Who is The Sage?

[simonwildcat]

Hi everyone,

I just did a reading regarding a relationship question and threw Hexagram 39. The advice I take as keeping still like the mountain seems perfectly inline with what my intuition was also telling me, but this line always puzzles me:

It is favorable to see the Great Man
(or sometimes The Sage in other translations).

Who IS this great man? Is he an outer influence or an inner one? I find it hard to think of an actual person who could be this one.

Kind Regards to all,
Simon
:bows:

 

[xuesongyu]

Hello friend:

I am a Chinese I Ching scholar. According to my translation, this code should be "It’s a good time for a great man to show himself", which is similar to the other translations. In fact, this code has two meanings:

1. When you are in trouble, if someone, who is stronger than you, comes to help you, he will be the "great man".

2. When you are in trouble, you should try your best to overcome difficulties, which means that you should try to become a "great man". Like the saying goes, "Heaven helps those who help themselves. "

---------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of I Ching: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1500859788
I Ching Codes Predicting the Future: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPT8G0

 

[simonwildcat]

Ah thanks for that reply! Very interesting. Its a big difference to say 'go and see him' and 'its a good time for him to appear'...

That was from the Wilhelm version that I quoted; I'm not sure what people here think of that version, I always thought it was the classic one to have.

 

[anemos]

Hi

There are some theads discussing the questions you pose. Here is one of them. Many good points.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?5259-It-furthers-one-to-see-the-great-man

I particularly like the account Jung shares :


T

hese simple people are hunters who live in isolated family groups , so far from one another that they have not been able to evolve tribal customs or collective religious beliefs and ceremonies . In his lifelong solitude the Naskapi hunter has to rely on his own inner voices and unconscious revelations ; he has no religious teachers who tell him what he should believe, no rituals , festivals, or customs to help him along. In his basic view of life , the soul of man is simply an "inner companion, " whom he calls "my friend" or Mista'peo, meaning "Great Man. "

From "Jung - Man and his symbols"

Perhaps you'll find it useful, especially in the context of hex 39, where we are advised to return to ourselves and where we have friends... "friends" can be internal or external ones yet , in order to get the help we need ,we have to turn inside.

Sometimes, when I have to 39, I meet people from my past, who's words and generally what I have experience has become part of who I am now...so it's not easy, imo, to say, the great man is only internal or external. To me, it's has been helpful instead of trying to track the great man, is to focus on the qualities of this man has and who they can help me. IOW, sometimes "seeing" is the operative word in yi's advise...that , could be, the path to 'find' him.

 

[simonwildcat]

Thanks for that - I read the other posts, they make a lot of sense.

 

[xuesongyu]

Hello friend:

In Chinese, this code is "利见大人", "利" means "good", "大" means "great", 人 means "man". But "见" has two meanings in classical Chinese: "see" or "appear". So my translation "It’s a good time for a great man to show himself" includes both of these two meanings.

I Ching was writen in classical Chinese, so it is hard to be translated(even for Chinese). In English version of I Ching, some translations are incorrect. That's why I spent 3 years to translate the full text of I Ching into English.

---------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of I Ching: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1500859788
I Ching Codes Predicting the Future: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPT8G0

Ah thanks for that reply! Very interesting. Its a big difference to say 'go and see him' and 'its a good time for him to appear'...

That was from the Wilhelm version that I quoted; I'm not sure what people here think of that version, I always thought it was the classic one to have.

 

[bradford]

It is incorrect to translate daren (大人), the great man, as "the sage."
The daren is more secular. He has political, social or economic standing,
or else is a person of remarkable maturity as a human being.
Shengren (聖人) is the wise, sagacious, reverent or even holy person.
He does not occur in the Zhouyi, but only comes into the Yijing in the Ten Wings,
beginning in the Tuan Zhuan of Gua 04.

 

[xuesongyu]

Hello friend:

I could not agree more. In I Ching, there are only "大人(great man)". But in the book Ten Wings, which was written by Confucius and his students, you can see many "聖人". Why? Because Ten Wings discusses the social meanings of I Ching.

---------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of I Ching: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1500859788
I Ching Codes Predicting the Future: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPT8G0

It is incorrect to translate daren (大人), the great man, as "the sage."
The daren is more secular. He has political, social or economic standing,
or else is a person of remarkable maturity as a human being.
Shengren (聖人) is the wise, sagacious, reverent or even holy person.
He does not occur in the Zhouyi, but only comes into the Yijing in the Ten Wings,
beginning in the Tuan Zhuan of Gua 04.