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Why is she so depressed?? 24.4.5 17

moses

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Ok Guys,

Quick situation.

I love this woman. She loves me. She is and always has been stubborn. So am I. (Although not nearly as much (?) ) :)

Anyway, we've been experiencing "issues" for the last year. But really, who the hell doesn't? Anyway we were. We split up.... for real(ish) this time(ish) 5 weeks ago. I hear she is very depressed.

Over the course of the day I asked these questions:

1)In order to create success in a romantic relationship with my ex, what is my best step forward? Yi said: 60.4 to 58

2)How does my ex perceive me romantically at this time? And Yi said: 58.2 to 17

and 3) Why is my ex so depressed? The Yi said: 24.4.5 to 17.


Now just for the record, I'd have her back in a heartbeat. But she is , as far as I can tell after 3 years, is not that kind of girl. (Stubborn). I, on the other hand, right or wrong, have become humbled by the years and in turn become quite adept at firmly planting my tail between my legs. :)

Can anyone please help me to understand what Yi is trying to tell me please??? I approach with nothing but a desire to learn.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance!!! Thankyou,

Moses
 
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canislulu

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I just returned from a walk where I was contemplating how Hexagram 60 is on the other side of Hexagram 59. When you asked what would happen next you received hexagram 59. It makes sense to me that when you ask about the best step forward that you receive Hexagram 60.

Hillary Barrett, in her book, says of this pair ---- "Things cannot end with spreading out" (59) "and so Measuring" (60) follows. When artificial limits have dissolved away, it's time to develop organic, authentic ones. People need boundaries."

I am wondering if the "issues" you mention have something to do with the way each of you have been stubbornly negotiating your boundaries. There may be a way to do this more naturally. Perhaps hexagram 59 in this situation is about dissolving the artificial walls and limits that may have been created out of fear or misunderstanding. Line 4 of 60 says "Peaceful measures. Creating success." Perhaps you need to speak to her clearly about what you want and need and then listen to her voice the same. Sometimes we can make assumptions about what the other one needs. And sometimes the other person hasn't understood what we thought we've been communicating about our own needs.

60.4 - Patiently and peacefully articulating your hopes and needs
then 58.4 "negotiating opening, not yet at rest, containing the affliction, brings rejoicing." (Barrett)

58.2 seems to say that she perceives you as being able to be a "clear channel for honest communication where people are wholly present. Where you can speak with true conviction of what is valuable here, regrets dissolve away." (I am quoting from Hillary's commentary on the line in her book, I Ching/ Walking your Path, Creating your Future.)

Could you reach internal clarity and then schedule a Face to Face/Heart to Heart meeting to Articulate and Openly Express needs and wants to see if there is common ground and value for sustaining a romantic relationship.

Somehow 60.4 > 58 doesn't conjure up an image of a tail planted between the legs. What I see is a dog lovingly offering a bamboo stick. And then perhaps willing to play "fetch" and Joyously Dancing
 
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meng

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Over the course of the day I asked these questions:

1)In order to create success in a romantic relationship with my ex, what is my best step forward? Yi said: 60.4 to 58

2)How does my ex perceive me romantically at this time? And Yi said: 58.2 to 17

and 3) Why is my ex so depressed? The Yi said: 24.4.5 to 17.


Now just for the record, I'd have her back in a heartbeat. But she is , as far as I can tell after 3 years, is not that kind of girl. (Stubborn). I, on the other hand, right or wrong, have become humbled by the years and in turn become quite adept at firmly planting my tail between my legs. :)

Can anyone please help me to understand what Yi is trying to tell me please??? I approach with nothing but a desire to learn.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance!!! Thankyou,

Moses

You'll achieve a certain amount of unity.

One thing that continued to ask for attention is the 24.4,5 - 17 (and 2x more 17) reading for why she is depressed. The story is that there is one line returning alone, and the other line is returning with a noble heart. And 17 also going inward, withdrawing from the affair to get some beauty sleep.

There's a bit of treadmill feeling to it that I don't care for, like the movie Groundhog Day. But that's just my subjective impression.
 

moses

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Thankyou so much for your inputs CallingCrane and Meng,

And kudos for remembering 59 from an earlier reading Meng!(Although 'Long Yi' had a very different view of things) The situation does seem to be levelling out in some strange way. And with your insights, (which I have to say, were alot more positive than I expected), I should be able to lead the situation to make some headway.

By the way Meng, I do see your point about the groundhog aspect of the 24.4.5. That said, I've always been a little confused by 24.4 (Returning Alone).... I always read this to mean: 'that in a basically dark environment, but they have a connection with man of good/better nature that allows then to remove themselves from the dark'. What I wonder is, that isn't the returning alone a return from the inferior people toward a deeper connection with someone of worth?
And maybe the 24.5 (noble return) could be a progression from 24.4. (?)

And I do agree about her needing her 'beauty sleep' from the affair Meng. So there will be no 'rushing in' or 'rushing back' methinks. As 60.4 suggests and as Calling Crane so aptly quoted from Hilary's book, "Patiently and Peacefully articulating hopes and needs bring remorse"

Right then, back into the fray (so to speak).

Thankyou so much for your inputs CallingCrane and Meng.....So Very Much appreciated!

Moses
 
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mirian

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Hello moses,

Just to add a quick note to what has been said regarding Hex 60. It has really worked out well for me in a relationship scenario. So, here is how it goes. You are building a partnership and there are two key elements - communication and negotiation. There is a need to talk openly and sincerely, sharing your thoughts about what you expect from the relationship, how you can make things work for you both. This is not an "intellectual" discussion :D It is a natural communication between people who love each other.;) Along with that, there is a lot of negotiation, when you make your personal agreements. That could involve more complex issues or just those small day-to-day things. So, yes it is about creating boundaries, but through communicating and negotiating as a couple.

Hope it helps a bit.:bows:
 

arabella

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Hi there. 60.4 says to me that it's not about you, it's about her. Your next step is to let her work her way through it. In hex 58.2 it seems that she knows, or will eventually know, that at least you are the person she can talk to. She will come to that place but perhaps, for some reason, she has found that threatening in the past? Maybe afraid she reveals herself too much and then regrets it? It's maybe a double-edged sword to her that you two are so ABLE to communicate? There is something in her that holds back and second-guesses how comfortable she is with you? I don't think she's so much stubborn as afraid of what you allow and how it makes her feel.

I think she is depressed because she knows the door is open so far as you're concerned. If you slammed it in her face it would be easy for her to walk away. But she keeps coming back because she can and she knows it's the best deal in town. You give her all the room in the world. There is really nothing wrong! But inside her that is ominous somehow? You are fair and straightforward -- she can always come back -- there's a downside to that? But emotionally there is to her for some reason. Maybe she'll figure out where her limitation is that prevents a good relationship from being good?

Yeah, Meng, there's something disturbing about it. But could be hopefull if she gets it together and realises she is safe with Moses and that's really quite good. If she relaxes and says a great relationship is terrific, that is the way forward. I think you're doing all the right stuff Moses. Don't hurt yourself, but just being who you are should point up that the emotional drawbacks that prohibit success are on her side of the equation.
 

moses

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Dear Arabella,

How you could get all of that information from the reading is phenomenal!

I think you summed it up incredibly well.... the whole last year of the relationship to a degree. The only difference from your appraisal and mine is the fact that I was blaming myself the whole time. Looking for what I was doing wrong. Soul Searching. And believe me, she didn't get there on her own, she's had a tough time of it over the years too, in other relationships.

So you think give her space to work her way through it? I haven't seen her for a fair while now, seems strange to sit back and do nothing.

What you were saying about having an open door a downside for her is not a surprise either... in a way its psychological. Maybe if you know the door is closing you'll be more inclined to get yourself together. But maybe I'm moving away from the Yi at this point(?). Or indeed, could that be the limitation needed(?)

You are both right, there is something disturbing about it.... Now I know for sure there is negative speak about me from her 2 "friends"(one guy one girl). The Yi has made this very clear to me (and why?? I donot know. Jealousy and competiton would be my take).

But the Yi also advised me I can do nothing about that at this point. So as you say, hopefully she will work out that progress and success lie on her side of the equation.

Thank you so much for your insights Arabella. So spot on, really rang a bell in my head!!!
Only thing is, it feels like I have been doing 'nothing' for ages. Doesn't quite feel right.

Moses
 

moses

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Hey Miriam,

Thanks for your input too!! Only thing is, for that to happen, the two people in the situation have to accept that there is a relationship in the first place :) .... We are so not quite there... Or maybe we could be (?).... I guess what I am saying is, that this conversation could be better had after we accept that we are involved at all. Or at very least have a good old side splitting laugh first!!! :)

It's all just been heavy heavy heavy! :) She can be heavy. I can too. Lightening up could easily be the next step for me in terms of limitation (60.4)

It's worth considering.... All heavy is not much of a turn on :)

What do you think?

Moses
 

canislulu

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Some more thoughts on 60.4 regarding a question of how to proceed towards "romance". This morning I was contemplating this in terms of what Stephen Karcher teaches about "crosslines". He not only looks at the "answer" hexagram, but also looks at the hexagrams in between that lead to the "relating" hexagram. With 60.4 that would be: 60.4 [58.4: 57.3] 59.3 . If you read the text for these lines in order (leaving commentaries aside), in the context of "romance" it is enough to make someone blush! A bit "R-rated" one might say, and unlikely to happen if one hasn't been communicating with one's "X".
 
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moses

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Hi Calling Crane,

Oh dear.....

I read them! Are you suggesting that someone else has been "communicating" with my ex? :)

Ok, so I see you mean how I should progress, right?

Moses
 
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mirian

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Dear moses,

When you posted about this relationship -prior to this thread- and your question then was about the forces at work in this relationship the answer was Hex 56 changing lines 1,3,4 and 6. Well, I told you then that this would bring separation and communication break-down, which seems to be still at work.

Anyway, my point is, I have an approach to my personal readings that might help you to make sense of all that is happening. When I have something important to deal with and start asking several questions about the same subject I always go back to the beginning and read through all the interpretations again not only as a reminder of the information that I have already been given but also to help me to get the whole picture.

My suggestion is that if you do that you will be able to process your readings better and also use the previous information as a background for your future questions.

By reading your previous questions/interpretations in your threads I have just had the impression that maybe your question about how to create success in a romantic relationship with your ex was not even the question to be asked:D since you are right in the middle of the communication break-down. But the Yi responded to you anyway, because it always does:blush:

callingcrane is suggesting a very interesting take on your Hex 60.4 reading:

Quote:

With 60.4 that would be: 60.4 [58.4: 57.3] 59.3 . If you read the text for these lines in order (leaving commentaries aside), in the context of "romance" it is enough to make someone blush! A bit "R-rated" one might say, and unlikely to happen if one hasn't been communicating with one's "X".

But, of course, first you need to get there;)

So, if I were in your position I would re-read your interpretations and figure it out what it is that you really need to ask that give you a clear direction and advice.

Hope that helps:bows:
 

canislulu

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moses,

I wasn't suggesting that someone else was communicating with her. I was thinking that if you want to get to 60.4 that you will need to be communicating with her if you haven't been. I think Mirian's suggestions are a wonderful way to proceed.

Have fun!
 

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