Will Obama be the next US President? 19.2

[laylab]

I said it all in the title. So 19.2 seems like a "yes" but is the I ching just reflecting my wish back to me?

This is my fundamental issue with the IC, sometimes I think my subconscious is answering, not some super conscious all knowing "awareness".

Any thoughts?

 

[petrosianii]

Can the I Ching Be Used to Foretell Political Events?

I've written about this on my I Ching blog and on my website on more than one occasion. You may find it interesting.

 

[laylab]

Interesting blog

I asked today: Who will be the next President of the US?

and got:

13.1.2.3 Fellowship leading to 6 Conflict
Nine at the beginning means:

Fellowship with men at the gate.

No blame.

Six in the second place means:

Fellowship with men in the clan.

Humiliation.

Nine in the third place means:

He hides weapons in the thicket;

He climbs the high hill in front of it.

For three years he does not rise up

 

[folledeschiele]

Incidentally, I asked the same question a couple of months ago and got Revolution. I couldn't stop hearing Wilhelm's "On your own day you are believed". But again, wishful thinking?

 

[duiday]

I asked a slightly different question, hoping to gain a little insight into the reaction to the election.

Q. Politically and socially what will be the world's response to the US Presidential Election on November 2008?

A. Ch'ien (Creative Principle) changing to Chien (Trouble) #39

Lines 1,2,5 changed.

The line 1 thing could be troubling: Concealed dragon, requires withdrawal, "His light is not yet seen." If withdrawal means something like a spiritual retreat then I kind of doubt that is going to happen. What I expect is the biggest party on the face of the earth followed by a binge of deal-making.

Line 2 requires no show of one's power, and I don't think that's a good requirement for a politician who probably only has one gear - forward and outward. Somebody like Gandhi would have been able to adhere to this but an American politician on his way to The Big Show?

Line 5 advises to see a great man, that we have the advent of holy sage. Nobody would call McCain a candidate for becoming a holy sage. Some do put that label on O'Bama. Also in politics a "great man" is often confused with a "great liar", so even if somebody seeks a great man, who is that likely to be? Zibignew? Karl Rove?

 

[fkegan]

I said it all in the title. So 19.2 seems like a "yes" but is the I ching just reflecting my wish back to me?

This is my fundamental issue with the IC, sometimes I think my subconscious is answering, not some super conscious all knowing "awareness".

Any thoughts?

Your Oracle for " Will Obama be next U.S. Pres." was: hex19.2 >>24 or Coming Together>>Spring's Back (or Turning Point) Or Coming Together expressing and exhausting its structure leaving only the transition from prior conditions as focus.

Line 2 of hex 19 in Gia-Fu Feng's Taoist Translation is: INFLUENTIAL INTIMACY. LUCK. To win the hearts of all the people takes time.

Timing is important. The Day you cast your oracle matters. The Yi Oracle does NOT give answers inscribed in stone or in any way fixed. They are the current timing, momentum or Big Bang gravity of the Universe here-and-now.

The equivalent degree of the Zodiac is Libra 8 whose Sabian Symbol is:In the depths of the woods is an abandoned farm; in the deserted house a fireplace blazes merrily and mysteriously.
Generally a degree of Hope however from all perspectives the election of 4 Nov 2008 is a matter of the voting not prior decree by the Yi oracle.
What are you doing to make your desired outcome become real history?

Frank

 

[willowfox]

A. Ch'ien (Creative Principle) changing to Chien (Trouble) #39

Lines 1,2,5 changed.

The lines speak very highly of this new president to be, he is the great man that all will acknowledge as someone special, who is serious and reliable, as his influence will spread around the world. So a much talked about president, one the world will be constantly watching.

 

[Samgirl]

A. Ch'ien (Creative Principle) changing to Chien (Trouble) #39

Lines 1,2,5 changed.

The lines speak very highly of this new president to be, he is the great man that all will acknowledge as someone special, who is serious and reliable, as his influence will spread around the world. So a much talked about president, one the world will be constantly watching.

Well... this answer gives me great hopes. I am not American but I wish I was right now so I could vote for the person I feel you have described here.

 

[diamanda]

Interesting answers. 1 which ends up in 39, and 13 which ends up in 6.
A great beginning, but an ominous way ahead.
Lines 13:2 and 13:3 sound quite accurate to describe what's going on
in politics around the world. 'Clan' relationships and hidden interests.
The new president will be a good person, but won't have the power to
effect good things. Not surprising.

 

[fkegan]

A. Ch'ien (Creative Principle) changing to Chien (Trouble) #39

Lines 1,2,5 changed.

The lines speak very highly of this new president to be, he is the great man that all will acknowledge as someone special, who is serious and reliable, as his influence will spread around the world. So a much talked about president, one the world will be constantly watching.

Hi Willowfox,
I have a problem with the line changes. Hex 1.1,2,5 seems to yield hex 56. In order to move hex 1 to hex 39 requires hex 1.1,2,4,6.

Hex 1 about the sunshine and its power to energize the water cycle with line 1 just before dawn when the sun hasn't yet risen, line 2 when the sun appears in the sky and line 5 when the sun rules the day. Together these lines indicate developing power. However, their resultant hexagram is hex 56 The Wanderer or Just Passing about the sun rising over the mountain peak.

As an answer to a question about world reaction to the US Presidential Election in general the Oracle answer seems to indicate that it would be seen as the culmination of a campaign and life would continue on beyond it.

Frank

 

[willowfox]

Hi Willowfox,
I have a problem with the line changes. Hex 1.1,2,5 seems to yield hex 56. In order to move hex 1 to hex 39 requires hex 1.1,2,4,6.

Hex 1 about the sunshine and its power to energize the water cycle with line 1 just before dawn when the sun hasn't yet risen, line 2 when the sun appears in the sky and line 5 when the sun rules the day. Together these lines indicate developing power. However, their resultant hexagram is hex 56 The Wanderer or Just Passing about the sun rising over the mountain peak.

As an answer to a question about world reaction to the US Presidential Election in general the Oracle answer seems to indicate that it would be seen as the culmination of a campaign and life would continue on beyond it.

Frank

Hi, it was not my question, ask "duiday", I was only giving my idea of the lines that he said that he got.

 

[duiday]

Willow quote about A. Ch'ien (Creative Principle) changing to Chien (Trouble) #39

Lines 1,2,5 changed.

"The lines speak very highly of this new president to be, he is the great man that all will acknowledge as someone special, who is serious and reliable, as his influence will spread around the world. So a much talked about president, one the world will be constantly watching."

Willow's point is well taken, given honorable intent, integrity, and seeking of "great man" counsel by the president. My concern is about whether the man in question has honorable intent or integrity, and has surrounded himself with "great man" essence. I obviously concluded not. Why?

McCain reason: McCain is deluded about his honor, which translates as being military aggression. He has no good intent and has no great men around him. If he wins then his plans will fail as a result.

O'Bama reason: O'Bama has already expressed intent to intensify the attacks on Pakistan. His foreign policy adviser is Zibignew Brezinski, well known as the world's leading "Russian Hater", author of the plan to surround Russia, destroy Russia, and take the oil resources from the Caspian Basin and Caucasus.

I don't see honorable intent or great man anywhere in the picture. Hence, my own interpretation varies from that of Willow.

 

[duiday]

"I have a problem with the line changes. Hex 1.1,2,5 seems to yield hex 56. In order to move hex 1 to hex 39 requires hex 1.1,2,4,6."

Looking into it. May be a beginner's mistake, Frank. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[fkegan]

Hi, it was not my question, ask "duiday", I was only giving my idea of the lines that he said that he got.

Hi Willow,

Doesn't it ever dawn on you to check the oracle as stated to notice if the moving lines and the hexagram change go together? Errors in oracles open new doors and there may well be value in both the stated and the actual oracles, but it is important to pay enough attention to figure out when a 'two-for' is in play. We all make errors and it is important others help us see the problems raised and figure out what they add to the discussion.

Sunshine >> Valley Forge is quite different from Sunshine >> Just Passing. Your comments seem only to refer to the ruling line 5. The other two line places, 1 and 2 describe in detail the effect of the process of Obama's campaign. At the first notice of Obama he appears clearly Not Ready to move into the Presidency. Then after awhile one notices he is quite impressive but still just another candidate. It is only at the end of this process that he flies like a dragon. Though this process doesn't just go to the Long March of hex 39, it moves on without being tied down.

Frank

 

[willowfox]

Hi Willow,

Doesn't it ever dawn on you to check the oracle as stated to notice if the moving lines and the hexagram change go together? Errors in oracles open new doors and there may well be value in both the stated and the actual oracles, but it is important to pay enough attention to figure out when a 'two-for' is in play. We all make errors and it is important others help us see the problems raised and figure out what they add to the discussion.

Hey, don't blame me, I'm only the bloody postman, it is up to the sender to put the right address on the mail.

 

[fkegan]

Hey, don't blame me, I'm only the bloody postman, it is up to the sender to put the right address on the mail.

No Willowfox,
you are not a Cosmic civil servant and any decent postman, bloody or not is expected to know the addresses well enough to figure out when a mistake has been made and work to correct it so there is accurate delivery of the message.

Not catching the error is just another error on your part--that is excusable as is any simple error. Claiming you have a right to just make what response you wish and to blame others for making a mistake just as you have is personal irresponsibility of the first order. That is how small errors get magnified and intensified. Stating it is someone's else's total fault while you assume you remain blameless is totally offensive to me.

It does give considerable background to the interpretation you offered of the lines though. Transparency is the best disinfectant. So hopefully the beginning of improvement opportunity for you.

Frank

 

[duiday]

Mea Culpa. The 39 (instead of 56) was a result of misreading Li trigram for K'an trigram. Doh!

 

[duiday]

Here is a silly question: Does my question and answer refer only to the collective mind's perceptions of the winner (not the true nature of the winner)? I think it's easy to get them mixed up. There is a big difference between the world's response (presumably based upon the world's perceptions) and the candidate's future performance or true intent.

I would agree that the Ch'ien hexagram tells us that the world is seeing a savior or holy sage in its collective vision after the election. My only caution is that what the world sees, or believes, or wants to believe, and what it gets can be two entirely different things.

 

[marien]

Here is a silly question: Does my question and answer refer only to the collective mind's perceptions of the winner (not the true nature of the winner)?

I've been thinking about this, too. Funny thing is, my experiences with the these questions in past elections showed that both were answered correctly. I asked at this time four years ago, and the IC said the time was not auspicious. Over the course of the primaries, the IC's guidance comforted my worries, and predicted all of Obama's wins, losses, scandals (Rev Wright), and perseverance. I've held off on asking about the general until a few days ago. The answer was very positive, 13.5 > 30 and speaks of our collective sadness turning to joy. Phew, I hope this is the case. Otherwise I'm finding relief in the magic numbers at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com (but that's a whole different type of divination :bows

 

[Tohpol]

Here is a silly question: Does my question and answer refer only to the collective mind's perceptions of the winner (not the true nature of the winner)? I think it's easy to get them mixed up. There is a big difference between the world's response (presumably based upon the world's perceptions) and the candidate's future performance or true intent.

I would agree that the Ch'ien hexagram tells us that the world is seeing a savior or holy sage in its collective vision after the election. My only caution is that what the world sees, or believes, or wants to believe, and what it gets can be two entirely different things.

I think you're highlighting the important points here Duiday. The response is one thing - the actual truth of the matter is quite another. People will see Obama as the saviour whatever anyone says. But they'll find out soon enough he's just another polite version of McCain.

Topal

 

[Samgirl]

I think you're highlighting the important points here Duiday. The response is one thing - the actual truth of the matter is quite another. People will see Obama as the saviour whatever anyone says. But they'll find out soon enough he's just another polite version of McCain.

Topal

Oh, no, Topal... I know there is a lot of expectation and that Obama is not a revolutionary leader (although it would be if we consider the current leadership,... but a polite version of McCain??? They seem like oil and water to me.

 

[Samgirl]

O'Bama reason: O'Bama has already expressed intent to intensify the attacks on Pakistan. His foreign policy adviser is Zibignew Brezinski, well known as the world's leading "Russian Hater", author of the plan to surround Russia, destroy Russia, and take the oil resources from the Caspian Basin and Caucasus.

Just one comment about this... I am not democrat, I am not American and I don't live in the US so I am not campaigning. However, I listened very carefully to both candidates on each of the debates they had together, apart of other interviews, etc., and Obama never mentioned that we wanted to attack Pakistan (although McCain insisted that Obama did). He basically said that he wanted to move the focus from Irak to Afganistan, by sending more troops and Pakistan, because this is where the terrorist action has the based. He also said that the way to deal with these countries and Russia is enforcing diplomacy. The same happens with taxes, when he is being accused of wanting to raise the taxes of Joe the plumber, he has repeated that taxes wouldn't be raised by the families that earn less than 200.000 USD per year. If we want to believe or not what he says is our right, but this is what he has said.

 

[duiday]

Topal said: "But they'll find out soon enough he's just another polite version of McCain."
****
Topal, dissociating the discussion from the Yi for a moment I am holding these observations for my own reality. See if they ring a bell for you or not.

1. O'Bama has chosen (or vice versa) Zibignew Brezinski as his foreign policy "great man". This is a disaster for Pakistan and Russia and the whole Caucasus oil conflict, regardless of who is president. This could easily be a disaster for the US as well, as surrounding Russia seems like a dubious activity.

2. Domestically O'Bama obviously brings new energy to the table, and that his heart is in the right place for the disenfranchised and homeless. Blacks should have hope, and I am happy for their hope. But I am listening to white-America on talk radio and hearing some ugly reactions to this redistribution of wealth concept. I fear that his attempts to even the playing field by force will result in somebody pushing back. That would have potential for a race war, such is the depth of racism in America.

Then there is the problem that America is broke, and neither candidate is going to stop the spending. With either guy we're going further into debt. The debt jig could be up soon. Receivership for the US government would be a destabilizing event that nobody wants, but how to avoid it with neither candidate talking financial sense?

I wish I could see a path where one of the guys said, "I will stop the wars, and I will stop the spending". What I'm hearing is that we're getting a lot more of both with either guy. O'Bama will also change life forever in the US if he gets his required national service for all young Americans. The parallel to Hitler Youth makes me very uncomfortable. The plan is to cultivate militaristic youth into compliant young adults who will then make good soldiers, and I can't tell you how discomforting this is to me.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss", is the only way I can see it no matter who wins. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it difficult to associate Zibignew Brezinski with peace and brotherhood.

 

[fkegan]

Hi all,
The pundit commentary has turned from who will win the election Tuesday to what will Obama do inheriting such a mess from Bush-Cheney-McCain. Obama is over 50% in many of the individual state polls and McCain is now campaigning for the undecided vote which is part of the other 50%. There is a huge astrological event about to happen (Saturn opposite Uranus both square Venus T-square) all day Monday and Tuesday. However, it seems more to affect the McCain vote than the election--folks in general worrying about working on making the near future better and perhaps Evangelical types disappearing into the Rapture.

Obama is truly different from others, part of why he lacks "experience"-- he wants to work together rather than for partisan gain and that doesn't go over well amongst party partisans.

A more general example is the comment by one pundit close to Pres. Clinton noting that he thought Pres. Obama may ask Clinton to spearhead his effort to settle the Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan as a way to calm tensions and make it easier to resolve our involvement in Afghanistan and to keep Pakistan stable and supportive of efforts to capture Osama and eliminate the threat from Al Queda and the Taliban.

It's a new century and millennium and all the old 20th century garbage that Topol took with him to his cave in France is getting more than ripe. The old politics died with the financial meltdown and Obama is one of the few to have any idea what to do next. Or as the metaphor goes, Bush captained the Titanic into the icebergs, we are all in the same boat now and its either Obama's leadership or a long dip in the icy water.

48 hours to the end of the suspense...Good Luck to us all.

Frank

 

[hollis]

Hi all,
settle the Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan as a way to calm tensions and make it easier to resolve our involvement in Afghanistan and to keep Pakistan stable

This would be fantastic. In daily life India, Muslims and Hindus get along almost always just fine, until one political party or another stages a violent event to shift an election, or such.

p.s. Frank, I love your perspective. Very fresh.

 

[Tohpol]

Topal said: "But they'll find out soon enough he's just another polite version of McCain."
****
Topal, dissociating the discussion from the Yi for a moment I am holding these observations for my own reality. See if they ring a bell for you or not.

1. O'Bama has chosen (or vice versa) Zibignew Brezinski as his foreign policy "great man". This is a disaster for Pakistan and Russia and the whole Caucasus oil conflict, regardless of who is president. This could easily be a disaster for the US as well, as surrounding Russia seems like a dubious activity.

2. Domestically O'Bama obviously brings new energy to the table, and that his heart is in the right place for the disenfranchised and homeless. Blacks should have hope, and I am happy for their hope. But I am listening to white-America on talk radio and hearing some ugly reactions to this redistribution of wealth concept. I fear that his attempts to even the playing field by force will result in somebody pushing back. That would have potential for a race war, such is the depth of racism in America.

Then there is the problem that America is broke, and neither candidate is going to stop the spending. With either guy we're going further into debt. The debt jig could be up soon. Receivership for the US government would be a destabilizing event that nobody wants, but how to avoid it with neither candidate talking financial sense?

I wish I could see a path where one of the guys said, "I will stop the wars, and I will stop the spending". What I'm hearing is that we're getting a lot more of both with either guy. O'Bama will also change life forever in the US if he gets his required national service for all young Americans. The parallel to Hitler Youth makes me very uncomfortable. The plan is to cultivate militaristic youth into compliant young adults who will then make good soldiers, and I can't tell you how discomforting this is to me.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss", is the only way I can see it no matter who wins. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it difficult to associate Zibignew Brezinski with peace and brotherhood.

Exactly. Look to who pulls the strings. Completely agree with your appraisal duiday. And of course, each of your points could be elaborated on at length. Nice to see someone prepared to look behind the brainwashing that passes for news.

Topal

 

[duiday]

I am sorry to confirm that O'Bama made his announcement about supporting the intensifying of attacks on Pakistan (the Brezinski Plan) some months ago, and quite without any help from McCain or Clinton propaganda. O'Bama is fully behind the War On Terror, and has said so a number of times. It is what it is.

Do you remember the chopper commander in Apocalypse Now who stepped out onto the battle field, inhaled deeply, and said, "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"? That's Brezinski. That is O'Bama's "great man", his Karl Rove, the architect of the coming atrocities in Pakistan, leading to provocations of Russia, and to a conflict to take over the Caspian Basin oil.

 

[AnitaS]

I wanted to post about my recent understanding of hex 19 -- lines 1 and 2 about a new job -- whether I'd be chosen. And I got it, and in fact till now it's going pretty well. It's a new venture for me - as web content manager and to some extent webmaster, but I'm having fun. So I'm sure it's gonna be the same for Obama. I like him.

Best for your Quest

Anita