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Who are you ?

portakal

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The answer was 33. (without any changing lines)
Looked up for "retreat" in the Britannica.
The first registry is a geographical place in the USA.
The second is "Vassa"; rain-retreat-home for wandering budhist monks.
The answer comes to mean ?
-> i am a retreat for you/ like-minded ?
-> i have retreated and have become Yi ?
i would very much appreciate your opinions.
p.s.: I am not a native english speaker, hope i have bean able to mean what i meant :\
p.s.2: i am not even a beginner.
 
C

candid

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Allow me to welcome you, Portakal.

My first reaction to 33 was to laugh, imagining Yi saying: Back Off! I mean that could be our response if someone we're not well acquainted with stepped up to our face and asked, who are you? Its sorta personal.
happy.gif


However I think your own ideas on this are interesting. I especially feel the "I am a retreat for you" idea could be on the mark. It is common for religious groups or individuals to go on a retreat to seek meaning in their lives. This coordinates with the "Vassa" idea, where its used as a noun rather than a verb.

By the way, you communicate your ideas perfectly.

C
 

jte

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This makes me wonder, if we could "see" the [force/being/spirit/??] that we communicate with via the Yi the same way we see another person, how might our approach and attitude towards questioning be different.

Food for thought. Thanks, Portakal.

- Jeff
 
C

candid

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Jeff, typically that is exactly the way I relate to Yi when casting. Sometimes when it connects so personally I just LOL and then bow my head smiling to the human-like beingness of Yi. Its hard for me to imagine during those times that Yi is a non-personal force.
 

portakal

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Candid,
thank you for your frank and impartial opinion and guileless attitude. I feel i will be very happy to be here.
Jte,
I think we see each other, i do thank you.
I hope, i wont be a pain on the screen but i have to unburden of this thought; if iching is a book, it can be studied. Analysed. Commented upon. Like, say "the wealth of nations".
But if millions on this earth cast 3 coins frequently for a (scholarly look: "random") 1/64 possibility, then it is not (at least in the eyes of the casters) a "book". Perhaps it is a door, a retreat, a stargate (?). I had devoted 2 years of my life on technical analysis (of stocks), through those 2 years i worked and worked and (i assume) i learnt cognitively and came to very interesting (and successful) conclusions. Now what do i do ? Work ? Learn ? Memorize ? Eat and digest Chinese history or anachronism ? I am very inclined to say a solid "no" and the box of causes do contain my laziness.
I am though, too much aware of the subjectibility of the human mind and the right to be right while standing in different stances on the same subject. That's my candid idea (not the "candide").
I apologise if i have been rude for any of you.
Hope i will be prized with your words.
 

madversity

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hi. to me the Yi is our portal to the Cosmic Mind, the essence of the Law of Nature. i believe we can learn about our creator thru intimating ourselves with his creation. nature and the nature of things. of processes, of people, of societies. tank u. tali.
 

dobro p

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Portakal - I think the Yi's response is suggesting that you retreat or withdraw from your question.

I think it's good to wonder about the source of wisdom and to appreciate it and be grateful for it and to establish a good relationship with it. But knowing it directly is an experience that very people have, and when they do, it's a pretty shattering experience.

When you're happy to let the deepest/highest unknown remain unknown, that's respect and acceptance.
 

etyrnal

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I Ching Made Easy by Roderick and Amy Sorrell say that Hex. 33 has to do with going into retreat, and to:

<CENTER>"Focus on the matter at hand. Find out who you really are."</CENTER>

Also,

In numerology, 33 as a Master number is the Christ vibration. It requires sacrafice, responsibility and courage.

"... in Spiritual Numerology, the numbers 11, 22, and 33 are the three 'Master Numbers', the highest being 33 ... This highest of the master numbers was the age of the Master Initiate (Jesus) at his death, resurrection and ascension, giving more esoteric accents. The '33' symbolizes the highest spiritual conscious attainable by the human being." [Ibid., p. 161-2]

Thus, Jesus -- called here the "Master Initiate" -- was '33' at the time of His death; then, when the occultist adds the number '3' for the number of days Jesus spent in the tomb, he gets '333' as a calculation for the entire event through which the occultist considers Jesus to have passed. As van Burn gushes, "Christ lay in the tomb for three days after his crucifixion, a symbol for us of the steps man must take in order to be reborn. The number '333' speaks of death, resurrection, and ascension." [Ibid., p. 162-3; NOTE: You and I know that Jesus' ascension did not occur for 40 days after He arose, but evidently, occultists have not examined the Scriptures carefully!]

An occultist assigns the number '333' to "death, resurrection, and ascension", and consider it to be most powerful.

"Indeed, there is not death, as can be discerned clearly ... There is only Change! The message ... is that there is a balance which one can achieve by which one can escape from the wheel of change, from life to death. This balance can be found by becoming fully aware so that both worlds are equally real to one. This awareness is found when the third eye is fully opened, the eye the symbol of which is the number '33' ..."

"Each '3' of the number '33' can be seen to be three-fold in the same way as a triangle has three sides: 3+3+3 = 9. In the temples of Atlantis and Egypt the candidate for initiation passed through nine degrees, or rather the three-fold three degrees, into the mysteries. These degrees symbolized the re-entering of the womb in order, after the three times three months of gestation, to be reborn into the world of Spirit-consciousness."

Then, van Buren gets to the core meaning assigned to the number '33'. Prepare to be shocked and revolted:

"How many have really understood the words: 'Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God'." John 3:3. [Ibid.]

The highest meaning of the number, '33', is that it represents the highest spiritual consciousness to which man can attain, and that '333' represents the man-god becoming immortal through his "death, resurrection and ascension", just as the occultist considers Master Initiate Jesus to have done! At this point, the man-god experiences a fully-functional, visible Third Eye open up within him, an eye people can physically see. This is the personal aim of all occultists. They seek to escape the death/reincarnation cycle, so they never die again!
 

chrislofting

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As a member of the species, you are represented by ALL of the hexagrams of the I Ching where, LOCALLY, the context will re-sort the hexagrams into a string reflecting 'best fit' to 'worst fit'. Our consciousness, being more PARTS oriented but also focused on high bandwidth, the 'light', will focus its attention on the 'best fit' as if being THE fit rather than consider the whole string that is THE fit. This leads to 'incompleteness' in that the focus is only on a part of the whole.

Our consciousness has developed out of our speciesness in that the immediate, holistic, interactions of our unconscious, but less precise, speciesness, has given way to delayed interactions that are more precise. These delays allow us to refine our instincts/habits but in doing so can distort perspectives to shift to the use of universals that, being universals, can lack context-sensitivity - IOW the universals are considered LOCAL - they are not, they are GENERAL where the LOCAL adds colour an so difference and so LOCAL context-sensitivity.

By being able to map the IC qualities to the MBTI qualities (http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/MBTIX.htm) so we can identify the "Structure of Personality" as resident in all of us, but skewed given a mix of nature and nurture.

Our speciesness 'demands' team membership and so there is the encouragement to 'be' a particular type to fit-in with a team.

Our consciousness 'demands' individuation and so there is the encouragement to experiment in bringing-out the other types besides one's preferred type.

The I Ching allows us to do both (e.g. see http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/icproact.html)

We can identify a core personality using the IC and in doing so also map the interactions of that personality with all others as well as in all contexts.

This is possible since the IC is a specialisation, a metaphor usable to describe what out species-nature deals with - objects and relationships, differentiating and integrating, what and where.

'ancient texts' reflect attempts to describe 'in here' from an 'out there' perspective and so lacking precision in understanding and dependent on local conditions for sources of reference.

We now have a view of 'in here' that is rather good and validates the IC and at the same time allows us to bring out the IC, to express its full colours and in doing so reflect OUR full colours.

Chris.
 

portakal

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Dobra;

"When you're happy to let the deepest/ highest unknown remain unknown, that's respect and acceptance."
1. I am not happy.
2. I don't enjoy unknowns remaining unknown.
3. I don't believe in the "respect" notion. I prefer emphaty even if it unavoidably leads to shattering oneself or disappointment.
4. I accept the fact that you are alive, thank you.
 

portakal

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Etyrnal;

" the Master Initiate (Jesus) "
Solomon ? Not so ?

Thank you very much for the candid zeal. I am indebted.
 

portakal

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Chrislofting;

Please correct me, (please do)

1. 64 hexagrams represent (ALL OF ?) me all the time, nuance is in fitting best. So 33 was not the answer 1 to 64 was the (IS THE ?) answer.
2. (undriving around the bush) Through Yijin i am interacting with my (or OUR ?) unconscious, partially and holistically while being delayed.
3. I can identify the "Structure of Personality" (of the ONE ?)
4. I am interacting through Yijin with the human species? unconscious, can find out who i am and my position in the team with the help of the metaphoral 64 possibilitilies box (not s.thing out of this world, just a ...catalogue ?)
5. Ancient texts are... ancient, not suitable for reference.
6. We have IC+ now.

Thank you most much already.
 

chrislofting

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you wrote:
>
> 1. 64 hexagrams represent (ALL OF ?) me all the time, nuance
> is in fitting best. So 33 was not the answer 1 to 64 was the
> (IS THE ?) answer.

:) no. given 33 as the hexagram so the full sequence is more (read left to right, top to bottom, best fit to worst fit):

33 31 56 62 53 41 52 15
12 45 35 16 20 08 23 02
44 28 50 32 57 48 18 46
06 47 64 40 59 29 04 07
13 49 30 55 37 63 22 36
25 17 21 51 42 03 27 24
01 43 14 32 09 05 26 11
10 58 38 54 61 60 41 19

THAT full sequence is the answer. It can be broken up into octets and reflect particular expressions of general qualities. e.g.

33 31 56 62 53 41 52 15 high energy, most applicable set of hexagrams
12 45 35 16 20 08 23 02 next level of applicablity
44 28 50 32 57 48 18 46 ..
06 47 64 40 59 29 04 07 ..
13 49 30 55 37 63 22 36 ..
25 17 21 51 42 03 27 24 ..
01 43 14 32 09 05 26 11 ..
10 58 38 54 61 60 41 19 least energy, least applicable set of hexagrams.

Thus if 33 'fits' the context then its opposite, 19, wont (or more so it is the worst fit, the weakest fit, but still 'fitable')

This sequence of course depends on HOW the 33 was derived. If done so through 'random' methods then there is a 1 in 64 chance it is the 'best fit'! The GENERAL questions method can aid in narrowing the choice down to getting the correct 'best fit' BUT you need to be honest with the answers to the questions - so sometimes get someone else to do the answers from their perspective of the situation and compare the outcome. See http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/proact4.html

The main focus in the IC is asking a question in that the question becomes the 'universe of discourse' to which the whole IC is applied. EACH hexagram serves to describe some aspect of the 'universe of discourse' but to varying degrees in that the LOCAL context forces sorting the hexagrams qualitatively from best fit to worst fit.

> 2. (undriving around the bush) Through Yijin i am
> interacting with my (or OUR ?) unconscious, partially and
> holistically while being delayed.

With the I Ching you are using a FILTER to interpret reality - it comes with its own language but that language is a specialisation that represents a generalisation - that generalisation is how our unconscious species-nature derives meaning through a set of general qualities.


> 3. I can identify the "Structure of Personality" (of the ONE
> ?)

The I Ching is a specialisation for what the species uses to communicate, to derive meaning.
The MBTI is a specialisation for what the species uses to derive meaning.

BOTH specialisations use the SAME generalisation, the same set of core qualities, such that one can be used to flesh-out/represent the other. This ability reflects how we use analogies and metaphor to communicate.

The DIFFERENCES are in the labels. The SAMENESS is in what the labels represent; the qualities we FEEL when we hear/see the label. Thus, as species members we ALL share the feeling of 'wholeness'. WHAT that feeling is associated with in language etc is determined locally such that what is a whole to one culture is a part to another but the general feeling is constant.

Chris.
 
T

tashij

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asking yi 'who are you not' and i got a real thing or two. when i asked 'who are you' i got so many denials and jokes. very funny. maybe portakal is ready for stargate.
 

portakal

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Chrislofting;
Thank you.
So i hear you say (first 3 parts above) iching is not anything "much or over" than the reality in we live.
It is a filter language which is understandbly for communicating with "the" species.
Casting coins is ridiculous.
There are other filter systems based on the same structure (MBTI).
Glad you chose to bear with me.
 

portakal

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Tashij;
According to the "filter" you are [a gentle wind with a joyous lake] purposing to serve and increase. Thus, 6 -> 42.
Good to know you.
 

dobro p

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"I don't believe in the "respect" notion."

You don't have to believe in respect, because it doesn't require belief, and it isn't a notion. It's a very real way of relating to people and things.

But perhaps what you meant was that you don't think practising respect is a valuable approach?
 

portakal

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standart dictionary international edition
(Funk & Wagnalls)

notion: 1 a mental apprehension, an idea.
2...
3 Intention, inclination

respect:1 to have deferential regard for v.
2 to treat with propriety v.
3 a just regard N.
4 Courteous regard N.
5 Conformity to duty N.

regard: 1 consideration n.
2 ..
3 reference
4 aspect, view


No. I don't believe in the "respect" notion in "your words". Leaving unknown remaining unknown is not respect.
Sorry, for my lack of English.
 

lenardthefast

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Welcome to Clarity, Portakal,

I think you are a definite asset to this forum. I would be most interested in your interpretation of who I am. Thanks.

Namaste,
hex04.gif

Leonard
 

portakal

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Lenardthefast;

I am honored. Here we go then. I am obsessed with tele/ psycho-kinesis. I have never used drugs, use contact lenses and glasses though.
(-3.75)
2 days ago after another frustrating attempt about this obsession with (my idea) retreat, i was munching a cheap pizza with my wife at a table near the restaurant's huge window. Well ...
it stretched at the center to the out...a lot.
I dont even have a guess why or how, and nobody saw it.
But it happened and my head was empty.
That was very personal for me.
IT reads ending (dissolving) youthful folly for you. 4->59
Hope it bona fides you.
 
C

cheiron

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Hmm...

Just another perspective...

Hope it is not too unwarranted to comment here Mr L.
happy.gif


4 is also new beginnings... the young stream ploughing its own new course as it emerges from under the mountain.

Line 5 Hidden growth too... accepting ones limitations, yielding and using that as a strength.

59 Breaking up obstacles; dispelling illusions; melting the rigid; dispersing: Radiance indeed.

Sounds like a life?s journey... Does it resonate?

--Kevin
 

lenardthefast

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Thanks, Portakal,

Curiously, the process described in the cast seems to be currently transformative within my life. Youthful folly has been fun,and I would be unhappy to lose ALL of its implied naivete, but, things change and I am also ready for the new. Thanks for your insight.

Namaste,
Leonard

ps: Should you desire to hear them, I have several personal experiences of pschokinesis which I could share with you via private email.
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Kev,

Arrrrgh, matey! Yes, resonate it does. Like a bass string solidly struck by the thumb. I like it!
happy.gif


Namaste,
Leonard
 

portakal

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Cheiron,
May i, for the sake of the night <- ongoing, cast and ask who you are and write it here, please ?
 
C

cheiron

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Dear Wise Portakal

I am the one who cleans the floor this side of the Stargate - determined not to pass through it until the last has gone
happy.gif


Cast away

biggrin.gif


--Kevin

(PS The floor is wet please take care whilst passing through Sir)
 
C

cheiron

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Dear Too Han

So that you don't think my greeting was sarcastic... I too did some readings to perceive you the clearer...
happy.gif


You seem to have cut loose a great constraint!?

Greetings

zen2.gif


Repect

--Kevin
 

portakal

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Cheiron; Graceful man of innocent nature,

I am and all the readers are aware that i am the most "unwise guy" here and in many other places as well.
This page began with an unburdening thought of mine, yi cant be analysed scholarly assuming it is more than a catalogue/ book.
Neither should it be interpreted, i dare say.
It says man of innocent or degenerate nature for you (25->22) accompanied with the grace denotion, then you are a Graceful man of innocent nature, that oughta be all, folks.
Every dog had his day.
 

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