thay can be proud and can face death today without regret or fear.

For me there is no vagueness around the question asked.

To prepare for a good death bologna tendra needs to live life where s/he engages with the hardships presented (39- Judgement). At all times endeavour to remain stedfast and upright, and when difficulties are encountered look inside for the great man within his / her self to cultivate the virtue necessary to redress the matter (39- Image).

Hardships (39) are encountered between the space of Hex 38, where we do not see eye to eye with the world and are advised to negotiate a common ground with the things around us and the relief of Hex 40 where the noble one pardons mistakes and deals gently with his own and others' transgressions.

The motivational force behind Hex 38 is Hex 64, Not Yet Fulfilled.

Life has a tendancy to make us feel that we are limping, struggling and the more we can reduce that limp the more we can step into death and what is beyond feeling as fulfilled as we can.

Maybe it is something like this


...and of course it may be nothing like any of this at all.
 
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bologna_tendra

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Thank you my_key for your insight. It is interesting that you included this video (I read that it's a real rotten tomato 🍅!) as when I was considering the question more I was thinking of some people that I consider to have had a good death, and one of them was Constantine XI. Of course Jesus is perhaps the supreme example, though there is Socrates, Bonhoeffer and so many more that touch us with a sense of elevation due to the fact they were commensurate with the moment of their death.
 

Lavalamp

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. It is interesting that you included this video (I read that it's a real rotten tomato

I love that movie, "The Thirteenth Warrior."
It's sort of an Arabian Nights tale, except they're Norweigan Vikings.

- LL
 
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Freedda

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.... another way of asking "how can I live a good life?", if we think that the man who has lived a good life is prepared for a good death.
Going back to your original query here, it seems you are making a big assumption, that may or may not be true:

that the man who has lived a good life we assume is prepared for a good death.

And for proof, you are now relying on a Hollywood film, the 13th Warrior, to make this assumption seem true?

I dug a bit deeper into the Yi to explore the answer to this question, and I found in the Dazhuan, or Great Treatise (Wings 5 and 6) this passage; from the original, uncut version of the 13th Warrior - Antonio Banderas, as Ahmad ibn Fadlan, as he gets ready to face his death at the hands of evil people, whom wardrobe and makeup have made to look especially hideous:

"I didn't get paid nearly enough to be saying this stupid crap in this loser movie!"

And in real life Omar Sharif (Melchisidek) said:

"After my small role in The 13th Warrior, I said to myself, 'Let us stop this nonsense' .... Bad pictures are very humiliating, I was really sick. It is terrifying to have to do the dialogue from bad scripts, to face a director who does not know what he is doing, in a film so bad that it is not even worth exploring."

So hmm, maybe that's closer to what the Yi is saying here.
 

Matali

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Also as some context, in recent readings I have 39 a few times. In July I asked what is my unconscious trying to communicate to me through some dreams of an old love (it was these dreams that drove me in the first place to the I Ching) and got 39 as the future hexagram; in August, in connection to the same thing I asked how can I get closer to the lady of my soul, and got 39.1. And now 39 unchanging.
Hello ! What appeals to me are the 39 for the question of your former love....! Do you know the obstacle that separated you from that person? I wonder if these 39 all fit that...
 

Lavalamp

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this passage; from the original, uncut version of the 13th Warrior - Antonio Banderas, as Ahmad ibn Fadlan, as he gets ready to face his death at the hands of evil people, whom wardrobe and makeup have made to look especially hideous:

"I didn't get paid nearly enough to be saying this stupid crap in this loser movie!"

"Uncut version?" You actually *made up a quote* because you didn't like the movie? Jeez.

And in real life Omar Sharif (Melchisidek) said:

"After my small role in The 13th Warrior, I said to myself, 'Let us stop this nonsense' .... Bad pictures are very humiliating, I was really sick. It is terrifying to have to do the dialogue from bad scripts, to face a director who does not know what he is doing, in a film so bad that it is not even worth exploring."

Here, you edited Sharif's quote and it lacks context. He was explaining about his decision to stop working. and speaking about accepting roles in general simply to make money, not the outcome of or the Thirteenth Warrior per se.

"I said to myself "Let us stop this nonsense, these meal-tickets that we do because it pays well. Unless I find a stupendous film that I love. And that makes me want to leave home to do, I will stop."

He was also doing a presser on his new movie "Monsieur Ibrahim", hoping it would do better, and wanting to distance himself from the bad reviews on his last movie. "I didn't expect to find any picture or role that could make me want to start working again. It is not easy to find something that you want to play when you are old, with an indefinable accent and a rather oriental appearance.

The Thirteenth Warrior's main problem was Director John McTiernan and the book's author Michael Crichton had serious artistic differences, with Crichton rewriting and reshooting many scenes. By the time the differences were worked past Disney had written it off financially and it was released without promotion.
I like the story, the actors, the atmosphere... I think it deserved a better reception - certainly not what is quite arguably unfair snark. I didn't think it was stupid at all.

- LL
 

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