What should I know about being mentored by X? Hex 21 unchanging

[jecemis]

I posted recently about trying to decide on whether to purchase a boat. Part of the appeal is that the owner has agreed to train/teach me everything about the boat he built, how to operate it, maintain it, etc. This person is impressively accomplished at what I hope to do in the near future, having written a couple books and magazine articles on the subject--not to mention he built an impressive vessel from a bare hull.


So I consult the IC on what to expect if I go through with it and received 21 with no changing lines.


I found this quote from Sorrells posted here 5 years ago:

"Intention without reservation is needed to overcome obstacles in your path."

As well as this one from Hilary:

There's a time for reaching the truth, and a time for expressing it. Biting through, you take the situation into yourself, 'chew it over' and digest it; Beauty will bring out it's pure plain essence.

And this one resonated the most, especially the last two sentences. It's a quote from Wing posted by Trojina:

There is an inner storm that has been raging for some time around the object of your inquiry. The lower trigram, CHEN, movement, is struggling upward, sparking brilliance in the upper trigram LI. This dramatic coming together of the two strong elemental forces creates a tremendous cacaphony and, eventually, release, just as thunder and lightning bring the release of static tensions before a storm. Without changing lines, a radical REFORM is necessary in your life. It will cause spectacular reaction but will release the tensions that hold you back from your aims.

Something is certainly holding me back in my life presently. I've become very indolent, struggling to accomplish most goals. Hence I'm interrupting 21 as radical reform of my mindstate/behavoir is necessary if I'm going to get anything out of this relationship with the potential mentor. I think it's telling me to stop coping and start forcing myself to work harder to achieve something meaningful. Biting through in the instance may mean working hard in face of my bad habits that have made me soft and lazy.


Any thoughts? Am I on the right track?


Thanks for reading.

 

[moss elk]

So I consult the IC on what to expect if I go through with it and received 21 with no changing lines.

 

[jecemis]

Hi. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take away from your picture. I'm not finding it funny. This is a serious matter for me.


With regard to your suggestion, I've previously felt compelled to donate here on behalf of a community member who took their time to help me understand how hexagrams relate to the questions I posed. If that happens again, I'll donate again.

 

[Trojina]

Hi. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take away from your picture. I'm not finding it funny. This is a serious matter for me.


With regard to your suggestion, I've previously felt compelled to donate here on behalf of a community member who took their time to help me understand how hexagrams relate to the questions I posed. If that happens again, I'll donate again.

Hang on there's a problem here. You have the idea if a person voluntarily helps you here in a way you like you will donate to the site ?

​

People who take the time to voluntarily respond here do not represent this website in any way they are just giving their views independently. It is a concern to me if you have the idea that you donate because you like how people help you

I find that really off putting since I don't post here to get money either for this site or for myself !


Maybe Moss Elk's signature, although well meant, gives the wrong idea ? There should not be any shades of people trying to be pleasing so that donations are made. That warps the whole thing and only augments the dynamic here of a few people 'serving' many 'querent's which isn't what Shared readings is meant to be at all.




You do not donate because of your preference for individual members answers you are donating for the site to be here at all. You are giving money to Hilary for her to run the site not us or what we do. Members are meant to be helping each other but unfortunately many get hooked on spoon feeding and don't even try to interpret for themselves, as you have probably seen, so if there's also an idea floating about that people pay for answers they like...well that just contributes to the false idea that there are customers paying by donation for what they like.


I get the idea of the signature Moss Elk but it could be misleading ?


adding @hilary; so she can see this weird dynamic that just happened

 

[Trojina]

...and to top it I see you are almost one of those people who just take answers and walk off without even managing to use the 'thanks' button

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-4-gt-60-contacting-owner&p=240630#post240630


feedback ?



of course if answers are not to your taste you can always get a full refund.


Of course you do usually go back to your threads, I see that, you just obviously didn't think Rosada's answer worth thanking...or something ???

 

[jecemis]

Hi Trojina. I've enjoyed a number of your posts. I'm sorry I don't see the problem with donating after I've found someones advice helpful. The motivation is to help the site so others can continue using it.

Also apologies for not updating that post. I've been called out before for not updating, which led me to updating old posts. I do feel it's important to share results so we can further our consensus of meaning. Unfortunately there's not much to update the one you've linked to. I didn't feel there was anything productive I could do in that situation and just moved on. I will think about that post, however, and I'll update it soon.

 

[moss elk]

Hi. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take away from your picture. I'm not finding it funny. This is a serious matter for me.

Hi,
There is the expression,
a picture is worth a thousand words,
but it didn't seem to work this time.
I wasn't mocking you.
Sorry if I gave that impression.

I chose a picture of a stern teacher that may strike the students hand with a ruler, because 21 is about Justice/Punishment/Lawsuits.
I went as simple as possible because most of the quotes you posted about 21 might not apply here, meaning you may be making it more complicated than necessary, biting too deep (like 21.2).

The text at the end is my forum signature.
I chose it as a way to support Hilary and this website. (I earn no money from Clarity, I volunteer and am here to learn and share, like everyone else. )
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Also, the fact that the teacher is an expert makes me think the lessons could be a little stern, since many experts often get frustrated by beginners, no matter the discipline in question. Or maybe he'll try to get fresh and you'd 21 him.

 

[Trojina]

Hi Trojina. I've enjoyed a number of your posts. I'm sorry I don't see the problem with donating after I've found someones advice helpful. The motivation is to help the site so others can continue using it.

It's a great motivation for sure I just think what you said earlier here....

With regard to your suggestion, I've previously felt compelled to donate here on behalf of a community member who took their time to help me understand how hexagrams relate to the questions I posed. If that happens again, I'll donate again.

…. has implications, not to do with you personally, but implications generally for how people use SR. If others think the same way as you did it places respondents almost in the role of earning money for the site and that has implications. There's a donations button there but because Moss puts the suggestion in his signature and then you pretty much imply you won't donate to answers like he gave, well I find it hard to articulate, but it's not a good dynamic.


It's not your problem though but something for Hilary and the mods to think about and maybe not even the mods because it's actually a question of the whole culture of the place which is another thing altogether....

 

[Trojina]

I posted recently about trying to decide on whether to purchase a boat. Part of the appeal is that the owner has agreed to train/teach me everything about the boat he built, how to operate it, maintain it, etc. This person is impressively accomplished at what I hope to do in the near future, having written a couple books and magazine articles on the subject--not to mention he built an impressive vessel from a bare hull.


So I consult the IC on what to expect if I go through with it and received 21 with no changing lines.

I think how I would take this would depend on the nature of what I wanted to learn and in what way. If I were to get this answer for a dance course for example I might think again because I may want to dance to loosen up and relax rather than learn exact steps and timings etc.

However what you propose to learn about is very precise isn't it and so 21uc may be quite a good augury for learning from this person. I think you have to consider how well you take to being managed and 'trained' in quite a particular, sharp edged kind of a way ?


But think about learning to drive and choosing a teacher. Now if I cast 59uc for a driving teacher I don't think that would be a brilliant augury. 21uc might be a really good answer because when you learn to drive there are hard edges, biting edges to what you have to learn. When you learn to drive there are certain 'hard' skills, facts, things you have to 'master' in a way, there's no room for free self expression (you can do that after the test ). I think learning with this person will be a precise kind of hard edged experience just like it is when learning to drive. 21 is to do with rules also and keeping to them so a lot of what you learn will be non negotiable as in driving.


In driving there's a line in the middle of the road and it's a hard fact/rule I cannot cross it except at certain times.

Something is certainly holding me back in my life presently. I've become very indolent, struggling to accomplish most goals. Hence I'm interrupting 21 as radical reform of my mindstate/behavoir is necessary if I'm going to get anything out of this relationship with the potential mentor. I think it's telling me to stop coping and start forcing myself to work harder to achieve something meaningful. Biting through in the instance may mean working hard in face of my bad habits that have made me soft and lazy.

You may find it onerous or you may find it a very clear concise, to the point, learning experience. It does seem as though it requires a certain hard edge in you to go through with it. You maybe need to ask yourself how well you cope personally with being instructed in that very precise hard edged, disciplined kind of a way ? I feel this teacher will be very effective, no time wasting, no lack of clarity, no shilly shallying and I also think you won't get away with doing anything not quite right. But I don't think this has to mean the person is unnecessarily pernickety it's just the nature of the work has to be precise because you are in charge of a large chunk of metal or whatever it is....so like in a car you have to be awake and clear and sharp about what you are doing.

Any thoughts? Am I on the right track?

Yes though you seem to have taken the answer more as a judgement on yourself than what the actual learning experience will be like. But the fact that you have taken it from this angle, that Wing's commentary jumped out at you, says to me that this must be the nub of what this reading is about.


It's likely both answering how this mentor and the learning experience will be and also addressing how this impacts on your own mental discipline. So yes I think you are on the right track.

 

[jecemis]

Also, the fact that the teacher is an expert makes me think the lessons could be a little stern, since many experts often get frustrated by beginners, no matter the discipline in question. Or maybe he'll try to get fresh and you'd 21 him.

The stern teacher hadn't even occurred to me when I was meditating on 21. I've been guilty of being self absorbed with this matter and the pic went right over my head. Thank you for taking the time to clarify. I've actually experienced this before with the first person who mentored me w/ my current boat. So this is a great point for me to consider. I think folks teaching sailing are especially prone to being stern, even mean about the way the go about teaching. I think part of the reason is because that's how they were taught. A lot of these scenarios they're hoping to prepare you for can actually be a life or death situation, so they tend to be very serious especially when it comes to teaching safety.

Also I feel a bit foolish, I was reading this thread on my phone and didn't realize that bit about donating was your signature. I thought it was directed directly at me (again I'm guilty of being self absorbed.

Anyway, thank you again for taking the time to clarify what you meant.

 

[Trojina]

crossed posts just addressed your query

 

[jecemis]

You may find it onerous or you may find it a very clear concise, to the point, learning experience. It does seem as though it requires a certain hard edge in you to go through with it. You maybe need to ask yourself how well you cope personally with being instructed in that very precise hard edged, disciplined kind of a way ? I feel this teacher will be very effective, no time wasting, no lack of clarity, no shilly shallying and I also think you won't get away with doing anything not quite right. But I don't think this has to mean the person is unnecessarily pernickety it's just the nature of the work has to be precise because you are in charge of a large chunk of metal or whatever it is....so like in a car you have to be awake and clear and sharp about what you are doing.

I was stuck thinking of terms of myself, taking the reading entirely as personal judgement. I like how you compared it to being taught to drive, how there are hard edges, biting edges that have to be understood for one's own safety. I believe this is even more so the case with operating a vessel offshore hundreds of miles away from anyone.

This is something I need to mediate/mull over. I've been too sensitive in the past with instructors who've had a serious, stern teaching style which would lead me to freezing up in away that I didn't fully absorb the material until much later on my own.

 

[hilary]

It's a great motivation for sure I just think what you said earlier here....



…. has implications, not to do with you personally, but implications generally for how people use SR. If others think the same way as you did it places respondents almost in the role of earning money for the site and that has implications. There's a donations button there but because Moss puts the suggestion in his signature and then you pretty much imply you won't donate to answers like he gave, well I find it hard to articulate, but it's not a good dynamic.


It's not your problem though but something for Hilary and the mods to think about and maybe not even the mods because it's actually a question of the whole culture of the place which is another thing altogether....

I agree that an 'I'll donate if I like your answers' dynamic would be bizarre, but I don’t there's much danger of that. Just a misunderstanding because on this occasion the signature was mistaken for the body of the post.

Thank you Jecemis for donating, Moss Elk for signature and Trojina for clarifying (and doing readings here for donkey's years).