Why are there no 7's and 8's?

[lienshan]

By the way, one thing always puzzled me - is there a reason that Yi gives only the changing lines in its original text, i.e., only 6's and 9's? Why are there no 7's and 8's?

I don't want to be offtread in the beheaded dragon's tread, so here's my current answer:

The 6's and 9's are the changing lines of the Zhouyi.
The 7's and 8's are the steady lines of the Zhouyi.

The 7's and 8's are the changing lines of the Guicang.
The 5's and 6's are the steady lines of the Guicang.

The 5's and 8's are the changing lines of the Lianshan.
The 6's and 7's are the steady lines of the Lianshan.

 

[Sparhawk]

In all fairness to Vakos, and everyone reading here, it should be disclaimed that there's not tangible evidence of what is being said above about the Guicang and Lianshan.

Dixit,

 

[lienshan]

"The existence of the method of the divination in the Yin dynasty,
which used 'seven' and 'eight' instead of 'nine' and 'six' for divination,
seems accepted by all scholars."

http://zhouyi.sdu.edu.cn/english/newsxitong/selectedPapers/2006517175846.htm

The question is, how to understand this specific Zuo zhuan divination method too discussed in the link:

"In the ninth year of Duke Xiang in Zuo zhuan, it states Mu Jiang had a dream in the eastern palace
and she went for divination, she got 'the "eight" of the hexagram gen'. Du Yu's exegesis said:
"Gui cang used 'seven' and 'eight' for divination, so it said 'the "eight" of the hexagram gen' ".
Kong Yingda's commentary said: "Zhouyi's divination based on changing, while the other two kinds
of divination based on stability (unchanged). The divination got 'the "eight" of the hexagram gen',
it meant the second stroke of the hexagram gen didn't change, and it is the 'eight' ".

The diviner of the story says, the 'the eight' is what remains, when gen (52) becomes sui (17).
That divination corresponds to the Zhouyi divination 52.1,3,4,5,6 with five changing lines.
It could be the Guicang divination method, but could also be the Lianshan divination method?
The diviners at the time mastered all three divination methods, so both methods are possible!

 

[Sparhawk]

"The existence of the method of the divination in the Yin dynasty, which used 'seven' and 'eight' instead of 'nine' and 'six' for divination,
seems accepted by all scholars."

snip


The diviner of the story says, the 'the eight' is what remains, when gen (52) becomes sui (17). That divination corresponds to the Zhouyi divination 52.1,3,4,5,6 with five changing lines. It could be the Guicang divination method, but could also be the Lianshan divination method? The diviners at the time mastered all three divination methods, so both methods are possible!

I don't have any issue with the fact that 'seven' and 'eight' were used in divination. There are records of it. I have an issue with stating as a fact that they had anything to do with the Lianshan or even that we know how they were used in the Guicang. Speculation should be stated as such, that's all.

 

[willowfox]

Guicang:

After the traditionally recorded Xia Dynasty was overthrown by the Shang Dynasty, the hexagrams are said to have been re-deduced to form Gui Cang (《歸藏》 Gūi Cáng; also called Gui Cang Yi), and the hexagram responding (坤 kūn) became the first hexagram. Gui Cang may be literally translated into "return and be contained", which refers to earth as the first hexagram itself indicates. At the time of Shang's last king, Zhou Wang, King Wen of Zhou is said to have deduced the hexagram and discovered that the hexagrams beginning with Initiating (乾 qián) revealed the rise of Zhou. He then gave each hexagram a description regarding its own nature, thus Gua Ci (卦辭 guà cí, "Explanation of Hexagrams").

 

[willowfox]

I'm writing an online manuscript to a book. The readers can read, while the book is written. I know, that many of You will find some of my informations very interesting, so I look foreward to discuss matters with You.

I write on a blogger http://lienshan.blogspot.com/

Put in short: I've reconstructed an 3950 years old oracle called Lien Shan. This reconstruction explains, how Stonehenge I was used as a tidetable 5100 years ago.

The pre-oracle was invented in Hermopolis 4500 years ago in Egypt during the middle kingdom and is today known as the Book of Thoth or the Ogdoad.

3950 years ago the woman Yü developed the oracle and created a spectacular system of signs in colour and shape ... it's just a simple tidetable ... but to me it looks like, what the indians call the Great Spirit.

Is this a real Chinese oracle or not?

 

[lienshan]

Is this a real Chinese oracle or not?

The Yi, the Yarrowstalkoracle, Lianshan+Guicang+Zhouyi, is a real chinese oracle!

But: Did a chinese invent the oracle?

The trigrams have "non-chinese" names.
The beginning of "chinese" is official the beginning of the Xia dynasty.
The first "chinese" (Xia dynasty) king was Qi, official the son of Yu the Great.
Yu the Great tamed the flood and the numerology of the 8 trigrams can be used as a 2 tides timetable!

The tides of China's northern pacific coast are unusual; only 1 tide a day.
That'll say people living there could only observe 1 tide a day not knowing that there are 2 tides a day.

Numerology and 2 tides tidetables were already developed about 5000-3000 BC in England and Egypt.
The 56 socalled "Aubrey holes" of Stonehedge is only one example.
All members of the egypt numerology-sect worshipping "the Ogdoad" (the eight) were driven out of
Egypt 2150 BC and fled to the east into Asia.

Exavacations of the Xia capitol Erlitou have shown, that the nobility were dressed like "shamans"

 

[lienshan]

I don't have any issue with the fact that 'seven' and 'eight' were used in divination.

Here's one issue for you: http://www.daoisopen.com/B1toB3Chapters594820.html

The number of characters in the <== reading direction lines are 667778
667778 correspond to Zhouyi hexagram 32 HENG and the Guicang hexagram 32 HENG WO

<== 6 : zhi4 ren2 shi4 tian1 mo4 ruo4
<== 6 : se4 fu2 wei2 se4 shi4 yi3
<== 7 : zao3 shi4 yi3 zao3 bei4 shi4 wei4
<== 7 : zhong4 ji1 de2 zhong4 ji1 de2 ze2
<== 7 : wu2 bu4 ke4 wu2 bu4 ke4 ze2
8 ==> : mo4 zhi1 qi2 ji2 mo4 zhi1 qi2 ji2
8 ==> : ke3 yi3 you3 yu4 you3 yu4 zhi1 mu3
8 ==> : ke3 yi3 chang2 jiu4 shi4 wei4 shen1 gen1
<== 8 : gu4 di3 chang2 sheng1 jiu4 shi4 zhi1 dao4

Heaven's office and the Man's administration are not identical.
Because, is it stingy? Only the Man is stingy!
Is correct speaking "Perfect Good Morning"? Use the correct "Good Morning"!
Only Righteousness, the accumulated virtue of magnitude, accumulates muchness.
Only the Arrogance, not the nonexisting superiority, is not nonexistent.
No one knows these extremes not knowing their narrowness.
Valid is "the existing state of the existing states is their mother".
Valid is "long time ago of long". Correct spoken "a deep root".
Dao is observingly "the prolonged birth of the length of a rooted solidification".

Is the divination method used the Zhouyi? Try compare 32.5,6 to the text.

If the divination method used is the Guicang or the Lianshan,
then the first line (the 8) is what's left, when 32 HENG WO becomes 20 KUAN,
that means "Contemplation", which match the important last line of the text.

Speculation should be stated as such, that's all.

The editing chinese scholars were not able to read the Guodian text as is?
So their speculation arrived at t.ex. a maybe omitted character?
It's funny, that scholars in a state without freedom of speech did not considered, that the Guodian texts
were written at a time with likewise no freedom of speech, because it forces people to code their texts!

The content of the first two lines of the text translated above is a criminal lese-majesty = execution

 

[lienshan]

And here are the last 41 characters of the Guodian chapter 2:
(I will spare you for my poor translation of the first straightout part)

8 <== xian hou zhi xiang sui shi yi sheng
7 <== ren ju wang wei zhi shi xing
6 <== bu yan zhi jiao wan wu
7 <== zuo er fu shi wei er fu
6 <== shi cheng er fu ju fu wei
7 <== fu ju shi yi fu qu

The holy use correct follow together go to behind in front.
The job of execution goes to act vanish the appointed Man.
The tenthousand teaching's subject goes to say "or not?"
Thrust not and act to have not and grow.
Only men dwell not and finish succesfully.
Separate not use correct dwell not.

876767 correspond to the Zhouyi hexagram 63.2,4 CHI CHI

876767 correspond to the Guicang/Lianshan hexagram 63 JUAN
8 is that which remains, when 63 JUAN becomes 40 HSIEH

http://www.daoisopen.com/A9toA10Chapters232.html

 

[lienshan]

Kong Yingda's commentary said:
"Zhouyi's divination based on changing,
while the other two kinds of divination based on stability (unchanged)."

The divinations I research do only contain the numbers 6, 7 and 8.
If 8 is representing "stability", that which is left when a hexagram changes to another hexagram,
then the 6 and 7 do by logic represent "changes".

That'll say:
The only divination numbers that don't result in one hexagram changing into another hexagram,
are the specific numbers 888888

That'll say:
888888 need an extraordinary explanation like the surplus of the Zhouyi hexagram 1:
"When all the lines are nines, it means:
There appears a flight of dragons without heads. Good fortune."

If the above is the Guicang/Lianshan divination method, then the 5s and the 7s count equal.
5's and 7' occur in late Shang and early western Zhou bone/bronze divination founds,
while later founds look like 1's ... a common symbol of both 5 and 7 in this divination method?