Who can speak on foxes? (64)

[moss elk]

So,

I've come to recognize in my experience of 64 that there is an aspect
of getting over an initial failure and continuing on toward the goal.

So when a fox wets its tail does it run back to where it came from?
(Losings its resolve to cross the river)

Any fox herders here?

 

[pocossin]

Any fox herders here?

When I kept poultry, I also kept foxes, so many terminal encounters for Mr. Fox.

Hatcher:

64.X
The flame is positioned on top of the water
Not yet complete
The noble young one, accordingly, is heedful and discerning
so that things remain straightforward

That is, Noble Young One is foxily alert.

64.0
Not Yet Complete
Fulfillment
The little fox is almost across the half-frozen stream
To soak that tail
Is not a direction with merit

But Fox is not totally alert, or they would not have been taken in my traps. Too focused on chickens. As I read this hexagram, the river is death. Fox spirit (gui) is on his last legs. Visually, the hexagram is the head of a fox inverted. To turn Mr. Fox upright:

▄▄  ▄▄ ears
▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄  ▄▄ eyes
▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄  ▄▄ teeth
▄▄▄▄▄▄

There is a little to do before the business is ended, but not much.

 

[anemos]

So,

I've come to recognize in my experience of 64 that there is an aspect
of getting over an initial failure and continuing on toward the goal.

So when a fox wets its tail does it run back to where it came from?
(Losings its resolve to cross the river)

Yeah, for me too. Or a warning to slow down a bit to avoid failure or accidents or just slow down

 

[sooo]

Or it just detours toward thicker ice, or quail rather than domestic chickens. But even quail have their own tricks to foil the fox, but they are not terminal, just a bit frustrating. Of fox mortality, I'd imagine an insignificant number drown in frozen rivers. Even there, a fox is not a fox. There are large behavioral differences between a red and gray fox, for example.

But to the metaphor, I think 64 speaks mostly to cunning behavior to hasten a process when haste makes waste. I agree with slowing down, looking around, and using all ones senses, particularly patience and prudence. I do not think it dictates whether to continue ahead or turn back, as the latter may be the more dangerous.

 

[Trojina]

Hilary recently mentioned to me on a private forum that she had found a news article about the number of foxes found drowned in rivers. So if foxes do often drown in rivers, she was saying it adds much more seriousness to the foxes in Yi.

Ah just re checked what she wrote. The foxes died because their wet tails had frozen solid to the ice so if not rescued they would drown.

I think to try to make a crossing at the wrong time can be disastrous

 

[sooo]

Hilary recently mentioned to me on a private forum that she had found a news article about the number of foxes found drowned in rivers. So if foxes do often drown in rivers, she was saying it adds much more seriousness to the foxes in Yi.

Ah just re checked what she wrote. The foxes died because their wet tails had frozen solid to the ice so if not rescued they would drown.

I think to try to make a crossing at the wrong time can be disastrous

That's interesting, never knew. I was just searching and found this. It appears to have been in Germany or nearby. I'd be interested in that article of Hilary's. That does cast a different light on the seriousness of the image.

 

[anemos]

O
when haste makes waste. I.

I think to try to make a crossing at the wrong time can be disastrous

I recall two reading . One was about the bad habit when i read book to look through pages . in the middle around the end... its angst and spoils the fun yet have to try a lot not to do it. Now, that doesn't happen when I study my textbooks because there are the learning points at the beginning so the " anxiety" what it will be presented goes away.

The other reading was about , again my haste" to keep painting when the previous colors had not dry ( was a special technique) . I could see myself destroying the painting and at the same time running to reach the other shore( finish it) Asked Yi just to give me something to ponder why I do that . A laconic 64.

Now that image, Bruce posted, is a helpful visual to have in mind. If you can find the article , would be nice, Trojan. Sounds interesting !

 

[Trojina]

Yes I've tried to nudge Hilary to post a link or something to the story here....but she may not see it if she's busy.

 

[pocossin]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=foxes+frozen+in+ice&qpvt=foxes+frozen+in+ice&FORM=IGRE#a
-- many pictures of frozen foxes

 

[sooo]

Have met a share of stone cold foxes.

Winter does claim its share of all sort of wildlife, and homeless humans as well. No one and nothing gets out alive.

I admit to having a soft spot for fury canines though. It was the wolf who found easier meals though cooperation with humans, and man's best friends came from such mutually beneficial relationships, or at least mine did.

I wonder if foxes in particular have a perception problem with icy waters.

 

[Trojina]

I have taken the link from wikiwing hoping Hilary won't mind

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Stranded-gray-fox-gets-a-big-lift-917758.php

what happens is the tail gets frozen to the ice so the fox cannot get free, is trapped, so drowns.

She wrote in wiki

This is a story of a river-crossing fox that had to be rescued because its wet tail was frozen solid to the ice. Most of the fox is plush, dry and fluffy; only the tail is wet. It must have been weighed down by the water, dragged along the ice, and frozen on. The fox, trapped on the disintegrating ice, would surely have drowned if not rescued. (Foxes are sometimes found dead in frozen rivers.) We should take seriously the plight of the fox 'not continuing to the end' (Tuanzhuan).

so it's easy imagine...the tail being long gets wet, when wet drags on the ice and gets frozen sold, then the fox is trapped. Poor fox ! Getting the tail wet is a big deal then since it's lethal to the fox.

 

[Trojina]

Amusing the lengths they went to to rescue it since elsewhere they are hunted as pests

 

[Trojina]

So,

I've come to recognize in my experience of 64 that there is an aspect
of getting over an initial failure and continuing on toward the goal.

So when a fox wets its tail does it run back to where it came from?
(Losings its resolve to cross the river)

Any fox herders here?

so returning the original post question, when a fox wets it's tail it puts itself at risk on ice and should get away from it. In summer I guess it wouldn't matter much but the fox with wet tail in Yi must surely refer to the danger to the fox when it has a wet tail ?

 

[pocossin]

I wonder if foxes in particular have a perception problem with icy waters.

A speculation: the fox can see fish under thin ice, is led onto the ice, and falls through.

 

[anemos]

I needed to finish something and didn't have much time for the paints to dry so I took the hair dryer and "helped " the process a bit. It worked and I recall seeing that in a video where some experts using a heat gun. if i recall, it was Bruce that once said 64 was about seeking the help of an expert.

So, based on that experience, there is a lots of "as if" in fox's attitude. I was restless and reckless yet, there was a way to speed up the process. The tip of some more knowledgeable than I am , allow to procced without any threat for a damage. I see now 64 as boldness vs flexibility too.

 

[sooo]

if i recall, it was Bruce that once said 64 was about seeking the help of an expert.

Actually, I mentioned that about hex 63 - seeing someone with complete knowledge and skill to complete the job. I can't say I'm completely confident in that but it did seem applicable on more than one such occasion. I don't view 63 as always referring to what is already complete but also something that has already been committed to completing, no turning back; rather than 64, which is still undetermined. LiSe has made reference to 64 in art as something implied or suggestive, rather then something which has a final and finite meaning, even after the piece has been completed. In that respect 64 and 63 can refer to a state of mind rather than being literal only, a hmmm rather than an ahhhh.

 

[anemos]

ahh, yes. 63. cross my mind too, but was too 64 and didn't check it . The little fox - older fox of 63 . yes !!
64 could ask for another form of "intelligence" as , like you said, 64 its a "flux state" It ain't over till is over" its part of 64 messages. as for the other shore , its another milestone ( not always but imo oftentimes its like that)

 

[moss elk]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

I guess what i really wanted to talk about was the unfinished business aspect of 64:
getting over unsuccessful attempts: until one actually crosses the river or bridge.

In this story i left out the fact that before going to the market the first time
i did a reading about it and got 64 unchanging. (The issue wouldn't be resolved in the 1st attempt)
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?18329-40-6-gt-64
40.6>64 (2nd attempt attempt had progress but didnt resolve, only resolved on the 3rd encounter in front of the judge)


So, i wonder if the difference between our metaphor fox friend and a person is that a person can keep on trying until they get it right, until they actually cross the river.

 

[moss elk]

Just noticed Legges commentary on 63.1:
Legge:*Line one represents the time immediately after the successful completion of something -- a time for resting and being quiet. For a season at least, all movement should be hushed. Hence we have the symbolism of a driver trying to stop his carriage, and a fox who has wet his tail, and will not attempt the stream again.

 

[sooo]

So, i wonder if the difference between our metaphor fox friend and a person is that a person can keep on trying until they get it right, until they actually cross the river.

I think it depends on how important it is to the fox. If her cubs are waiting on the other side, I suspect she'll keep searching for a better place to cross over. If it's just wandering and hunting, he or she may decide the grass is no greener on the other side, and wait for it to freeze solidly or thaw more thoroughly, depending upon the season.

Draws me back to Maria's example of, shall I wait for the paint to dry before continuing, or use the wet paint as a technique to create the impression I'm looking for.

The decisive moment for me, when 64 turned into 63, was when I cut the lead hot wire to the pickups inside the guitar. The second I snipped it, 64 became 63, and I had become committed to completing the job, following through to the end - even though it had not been completed yet. That's a point of disagreement with some regarding 63's meaning. When I received 63 after I snipped that wire, it seemed like a crazy answer, until I thought of it in these terms of being committed vs procrastinating. The procrastination was over, it was too late for that. I suppose, metaphorically, the same would apply to the fox.

 

[anemos]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

I guess what i really wanted to talk about was the unfinished business aspect of 64:
getting over unsuccessful attempts: until one actually crosses the river or bridge.

I lost a post yesterday commenting on that. The brief version is yes, sometimes its like that. In my case there was 64 as the angst to make real the image I had in mind but also was "not yet" in regards to the new technique and materials I was using. It was a mistake that I apply that in my "final" booklet and not experiment first in scrap paper.

I like the interplay of 64-63 as Bruce brought here. Personally I can't see the one with out the other. They are somehow intertwine Thinking of sumi-e painting also. Its Brutal !!! one mistake and you have to throw the whole painting. It need concentration and move slowly- there is a dialogue between the painter and the painting. Once you decide to draw a line , that very moment need determination and no space for doubts and such. its funny because observing a line didn't went well you can see the exact sec you lost concentration or your hesitations ; a tad left or a tad right ? . When the brush touches the paper, the line is not yet and at the same time you have already cross the river. there is a line that "appears" gradually , but actually its already done.

 

[sooo]

there is a line that "appears" gradually , but actually its already done.

Nice moving picture. Rather like life's Book of Changes itself. Also reminds me of the Confucius quote: To know the seed, that is divine indeed.

 

[anemos]

Thank You

that's what Yi ultimately is about isn't it ? The Seed. I love that saying of Confucius and I love the Life's book of change ( if you don't mind changing the capital letters of your saying). I see Mrs Life , as the total of human beings writing a book together about "seeds" and how to grow them and how to deal with wild weeds.