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What will happen with our marraige

hskrkd

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hello I am new to this
I ask a question what will happen with our marraige, I get .I do not understand
47. K'un / Oppression (Exhaustion
7. Shih / The Army
 

willow

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Hi Hskrkd,

Both of them are about structures, containers, boundaries we use to define ourselves. #47 is about your attitude toward a structure that, at present, does not seem to be serving its purpose. (The water has drained out of the lake).

A marriage is very much a structure, a container that two people create. It is the "walls" that two people build around a special place. The walls both define and protect the place.

If the place feels "exhausted," the oracle says, "the superior man stakes his life on following his will." What this means to me is that it is time to ask yourself a couple of questions, and then follow the truth of the answers. The first question is, "Does this container feel like a special place or a prison?" The second is, "What do *I* want this container to feel like?" In other words, "Why am I standing here by this empty lake?"

See, if it still feels special, and you still want it to feel special, you set out on a course of action to bring water back to the lake, protection back to the garden. If it feels like a prison, but you want it to feel like a special place again, you start to look at *why* it's feeling like a prison, and you again have a basis to begin action.

And, of course, no matter what it feels like, if you find in your heart that you don't *want* it to feel special again, then you have touched the truth that will keep you from insincerely attempting to "fix" a container you really have no heartfelt intent to delight in again.

Now, given that the resulting hexagram is #7, I have the feeling that your case is one of the first two possibilities. Because #7 answers the question, "Where did the water go?" It drained down into the earth. "In the middle of the earth is water: the image of the army."

Wilhelm says, "GROUND WATER is invisibly present within the earth. In the same way the military power of a people is invisibly present in the masses. When danger threatens, every peasant becomes a soldier; when the war ends, he goes back to his plough."

The issue for #7 is how do you bring forth powerful and appropriate action from present, but inactive, resources. And the answer is by providing structure, container, discipline - but not just any kind of discipline: a *gentle* discipline. A generous discipline, one that brings out the quality of the bond between the partners, awakens enthusiasm.

I'm reminded of the "love is" passage from the bible: "Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth." (1 Corinthians 13, 4-6)

The changing line at 4 (oppressed by golden carriage) suggests to me that there might be a question of one or both partners making the situation worse than it might be by measuring the relationship by how it may fail to live up to someone else's ideal (or perhaps your own ideal).

Then again, it could be that you've taken too much to heart the fact that in some ways you are living up to the ideal. I know one couple that found it incredibly painful to be looked up to as an ideal couple by friends, because when they went through rough times, they felt they couldn't be free to stumble, because their friends were hanging on their example.

The change at the 5th line suggests that where you hope for understanding and support from others, you don't find it. The thing to remember here is that you are not "oppressed" directly by the lack of understanding. You are oppressed by your own upset about the lack - your feeling that you *must* be understood. The lines, "Joy comes softly. It furthers one to make offerings and libations." indicate that you don't get over this feeling easily or all at once - it's a slow process. And, as with all slow processes, they are eased (and continuing is made possible) if you have some sort of gentle ritual that allows you to connect within yourself, and to powers larger than yourself in a sustained way. (There's another example of discipline.)

One final note - look at one of the changing lines you *didn't* get: #3. This line says "He enters the house and doesn't see his wife.
Misfortune." The fact that the oracle did not address this statement to you suggests that you have the presence of mind to know what the real issues are. The other part of that line refers to taking foolish action (butting against a stone, leaning to rest on a thorn), so, again, since you did not get this line, I don't think you have to worry about being a fool here. And, if you had gotten change at #3, the resulting hexagram would be #28 (with its indication of reaching the breaking point), instead of #7, with its indication of all you need being present, only in an invisible form.

Hope this helps,

Willow
 

hskrkd

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Thank You I am very happy you took the time to
help me I will try this patients to get my marraige back
 

hskrkd

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Today I asked the question will my huband try to be faithful and not hurt me and it gives me 23 splitting apart in both answers ..it says that to go some where isnt benefitting so now i am very confused about this answer it seems to be saying opposite things .I am sorry to be a pain I quess
it is hard for me because i am so involved in situation.Any help would be appreciated.
 

hilary

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Hello Hskrkd,

Willow has written you a very beautiful and profound reading there on the deeper meaning of that first answer - finding the positive potential within it for you to work with.

Before I go any further, I'd like to say this: this is your marriage, and you shouldn't take anyone else's word about it as 'the truth'. This is true anyway, but all the more so when Hexagram 47 is pointing you towards what you know inwardly, at a deep level, and away from words. So the way to look at what Willow and I write is constantly to measure it against your own unspoken understanding.

Hexagram 47 is a picture of a tree enclosed on every side by walls. It could become a secret garden - but it usually feels like a prison. Confined in this small space, you?re thrown back entirely on your own resources.

I would guess from this reading that your communication with your husband is very poor, and that you don?t feel any reliable support coming from him. As Willow says, the core issue is your own inner truth and commitment - and from there, your unspoken understanding with your husband.

You tackle this in the spirit of the Army: you will fight for the marriage, you won?t just sit back and allow this to happen. Determined, disciplined, battling on - Hexagram 7 is all of these things, but it is very rarely enjoyable.

About line 4: metal chariots shine beautifully, but they can?t move easily. Can you see anything in your marriage that looks like this - concern with image and appearance that blocks off your spontaneous responses and keeps you apart? This is not a pleasant thought, I know, but going through with it is worthwhile.

About line 5: it sounds as though your image of your self and your sense of autonomy are being badly injured. Are there external forces doing this - or are you being ?punished? under rules created within the marriage itself? Whichever is true, you can?t break out of these constraints all at once - it has to happen gently and gradually, without heat. Are there new ways you can show a sincere and honest commitment to the relationship?

Hexagram 23, I?m afraid, looks as if things need to get worse before they can get better. Whatever your husband?s intentions, the marriage?s whole foundation of trust and security has been eroded.

?Not beneficial to go somewhere? essentially means that there?s no secure basis for purposeful action here. It?s no longer about him trying to keep from hurting you or show his best face to you (though there could have been too much of that in the past). Those surfaces are being stripped away, and the initial result is to make you feel profoundly hurt and insecure. It could well be that he feels the same way, and just can?t find the confidence even to start making good resolutions about the future.

This is not a positive answer, I'm sorry, but even this one does have a positive purpose within it. Without stripping away what is no longer viable, you couldn?t create the space for something new and vital to grow. You need great generosity of spirit to look after those foundations, to start building again from the ground up.

I hope this helps!
 

hskrkd

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yes this helps and all make sense .Thank You both for your help .
 

alisa

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I'm curious...

Why did Hskrkd get 47 first and 23 second when the bottom line is 23? Is it because Yi thought(?!) Hskrkd needed to hear 47 before she could accept 23? Or, is it because since she didn't get the true message of 47, that she needed to get 23?
 

willow

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Alisa,
I assume by "bottom line" you mean the main point/truth of the situation, not the first line? I don't know if I have an answer why, but what I notice when I look back at #47 in light of #23 is that there are at least two "enclosures" to contemplate. One is the marriage, and the other is Hskrkd herself. Perhaps, if indeed the marriage does "split apart," Yi wants to remind her that she herself endures. And even if she feels drained, exhausted, her own sense of self and security, and secret garden is still worth fighting for.

Hskrkd,
What I know of #23 is that the emphasis is on the "seeds." That is, once you have cut away all the trappings and non-essentials, you are left either with nothing, or with the seeds of something new. What once was cannot continue in the form it previously had, but if there is something wonderful and true and essential that was there, it will endure the "stripping away" and become available to you when the time and place are right for it to grow. When everything disintegrates, the wheel turns, and a new cycle begins. There is a lot to be learned from the hexagram that is "paired" with the one you get, and the pair for #23 is #24, the Turning Point.

You ask if your husband will try and be faithful and not hurt you, and the answer suggests he will be paying attention to the essentials, not to the trappings. I don't know if that means yes or no, but it suggests to me that in his actions he will be intent on (or at least unwittingly revealing to himself/others) getting to the essentials of what motivates the choices of infidelity and fidelity for him.

There is the phrase in the image: "Thus those above can ensure their position only by giving generously to those below." One possible interpretation of this is that the emphasis may be on paying generous attention to the 'baser' instincts, to perhaps lust and desire. Another interpretation would be just paying more attention to all that is 'inside'. In any case, the suggestion is that your husband will be coming to a deeper understanding and acceptance of himself, what the enduring 'seeds' within him are.

Without saying that you should easily return to trust, I would say that you should let him know there is room in your heart to connect with him as a new and more complex person, and to your marriage as a new and more complex thing.

I do some study of astrology (which is really just premodern psychology!), and it seems to me that a little about the sign Scorpio might be helpful here. The signs Taurus and Scorpio are associated with sex - Taurus with procreative sex, and Scorpio with 'recreational' sex.

There are three animals associated with Scorpio - the scorpion, the eagle, and the phoenix, and there is a sense of progression from one animal-image to the next. Each has insight to the power of desire.

The scorpion has just discovered the power, and uses it without much thought, doesn't realize its own strength - stinging others, and perhaps itself in remorse. The eagle has a lay of the land perspective, but still uses its power to its own ends, swooping down on prey. The phoenix is the bird that is said to have brought music to the world. Just before it dies, it sings a song so hauntingly beautiful that all of creation stops to listen, and is reminded of what is most true and most essential. Then it dies, and a new phoenix springs forth from its ashes.

The reason I say all that is because that phoenix story is another perspective on the idea of the seed in #23. I think when you get #23, and its association with seeds (death/rebirth) in a context that is explicitly about sex, it helps to be reminded that it is not the desire itself that is the issue/problem, it is the level of maturity the person is operating on.

So don't exactly trust your husband, but know that he may (or may not) be maturing. He's got it in his head that there is something essential about desire, and that's true (it's part of the seed). The question is, as he moves into this next phase, has he matured enough to attempt to more responsibly express this energy with consideration for others (you!) or not.

As I get to this point in what I'm writing, it seems I'm starting to sound like I'm supporting codependence: "Oh, accept him back, give him the chance to show he's changed..." I really don't want it to sound that way, because, I Ching and Astrology aside, you really have to take care of yourself, assert your own boundaries, what is acceptable and unacceptable to *you*.

But maybe that's another reason for #47 to be there first - to remind you that step one is looking around and getting a sense of your boundaries, assuring that you are on a path to be sheltering a garden, not building a prison. Then step two is to look at what seeds may have fallen on the soil in your garden. (If they're weeds, then you'll know what to do!)
 

hskrkd

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I understand very well withe the pluto ,scorpio/taurus explanation.I have studied astrology for a long time. You all have explained it well thank You for the help! Now I must contemplate what is inside and take time to figure this all out in regards to my marraige
again thank you very much .It all rings very true
 

alisa

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I still question the reasoning behind the two different hexagrams when there is basically one question, "what will happen to our marriage", because without a faithful husband there is no marriage (second question).

47 doesn't tell it like it is like 23 does, that is, that things have to fall apart before they can be put back together.

So, my question is, since first question contained the second question (without a faithful husband there is no marriage), why didn't Hskrkd receive 23 in the first? Why beat around the bush?
 
C

candid

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Hi Alisa,

Perhaps if you asked the same question you may have gotten 23 straight-away. Since it was Hskrkd's (try saying that 3 time quickly!) psyche which formulated the question, Yi addressed her right where she was at the moment she asked.

There is a steadfastness and determination message in 47, which establishes Hskrkd's feet squarely on the ground. This is the foundation from which she can operate. 47 also expresses the gravity of being oppressed, including the drying up of inner resources. It illustrates the powerful emotions of such a time, as well. Sometimes, just feeling understood gives us the courage and encouragement to wage a successful campaign in a great undertaking, even if that undertaking is a splitting apart.

~Candid
 

alisa

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psyche which formulated the question, Yi addressed her right where she was at the moment she asked.

"Psyche" formulated the question? Ooo...that could be disasterous!

So Candid, does it matter where the question comes from?
 

alisa

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Oh thank you, Candid. That's what I thought.

Whether a question comes out of the past present or future makes a difference. I was confused there for a moment.
 

bluestone

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Hi,
My question is "would I find enough work in the next six months?". I got hexagram 53, gradual progress, with no moving line.

Can some one help me to inteprete please
 

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