What will happen? 17.1.6 > 12

[simona]

He's a well-known professional in his field.
I use to visit his website and read & write in his forum. I started about one year ago.
On his forum, he only answers (short answers) to questions, he never has "discussions" with anyone. But yesterday we had a pretty long and funny discussion. I would like to meet him, I find him an interesting person.

I asked the IC:
What will happen between me and him?"
The answer: 17.1.6 > 12.

Could you please help me to interpret this answer?

My ideas:

17.1:
The standard is changing. (We are not at the same level, professionally and socially. It might be this?)
Perseverance brings good fortune. (I should continue to visit his forum.)
To go out of the door in company / Produces deeds. (We might meet?)

17.6
This refers to a man, an exalted sage, who has already put the turmoil of the world behind him. But a follower appears who understands him and is not to be put off. So the sage comes back into the world and aids the other in his work. Thus there develops an eternal tie between the two. (He's the sage, I'm the follower "not to be put off" and he might have some influence on my professional life?)

As the resulting hex, 12, I don't know how to interpret it. When I saw it, I thought "well, nothing will happen between me and him", but if I read the 17.1 and 17.6 as I explained before, then this interpretation of 12 ("nothing") is contradictory. Or maybe he's not this interesting person I think he is?

So, I need help.

Thank you.

 

[willowfox]

It could suggest that he will communicate with you via email, like in discussing things with you but that is as far as it would go.

 

[dobro p]

What will happen between me and him?"
The answer: 17.1.6 > 12.

Overall, the big picture: You're following him, but that will be obstructed.

The details: in the context of your interest in him and your desire for more contact and communication with him, there's some success in terms of occasional or 'one-off' communication, but nothing suggests that this will develop or become established. Quite the opposite, in fact.

See, Hex 12 is all about obstruction, a big part of which is often blocked communication.

 

[simona]

Overall, the big picture: You're following him, but that will be obstructed.
See, Hex 12 is all about obstruction, a big part of which is often blocked communication.

That was also my ideea. But I was hoping for a more encouraging interpretation from you .

Thanks you both.

 

[dobro p]

Well, that all depends on whether you choose to read just the active lines (17.1 and 17.6), which are pretty positive actually, considering your question, or whether you choose to include the relating hex 12 in the reading. But even if, like me, you *do* include the relating hex, then there's always the question of scale. That's the factor that's never clear to anyone except the person asking the question. For instance, that Hex 12 obstruction in the picture you got - is it a big brick wall obstruction, or just an element of obstruction which could well be overcome in the future? Only you can say. What's your feeling? Aside from what you WANT, of course. Never listen to what you want when interpreting - what you want lies every time - what you want always tells you what you want, and never what's actually going on.

 

[simona]

thank you, dobro.
there is obstruction, that for sure: we move in different worlds, although we live in the same city. we'll see if it's a big brick wall or just an element that can be overcome in the future.

I posted this answer (17.1.6. > 12) because I nedeed help with the interpretation, of course, but also because I wanted to understand how I can "combine" the meaning of the 17.1, 17.6 with the meaning of the 12. I am a beginner, those lines and the resulting hex seemed contradictory to me, and I wanted to see and understand how someone experienced would interpret it.

Thanks again.

 

[simona]

about the same person, I asked today:
What does he think about me?
The answer: 22.4 > 30 , which almost scared me.

 

[Trojina]

I'm thinking that when the first and last lines of a hexagram change they sort of encompass or hold within them the esssence of the relating hexagram. I also tend to find when the first and last lines change the situation is episodic or a 'one off' it doesn't go anywhere its a whole mini story by itself. So 17 to 12 makes me think the communication between you isn't really going that far, as others have said. The long funny discussion may likley be a one off. He changed his habit (17.1) and then finished with it (17.6). If you read the 2 hexagrams as a sentence you 'following standstill' IOW a following stopped


Not sure why 22.4 would scare you ?

 

[simona]

Not sure why 22.4 would scare you ?

because it was strange, in this context. I know it sounds good, but it's an answer I wasn't expecting.
in other words, I was surprised.

 

[kitsune]

Line 6 is him obviously, because you said that he always responded brief and impartially among forum users (?) Line one shows the change in this situation, the fact that a gate is open so that you receive some privilege. So you enjoy a special communication with him.
I don't know why things so good would lead to stagnation. Stagnation is not Obstruction, In obstruction at least there is some movement, stagnation is much worse. It's almost dead.
You should look at the nuclear hexagram for more info.

 

[simona]

You should look at the nuclear hexagram for more info.

I will. I'm a beginner, so I need some time.

But maybe this answer I got today will help. I asked:
How could I overcome this obstacle between me and him?
The answer: 47.4 > 29

He comes very quietly, oppressed in a golden carriage.
Humiliation, but the end is reached.

A well-to-do man sees the need of the lower classes and would like very much to be of help. But instead of proceeding with speed and energy where there is need, he begins in a hesitant and measured way. Then he encounters obstructions. Powerful and wealthy acquaintances draw him into their circle; he has to do as they do and cannot withdraw from them. Hence he finds himself in great embarrassment. But the trouble is transitory. The original strength of his nature offsets the mistake he has made, and the goal is reached.


I'm not sure, but it seems like this obstacle/stagnation will end, some day.

 

[kitsune]

Well... It may be that the I Ching is telling you to take things with simplicity, and not pursue external things. Hex 30 also speaks of modesty and simplicity

 

[simona]

Hahaha, 22.4 is funny He's having doubts whether you are something special, out of a fairy tale or a mirage.

 

[Trojina]

Line 6 is him obviously, because you said that he always responded brief and impartially among forum users (?) Line one shows the change in this situation, the fact that a gate is open so that you receive some privilege. So you enjoy a special communication with him.
I don't know why things so good would lead to stagnation. Stagnation is not Obstruction, In obstruction at least there is some movement, stagnation is much worse. It's almost dead.
You should look at the nuclear hexagram for more info.

Because the relating hexagram does not have to be where the primary leads. Its the context or background most of the time I find. Also it isn't really something 'so good'.
Its like in the context of stagnation (hex 12) there is a brief following 17.1.6. Not that one can really say it is good or bad anyway.

 

[willowfox]

Do not be misled by people telling you to go and look at other hexs, your answer 17.1,6 > 12 is complete, delving any deeper leads only to complete confusion.
You are still a beginner, so keep to the basics until you have a very firm understanding of them, nuclear hexs etc are out of your league and should be well left alone.

People here should have more commonsense, telling beginners to delve into all sorts of strange areas of the IC is completely the wrong thing to do.

 

[kitsune]

I wasn't trying to mislead her, willowfox. I learned of the nuclear hexagram when i started learning i ching. Maybe you should advise beginners to learn the way it's learned at a i ching institute in china, first with the trigrams and how they relate to one another. In that case, she should only study the first hexagram and how the trigrams work, and not even try to see how the two hexagrams connect, because it's complicated

My advice would be study hard, see how things relate to you, get a pen and a notebook and write down the hexagrams and their dates, with your observations. Don't hurry to throw another hexagram, work to understand the ones that you get. And get various I Ching books so you can develop your discernment.

Also my advice would be don't rush to the forum with your hexagrams, first study them private and after you have an image for yourself, if there are things you don't understand post them on the forum. Otherwise you'll be like a leaf in the wind.

 

[simona]

Also my advice would be don't rush to the forum with your hexagrams, first study them private and after you have an image for yourself, if there are things you don't understand post them on the forum. Otherwise you'll be like a leaf in the wind.

Of course I study them first and I try to form my own image about the hexagrams I get, but I think that it is very useful to confront my opinion&image with the opinions of the experienced users. I think it helps me to learn. Because I read your interpretation, willowfox's, trojan's and this helps me to understand how each of you interpret the answers and therefore to learn.

You know, when you want to learn maths, you can study it by yourself, by reading the books. But it's always better if someone more experienced explains you how he calculates x in 1+ x = 2.

Thank you.
Simona

 

[ginnie]

He may be sick.

He may be sick. Hexagram 12 often means illness.

The relating hexagram to sixth line moving in 17 is 25, The Unexpected. I am saying: You might hear that he is, for example, very old and has an illness.

17 means also: Have no ulterior motives, plan no strategies.

He may not be the person you think he is. Watch out, because the indications are that you will become tightly bound to this man through allegiance. Make sure he is worthy of such allegiance and loyalty! The 12 might be an indication his organization is stagnant, an organization that has departed from the Way of Life. Line 6 is many times giving a warning. You'll have to check this out.

The nuclear trigrams make the hexagram 53, which means there is a strong possibility of a gradual development in your relationship with this man and his organization.

 

[ginnie]

Correcting my error

In my post, just above, I meant to say that hexagram 25 means "have no ulterior motives, plan no strategies," not Hexagram 17. Sorry.

There is definitely the possibility of a long-term relationship here, because the nuclear hexagrams make 53, gradual development.

And I want to say about 22.4>30. One translation reads: "Adorned but stopped are his long-maned white horses. He comes not for plunder, but for marriage." What woman would not be scared at hearing something along these lines? One feels the intensity. It's like everything is rising to a head.

So I want to tell everyone that I think it's a good idea to collect a lot of I Chings and have many translations to draw upon, because words are so . . . important.

 

[simona]

Thank you, barbra.
(You see, that's what I think it's better to share the readings, especially when you are a beginner; it gives you, somtimes, a lot of useful insights, from which one can learn a lot.)

 

[valerius]

Hex 17 says about a woman following a man. You've got the first line and the last one. So, you may understand that the story in itself is complete - you follow this man. The lines show the beginning of the movement then the ending, not necessarily an apex. It's like you are catching his tail for one week or so, than nothing - you just cease. In this case of yours the first hex shows the facts as they are or they will soon be - see the upper trigram. The second hex is here more of a conclusion, a natural idea - if you just understand that the lines appearing in 17 show you that things have a beginning but also an ending - the first line and the last one. Your 17 is like a complete circle, in itself.

 

[simona]

It's like you are catching his tail for one week or so, than nothing - you just cease. In this case of yours the first hex shows the facts as they are or they will soon be - see the upper trigram.

Valerius, I wonder who you are (because this is your unique post in this forum), but you were soooo right!

 

[ginnie]

Hi Simona,

I have a question for you. About line 6, the Blofeld translation says: "those above us have exhausted their merit. . . . Rulers who consistently behave ill thereby forfeit the mandate of heaven and cease to deserve obedience."

Is that what happened? Did he behave badly?

It's great that you've gotten back to this thread to post what happened . . .

 

[simona]

Hi Simona,
Is that what happened? Did he behave badly?

No. I just stopped "following" him, as valerius said ("you are catching his tail for one week or so, than nothing - you just cease"). No particular reason. Maybe "those above us have exhausted their merit" means that he wasn't / I didn't find him (or the situation) interesting anymore. Maybe that's what "exhausting their merit" is about.

 

[Topher]

I know this thread is 800years old... but 17.1.6 first was decided to follow him 17.1 but then decided against it for some reason 17.6 so she decided to go and things remained in standstill. I would bet that OP was important for him but he didnt express the sincerity he should have