When Question (46.4 > 32)

[akath19]

Hey!

I've been looking in a lot of places trying to find out about "When" questions but so far I've found only vague references to King Wen's later heaven diagram and the seasons, however I've seen a few "When" questions being answered a lot more directly than just "Summer" or "Spring", so I'd like to know if anyone could help me with this.

I asked " When will X and I become lovers?" and got 46.4 > 32

Now in calendar terms Chen (because with the changing line K'un becomes Chen) refers to Spring and I found in a beautifully arranged diagram that it referred to a time around March 21st (the diagram can be found here, but it's in spanish).

So according to that the time should be in or around March 21st??

Can anyone help me please?

Thanx

 

[lloyd]

Various ancient scholars have emphasized that I Ching is not for seeing in the future. The vague references to the Later Heaven diagram may have to do with the back flowing movement. I have the following on this:
"Satisfying hunger is something we know how to do without being taught. To understand this naturalness is to see it from a dimension where hunger nor food exist. What in Taoism is called "tracing back to the source", is the capacity to incorporate the living experience into the dimension where the experience is not, and vise verse. The 'back flowing movement' consists in following time in its opposite course, towards origin; it is a determining force, not an active movement. In going with the flow one acts upon the relationships one experiences, moving into the future. Combining the two flows of moving forward and backwards is fulfilling the Tao".

Meanwhile 46/4 suggests that your own openness will get its due rewards, so I would put flowers in my room and stock up on some good wine.

 

[akath19]

Ouch, thanx for your reply but I kinda felt like I'm being reprimanded for my question, anyway when you say that the I Ching is not for seeing the future, what do you mean exactly?, because most if not all of the questions in the forum (and frankly most of what is thought about it) deal with seeing the future in one way or another.


Could you please elaborate on the "not for seeing the future" point, and if it's not for seeing the future then what is it for??

 

[Trojina]

Ouch, thanx for your reply but I kinda felt like I'm being reprimanded for my question, anyway when you say that the I Ching is not for seeing the future, what do you mean exactly?, because most if not all of the questions in the forum (and frankly most of what is thought about it) deal with seeing the future in one way or another.


Could you please elaborate on the "not for seeing the future" point, and if it's not for seeing the future then what is it for??

seeing the present ? If you can see clearly into the present, really understand your present, your future moves should be more harmonious hopefully. Thats what i think its for alot of the time.

Your question assumes you will become lovers Your question also assumes that its a matter of fate when you and x will be lovers and that some mysterious force will decide for you when you will be lovers...er maybe its down to you and x when and if you become lovers ?

Sometimes i ask in a fatalistic way like you have, just to get a picture, to try to get a feel for the future but I think theres more to be gained from consulting than just that and if you start on an assumption that has no firm footing then where can a 'when' question get you ?

Anyway I don't know how to use the Yi for timing and have never needed to but there are people around sometimes who can.

46.4 is about sacrifice to the intangible, a kind of act of faith I think..perhaps its important for you to hold faith in this though that doesn't answer your question.


I should add I've heard originally the Yi was used precisely for knowing the future with questions such as 'will it rain' and so on...so I can't really say the Yi is not for reading the future but i do think very much future orientated questions with no reference to the present often go off track in personal readings when they are based on assumptions

 

[akath19]

Yeah, I've read in a lot of places (and I also was in a Chinese Culture class in college with an extremely knowledgeable scholar here in Colombia), that the Yi was (and still is) used for divination, the thing is that I don't quite agree with the Taoist way of approaching the Yi (I have a Yi translation from a Taoist master called Thomas Cleary but in my opinion it clouds the translation/interpretation too much and makes it almost impossible to understand).

Anyway, thank you for your reply, I asked that question as a follow up in my romantic potential with said person and honestly I just wanted to have a timeframe (even if it was a vague one) because the Yi had answered my other questions about it basically saying "be patient".

 

[alyce21]

I've occasionally tried to use the i ching for timing questions, and it's never worked. I've also tried with tarot, and it's never worked. It works for some apparently, but you need to decide on a 'system' to assign the cards to particular time periods, before you do the reading. I imagine if you were going to try timing with the i ching you would have to decide on what particular time period each hexagram corresponded to before you did the reading. Even then, I have my doubts about whether it would work, because I've tried this with tarot and I've concluded that the universe does not want me to know specifically 'when', and often the answers that I get if I ask a when question are along the lines of 'it will happen when you learn the lesson of this card'. I have occasionally gotten a sense of time such as pulling a card which seems to indicate immediacy or a strong message of take action now, and likewise I've pulled cards which say to me that something is going to be a long time coming, or that I should wait and be patient for now.

I think that the i ching can kind of be used to tell the future. I think that the universe will show us the future if we ask, but never all of it. Or at least that's the way it seems to work with me. The i ching and other divination methods sort of show me a glimpse of the present and the future, mixed with advice. Sometimes some issues are more decided or stable than others I think, whereas others are constantly changing and it's hard to predict what will happen. Lately I've been feeling as if it's just not important to know for sure what will happen. The universe tends to send me little signs (and sometimes big ones) to push me in the right direction, and I've had dreams which have turned out to be premonitions. I think sometimes when I ask outrightly when or what will happen the universe doesn't like it and usually tells me so. Usually the i ching's answers will reflect back at me the current nature of the situation, or remind me not to doubt myself and to go with my intuition, which is always right. Or it will give me advice on what action I need to take to make something happen.

I feel that perhaps the i ching isn't answering your question, but instead giving you advice. 'When' questions are particularly dicey for me. I almost always receive the answer 'it will happen when it's meant to happen if it's meant to happen' which is a very true answer, although irritating. I think often things come to you when you stop worrying and thinking too much about what you want and when it might happen and just take it all one day at a time, slowly working towards what you want and putting the effort in but not forcing or rushing it either. Hmm, not sure if that idea fits with 46.4...maybe a little? Perhaps this line is telling you to have faith, and I like lloyd's thought of your openness getting its due rewards. I quite like Lise's words for this line...'The mind starts something long before any action is taken. Without this preparation actions will be weak and without direction. The mind steers the actions, the intention creates the outcome.'

 

[akath19]

Wow!, thanx Alyce for your answer, it's pretty insightful and you also wrote a few of my own thoughts (especially about how the universe sends advice mixed with small visions of the future), I also believe what you said about asking questions regarding timing, I just wanted to see if there was a semi straightforward way of asking a question like this one.

Actually with this question and those regarding my relationship with X, the most recurrent answer is "be patient" so I guess that's what I ought to be, which is exactly what you said.

Thanx again for your opinion on what I thought to be a dead thread!

 

[alyce21]

Glad my ramblings helped Actually I got this line myself today in a reading, about a similar situation funnily enough, and came here to see if there were any discussions about this particular line, and found this thread. Heh, synchronicity I guess?

 

[jesed]

Así que en en la hermosa Colombia???

Please check your PM inbox

Best wishes

 

[viviank]

Hi akath
Any updates?