When should I apologize? 42.1.2.5 > 4

[heatwave]

I owe someone an apology. I still feel wronged by them but don't feel that justifies my bad behavior. So I want to apologize for my part despite how I feel about theirs even though I don't necessarily want to maintain a friendship. Maybe my question seems straightforward. My thought behind this is do I wait until I have mentally sorted out what I think about everything in case they have something to say, or do you say you're sorry the moment you know you're sorry?

Is hexagram 4 calling me out for trying to know everything before just simply apologizing?

What I gather from the oracle is to do it now. Also, the image sounds like an apology, no?

THE IMAGE
Wind and thunder: the image of INCREASE
Thus the superior man:
If he sees good he imitates it;
If he has faults, he rids himself of them.

 

[Trojina]

At a glance to me this answer confirms your generosity of heart which is all that matters (line 5) - the details of what to say and when don't matter. The 4 suggests to me you can't be 100% clear about what is and isn't your fault or someone else's fault anyway, you can't make any kind of exact tally out of this, it isn't knowable

My thought behind this is do I wait until I have mentally sorted out what I think about everything in case they have something to say, or do you say you're sorry the moment you know you're sorry?

I don't think you need to wait until you have everything mentally sorted out to say sorry, there's too much you can't know, you can't even know how much you are at fault anyway. I'd say looking at this reading you cannot be very much at fault since the deepest impulse of your heart here is kindly.


Now if this person comes back to capitalise on your apology, you know to take advantage of it or something - well you have done all you can do. But this isn't a reading of loss but of great blessing so I'd think the generous impulse of your own heart is returned in kind. Hope I'm right.

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi heatwave,

"When should I apologize?"
42.1.2.5 to 4 ~ Right away, and show maturity when doing it.

From Daniel Young's i-Ching:

42. Increase

It is favorable to have an objective and the right time to set out on a great undertaking.

1. The time is favorable for great accomplishments, leading to blameless, supreme good fortune.

2. A tremendous and irresistible increase is bestowed and steadiness in that direction brings good fortune. It brings together material and spiritual power.

5. A kind heart receives an increase with no questions asked.
​

and

4. Immaturity

Act unselfishly. The source of wisdom does not seek out the young and ignorant. The young and ignorant must seek out the source. First questions get a response but repeating them is disrespectful and gets no response. Make use of the insights.​

Honestly, you both made a mistake when you started an in-office romance? As a rule, office environments just are not equipped to mediate love interests?

However, by spilling the beans to your co-worker, you've invited the office culture to judge the character and behavior of both of you?

If he really is a bad guy ~ a menacing, glowering bully ~ who could be a threat to others, too, then there are better ways to go about dealing with it?

And, if you aren't sure that he really is a bad guy, or not ~ then it 'looks' like toxic revenge by you, and perhaps you should seriously consider leaving the job?

But, but, but...in any case, imho, you should apologize directly to him, in the presence of the person you spoke with about him, and humble yourself with non-blaming acceptance of your role in getting the situation to this point? If you know you were wrong, then ask for forgiveness?

Your toss says that if you do square yourself up with what has happened, then you will be greatly increased in your life ~ you can turn lemons into lemonade by making use of the insights?

Everybody makes mistakes ~ be elegant and graceful in your recovery ~ and you'll set yourself apart in a good way.

All love and blessings to you!

 

[Trojina]

Honestly, you both made a mistake when you started an in-office romance? As a rule, office environments just are not equipped to mediate love interests?

However, by spilling the beans to your co-worker, you've invited the office culture to judge the character and behavior of both of you?

If he really is a bad guy ~ a menacing, glowering bully ~ who could be a threat to others, too, then there are better ways to go about dealing with it?

And, if you aren't sure that he really is a bad guy, or not ~ then it 'looks' like toxic revenge by you, and perhaps you should seriously consider leaving the job?

Where is all this coming from ? She hasn't said this is about an office romance. It might be since there was a thread about that but we can't be certain. There could be someone else in her life she wants to apologise to.

How do you know how she has gone about dealing with it ?



And this

And, if you aren't sure that he really is a bad guy, or not ~ then it 'looks' like toxic revenge by you, and perhaps you should seriously consider leaving the job?

where do you see 'toxic revenge' in a post where someone asks about apologising. As for the advice to leave her job because of this I'm quite shocked. Why on earth should she leave her job ?



And

However, by spilling the beans to your co-worker, you've invited the office culture to judge the character and behavior of both of you?

Again she has said nothing in this thread about spilling beans to a co-worker ? Perhaps you are thinking of another thread in which case it might be a good idea to link to it ?

But, but, but...in any case, imho, you should apologize directly to him, in the presence of the person you spoke with about him, and humble yourself with non-blaming acceptance of your role in getting the situation to this point? If you know you were wrong, then ask for forgiveness?

I don't know why you are assuming such great guilt on the part of heatwave but this whole flavour of self abasement in front of others you suggest seems quite weird. Where are you getting all these ideas about heatwave's situation from ? Your reply feels quite judgmental to me.

 

[Trojina]

Okay checking past threads. There was this one where the guy wouldn't leave her alone and more or less stalking her

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?26914-How-to-get-him-to-leave-me-alone-23uc

I remember you telling her to leave her job there as if a woman needs to leave her job because she is being harassed. There's another thread I've not read yet - will read


There is one where she is worried sick about confiding in someone about this guy who is harassing her

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-will-be-the-result-of-my-action-36-3-6-gt-27


….and then there's you here telling her it's all her fault and she should abase herself and she is full of toxic revenge. She is the victim in this and no she shouldn't have to leave her job over it. It's 2019 not 1952.

She's been upset about this for some time because this guy won't leave her alone. Of course she should confide in her co workers otherwise she becomes ever more isolated.


If she doesn't want him to keep following her he should stop following her. The solution is not that she 'humbly ' abase herself, blame herself for his harassment and leave her job - no matter what the level of harassment is. If she wants to be left alone then he must leave her alone and not follow her around after work.

 

[Trojina]

Can't thank posts anymore I just get this weird message


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...but I thought Mary's reply on the that second thread was pretty good.

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi Trojina,

I just went through the threads, thanks for linking to them. I like mary's reading, too?

I may be in the minority on this one, but I'll leave it to heatwave to say?

I'm not trying to judge ~ it seems like 'safety' is a primary concern in this situation ~ my hope is that a robust discussion will get the most out of it?

And, if I need to apologize, of course I will!

All Best!

 

[Trojina]

I don't know if he is an actual threat but it's obviously distressing for heatwave. Guess I just don't understand your approach here. It's not clear what you are referring to because you are referring to things beyond this thread and seemingly quite weighted towards heatwave's guilt in the matter. But yes up to heatwave what she wants to take or leave but I don't think she can blame herself because he won't leave her alone. I now wonder having read the 2nd thread on this whether she should even apologise, she didn't do anything wrong just by telling someone how she felt. I don't see what else she is meant to do. She can't suffer in silence and I can't see why she should leave her job because of it. The idea she should apologize to the man who is causing her so much distress in front of someone else seems very weird to me. I think it would be better to say nothing as Freedda said on the 2nd thread.


It seems an auspicious cast to make the apology but I don't think she needs to make a meal of self abasement out of it. He's at fault so perhaps her apology will make him apologise. Hopefully he will realise how much his behaviour has distressed her.

 

[heatwave]

Well, after reading responses I kind of regret having to admit that the apology I want to give is to the man I've been posting about. I still don't think at all that anything I've done justifies his behavior towards me. Why should I be made to feel so uncomfortable? I ended things maturely and clearly 6 months ago. I don't know if radiofreewill is a woman or has been on the receiving end of something like this, but it doesn't feel good and is flat out disturbing. I couldn't care less if someone for some reason thought I was out to get "toxic revenge" on him. I am not. I just want to move on with my life. The fact is, this is the job I have right now and this has been such an emotional drain for me. If there is something I can do to move past it, I want to do that. This has brought out the worst in me at work and I've said things about him and divulged information about him out of anger and that I regret. Sometimes an apology can be a place to start in moving past a blocked situation. The hexagram I cast does seem to support my train of thought.

I just saw that I accidentally didn't respond to the second thread I started and just went back and did that now. I don't regret or feel sorry for sharing with our mutual coworker. That is what led me to this point of considering taking more action. I'm posting my response here because I suppose it has relevance to this question:

A few hours after I talked to our mutual coworker, he went directly to the man I am bothered by and told him what I said. Apparently this coworker had been encouraging the guy to hold out hope for me all this time and essentially told him to stop doing that. I knew the next day that he was told something because he basically hid himself from me for the entire day when normally we are always in each other's line of sight. Apparently, he told the coworker that he wished I would have said all of that directly to him. I thought I had done that ages ago, but ok.

I almost immediately felt a surge of relief but also with that a surge of empathy. I spent the next couple of weeks continuing to consider whether I should reach out to him directly to explain and also apologize for some of the things I've said. I reached out yesterday and set a time to meet this weekend and feel a new wave of anxiety and panic, but I am hoping things go well. I couldn't sleep last night wondering if I've made a mistake in talking to him at all.



I did ask Yi another question: What approach will give me the best outcome for both of us moving on? 19.5 > 60

A measured approach I guess. I read several posts here from ex lovers who won't let go who received this line. I saw rosada call this hex "no good deed goes unpunished." I will likely be spinning with anxiety until at least tomorrow evening when I meet him for a drink and a conversation. I will take a break from sharing about it though. I plan to apologize, ask if there is anything I can clear up for him, and set clear boundaries. Wish me luck! And thank you for taking the time to respond to me. Outside perspectives are very helpful for me with emotionally fraught questions.
--
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-last-question-about-this-question-19-5-to-60

 

[Trojina]

A few hours after I talked to our mutual coworker, he went directly to the man I am bothered by and told him what I said. Apparently this coworker had been encouraging the guy to hold out hope for me all this time and essentially told him to stop doing that. I knew the next day that he was told something because he basically hid himself from me for the entire day when normally we are always in each other's line of sight. Apparently, he told the coworker that he wished I would have said all of that directly to him. I thought I had done that ages ago, but ok.

That's a good sign that he hid from you and it's good that you discovered the co worker had been encouraging him. Such encouragement has a big impact when a person wants to believe there's still hope.

I almost immediately felt a surge of relief but also with that a surge of empathy. I spent the next couple of weeks continuing to consider whether I should reach out to him directly to explain and also apologize for some of the things I've said. I reached out yesterday and set a time to meet this weekend and feel a new wave of anxiety and panic, but I am hoping things go well. I couldn't sleep last night wondering if I've made a mistake in talking to him at all.

I agree it's very difficult to know what the best move is. Some people take any communication at all as encouragement but if he is withdrawing from you it at least shows he has had a realisation about the impact he's having on you.

I did ask Yi another question: What approach will give me the best outcome for both of us moving on? 19.5 > 60

A measured approach I guess. I read several posts here from ex lovers who won't let go who received this line. I saw rosada call this hex "no good deed goes unpunished." I will likely be spinning with anxiety until at least tomorrow evening when I meet him for a drink and a conversation. I will take a break from sharing about it though. I plan to apologize, ask if there is anything I can clear up for him, and set clear boundaries. Wish me luck! And thank you for taking the time to respond to me. Outside perspectives are very helpful for me with emotionally fraught questions.

Well I think 19.5 indicates what it says - from Hilary's book

'Realization nearing.
Right for a great leader.
Good fortune'



So forget what anyone else says this is what Yi says and it's hugely reassuring IMO that your approach is a good one. Also the 42 reading showed you were on track.


I do hope this works out and you can carry on at work with no trouble now.

 

[radiofreewill]

Dear heatwave,

Please accept my apologies for my unhelpfulness? I'm sorry if I contributed to your anxiety?

I definitely think you are doing the right thing by meeting with the guy and clarifying your feelings?

I regret not asking for clarification, myself, before jumping to conclusions about the state of the situation? Please forgive me?

My hope is that your meeting will result in a ‘no harm/no foul’ agreement to respectfully walk away from the situation, and peacefully move on with your lives?

Lastly, I feel like there is room for compassion all the way around here? If the mutual co-worker has been encouraging the guy to hold out hope for the last six months, then it seems to me that there is room for misunderstanding by everyone?

I’m wishing you good luck with the meeting tomorrow! I hope it brings out the best in all involved?

Many Blessings,


Will

 

[heatwave]

No need for an apology Will, but I thank you for it anyway. I agree there is room for compassion all around, especially after learning that he has been encouraged all this time. I will definitely be trying to bring that to the table tomorrow and hope maybe to provide some closure and a way to coexist that is workable for everyone.

Being challenged on my level of compassion in these threads has been helpful in getting me to at least look at myself and see if there is a way I can handle things better while still honoring my space and feelings. So appreciate that and think I've made progress because of it.

P.S. Thanks again, Trojina. Things like this can feel isolating and like no one can see why it's difficult to be the object of someone's affection.