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What should one do to get the clearest possible answers? 37.2.3-61

moss elk

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Hi Rosada.

I must ask, was there some particular subject matter that you were dealing with that prompted you to ask this question?
 

foxx777

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Frustrated with vague answers, I asked the I Ching what one ought to do to get clear responses.
I received 37.2.3-61.
Well what ever it is obviously I’m not doing it cause this answer makes no sense to me at all.
This has been my own frustration much of the time. There have been times when Yi gives very strong and clear and relevant messages; other times it’s vague and messy and off the mark.
That said, I think 37.2.3>61 may actually be a sharp response:oops:
Line 2: Not following whims, tending to food. Perhaps framing questions more soberly, tending to the essentials, and not flights of fancy?
Line 3: Sometimes stern, other times giggling. Again be sober in your castings, dispassionate, and conservative?
61: Inner Trust....in Yi?:unsure:
 

marybluesky

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Line 2: Not following whims, tending to food. Perhaps framing questions more soberly, tending to the essentials, and not flights of fancy?
Line 3: Sometimes stern, other times giggling. Again be sober in your castings, dispassionate, and conservative?
61: Inner Trust....in Yi?:unsure:
Ironic! sounds like: "be familiar with the I Ching & focus on main material. Sometimes it's to the point and sometimes mocks you. Trust it anyway."😁
 

my_key

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Frustrated with vague answers, I asked the I Ching what one ought to do to get clear responses.
I received 37.2.3-61.
Well what ever it is obviously I’m not doing it cause this answer makes no sense to me at all.

Here's one way of looking at it.

hex 37: dwelling people means being on the inside
hex 61 : centring and connecting means it becomes trustworthy (able to be relied on as honest or truthful.)

To get clear responses one ought to start from a place where one cares for and nurtures their relationship with Yi (37).
Start with how one builds ones connections (37.2). Spend time sitting by the hearth fire (feeling the warmth and meeting with the dancing flames). Then when you and the divination are at the centre together, allow the warmth to flow through you and open yourself to the process of the question, the divination and the answer. Have no predetermined ideas or conceptions of what to expect from each of the stages or the outcomes.
Continue mingling with the divination process and accept the offering in the manner in which it is given. Remain sincere and honest. Gently approach an understanding, engage with it knowing that each small undertaking makes your house more beautiful (37.5).
When you have gained an understanding then trust in what has been passed through you and to you. As far as you are able bring your life and your world into accord with what you have been given (61) .

Or maybe it's nothing like that.

good luck
 

Trojina

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Frustrated with vague answers, I asked the I Ching what one ought to do to get clear responses.
I received 37.2.3-61.
Well what ever it is obviously I’m not doing it cause this answer makes no sense to me at all.


That you are most sincere (61), do not go outside your own realm of responsibility, ie ask about others and things you have no business with and so on (37.2) and do not play with the I Ching like it's a little fortune telling tool you can fit in your pocket, take it seriously (37.3).

When people say the I Ching ought to have given another answer I just wonder whether they think Yi should fit them rather than they expand their awareness to allow the answer to permeate them.


It's not a little tool for our convenience, it doesn't even always answer the exact question we put and we do need to realise first and foremost to take the answers as for ourselves (37.2). Our own personal path, growth, way in life, home in life, our sphere, is what we need to sincerely bring to Yi, things that truly matter.

37.2 also makes me think people hurry here too quickly with answers and they would understand far better by themselves. Alone in the home in the woman's realm (37.2) with a focus on all the stuff that matters most, with sincerity that's how answers can be best understood. No that it is wrong to share readings but it can be counterproductive if it's the first thing you do when you cast.
 
L

legume

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interesting, 37.2 made me think about food intake and how in TCM spleen is connected to intellect, how we process, remember and link information. maybe it's about the inner attitude, first things first, need to set some discipline (37.3) and to take care of oneself - that can put one in a more receptive mindset.

then also i wonder if maybe it's to do with the fact the answer's already within you (37.2 - She must attend within to the food.) so through looking inwards and setting discipline you'll be able to face the 61, inner truth?

edit: another thought, when one is well fed (not right after food though as then thinking is still a bit sluggish) it becomes easier to trust the "gut feeling". the discipline could then also be about training one's intuition?
 
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Liselle

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I like what My_key said about line 2 - "stay in the centre and cook" - sit by the fire and take time to thoroughly "cook" the reading, stir it around good, maybe add some spices to taste (context hexagrams)?

37.3 - reading Hilary's commentary, I wonder if this isn't about being playful and frivolous, per se - I think sometimes it helps to be a bit playful with readings - as much as what Hilary says about "shying away from her power"? Maybe it's more about knowing (61?) that you can do this, you can successfully figure it out?
 

my_key

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I like what My_key said about line 2 - "stay in the centre and cook" - sit by the fire and take time to thoroughly "cook" the reading, stir it around good, maybe add some spices to taste (context hexagrams)?

Hi Liselle
Line 2 was for me more about connecting fully at the start of the process and maintaining throughout. Bathe in the warmth and watch the flames as they dance around the divination process rather than focusing on the pot on the fire and it's contents . Cooking the reading implies for me some conscious action - a possible interference. Yes, it's ok to browse at a few cook books so that there is a better understanding of what might be going on in the pot but not the main focus.

To continue with your cooking analogy, I'd see it more like letting the flavour come to me rather than going out there to produce a flavour. Accept the taste that you are given rather than to purposefully go out there to produce the flavour. Perhaps even follow the smell of the flavour and see where that leads.

Maybe something like this.....


Good Luck
 

Liselle

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Cooking the reading implies for me some conscious action - a possible interference.
I see your point, and agree, about letting the flavor come to you. I don't think understanding can be forced or produced on command. What I meant by "cooking" was mostly an analogy for thinking, stirring it around in your head real good. We can't force it, but maybe we can catalyze it, for lack of a better word? (But maybe this sounds too much like hexagram 50, which isn't what Yi told Rosada.)

Maybe conscious and unconscious cooking helps? Inspiration can come by looking for it (looking at the context hexagrams, or at different translations or commentaries), or just because it comes unbidden as we're dusting the coffee table.

(Cute commercial, by the way.)
 
F

Freedda

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Rosada, that's a very interesting question. But I have to admit, my take on it might not seem all that clear!

To start, earlier this morning, in reaction to another reading, I wrote down:

WAYS OF BEING - as an idea for what the Yi and it's responses might be about. And I then thought that this idea might be tied to the Yi's 'clear repsonses' that you are asking about.

To explore this more, your cast could mean that the Yi's 'clear response' is not about achieving goals (37.2) as in: 'yes this means my handsome prince / beautiful princess / one of each ... will come (or not)!'

And nor is it about doling out harsh or final judgements (37.3), as the Yi is so often interpreted, as in, 'this sounds like it (the job, the romance, the new roommate, etc) is not going to work out for me!'

So instead of telling us outcomes or giving us harsh pronoucements, the Yi's 'clear responses' might be giving us advice about how we might be in the world, how we might best react or respond to a situation, or what larger lessons we need to glean.

Besides the lines, I looked too at 37's trigrams - Fire, below and Wind/Wood, above - aka: exploring our world (or a particular situation) based on our sense of clarity, or that which 'lights' our way. So maybe a 'clear response' is about learning to use one's clarity in how we explore our world, and how we might feel our way - gently and with persistence - in doing that.

But here you also have two of the the three lines of the lower trigram (fire) 'lit up' or moving (to borrow from one Yi teacher), so I'm looking to the lower trigram of the related Gua 61, which is Lake, for what we might do.

So, how might Lake's joy serve us in knowing or finding clarity? Perhaps we might use our 'joy' - or in this case, our intuition or a sense of recognition that something is right or rings true for us - as a way of knowing if something is providing us clarity or not.

Sometimes in a reading - or in life - a response, or something that is said, or some connection that I make, etc., will produce an 'inner smile' from me; not necessarily that it's making me happy, but that I get a sense of recognition, or that something 'rings true' for me (even if sometimes it is not rational, or even 'makes sense').

The most immediate example is where I started out here, with WAYS OF BEING - which gave me this 'rings true' sense before I even started delving into your reading.

And that's as simple and as complicated as I can make it - at least for now. But, oiy! what do I know?

Best, D.
 
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my_key

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Just reading back through the thread and I got to walking down a path of musings. It struck me from Rosada's original post that Yi never gives 'vague answers'. It's much more like we are the ones that carry the vagueness, or maybe the filters and screens that seperate us from the wisdom on offer. When I and Yi are in accord then what I get is a perfectly clear response.

Over the years there have been may things that prevented me from getting on the same wavelength as Yi.
  • Not having researched the hexagram meaning sufficiently
  • Not having researched the line meaning sufficiently
  • Not looking into the deeper connectivity of the hexagrams
  • Rushing the consultation
  • Getting muddled by multiple consultations on or around the same subject.
  • Already knowing the answer / making assumptions
  • Wanting to know the answer rather than an answer
  • Grasping at 'good' answers - favourable outcomes or things that I want to do
  • Ignoring a 'bad' answer - unfavourable outcomes or things that I do not want to do
  • Over analysing - sometimes linked with wanting to know the answer.
  • Stopping the analysis too soon
  • Listening to my head rather than my heart
  • Listening to my heart rather than my head
  • Not listening at all
  • Listening to other people's interpretations (not trusting my own conversation with Yi)
  • Asking too complicated a question
  • Asking an unclear / ill-defined question - rubbish in, rubbish out.
And probably many more besides. Each has added a level, or levels, of cloudiness or confusion. It helped me enormously a few years back when I saw Chris Loftings book 'The Emotional I Ching' was subtitled ' A Language of the Vague'. So 'vagueness' became a base point from where I begin any divination and so any understanding or meaning I create is a bonus. I was vague and confused before I started and if I am vague and confused about my situation after the reading then I'm no worse off. It takes a lot of pressure off !

I realised that for me whatever I get from a reading, however small or seemingly cloudy, is enough. Sometimes I have to 'cook' some more; squeezing every last drop of the soup through the sieve (contrasting, opposite, nuclear, fan yao etc). At other times the dynamic of hexagram names or line positions satisfy the query. If I'm unclear my fall back is to, best as I can, follow the advice to the noble one. I may not understand why, but I'm more than likely walking in the right general direction.

Maybe conscious and unconscious cooking helps? Inspiration can come by looking for it (looking at the context hexagrams, or at different translations or commentaries), or just because it comes unbidden as we're dusting the coffee table.

Yes, I agree Liselle. A good picture comes from a blend of conscious and unconscious contributions. Not only inspiration but intuition too.

Sometimes in a reading - or in life - a response, or something that is said, or some connection that I make, etc., will produce an 'inner smile' from me; not necessarily that it's making me happy, but that I get a sense of recognition, or that something 'rings true' for me (even if sometimes it is not rational, or even 'makes sense').

The most immediate example is where I started out here, with WAYS OF BEING - which gave me this 'rings true' sense before I even started delving into your reading.

Good points, David. I think the trick here is being agile and alert enough to notice the 'inner smile'. Additionally, noticing the clues before, during and after the divination and not discounting them will provide important insights on clarifying the best way to be. It's important to remember that people don't need to wait for a group of campanologists to arrive on their doorstep to get that 'rings true' sense.

It's the dilemma of any artist - when are there sufficient brush strokes on the canvas to show enough of the picture. Maybe a few brush strokes creating the outline are enough or perhaps the finer detail needs to be added.

Good Luck
 
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Liselle

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That's a really good and comprehensive list, My_key. Thank you.

Rosada's point is a good one, though. I'm sure we all have reading-frustration in common, and I'm not sure it can always be explained by us doing an obviously poor job somewhere along the line. It's possible to ask a good question, and give the reading all kinds of proper thought, and still not get it. Sure, we're missing something, but sometimes there's not an obvious remedy.

For instance, three weeks ago I asked for advice to deal with a problem my cats are having, got an unchanging reading, and still have no idea what Yi's telling me (yes, the vet's been consulted, more than once).
 

my_key

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Hi Liselle

You are right that when you say it is not always down to a poor job, sometimes we just don't get it. Perhaps there is too much 'interference on the line' or 'the internet has gone down', or other circumstances outside of our control are prevailing. That is when having other inputs into the reading can be useful or I just step back to my fail safe 'noble one' mode. e.g. When I asked about going to tea with the Mafia and not being able to make head nor tail of the details of the reading Hex 45 - Don't resort to conflict but make sure you have enough protection in place around you to keep you safe.

Yep, frustrations do arise. For me here it is important not to become too frustrated. This I think drives the understanding even further away. For me the fail safe 'noble one' mode helped keep frustrations in check. With this I have an answer and over the years it's amazed me that once I've let the frustration go, after a few days or weeks, a penny drops or I find something behind the settee that gives clarity to the reading that was once so vague.

Take Care
 
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Liselle

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Tea with the Mafia?? Is that a real reading??
 

liquidity

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Frustrated with vague answers, I asked the I Ching what one ought to do to get clear responses.
I received 37.2.3-61.
Well what ever it is obviously I’m not doing it cause this answer makes no sense to me at all.

(WB)
.2: "She should not follow her whims. She must attend within to the food. Perseverance brings good fortune."
.3: "When tempers flare up in the family, too great a severity brings remorse. Good fortune nonetheless. When women and children dally and laugh, it leads in the end to humiliation."

And this in the key of 61. So the family here is the inner family.

The way I see it, Yi is saying: the truth about me will be known when you are in inner harmony.

Attend to the food within. 61 is inner truth. Get your own subsystems straight. Look to your own rationalizations and self-deceptions. Address your trauma. Straighten out your emotional baggage. To the extent you do that and you work in inner harmony, to that extent Yi will be clearer.
 

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