Yao Texts?

[schizandra]

My Yi of preference these days is Alfred Huang's Complete I Ching, which includes the Yao Texts by the Duke of Zhou. It is the first I Ching I've had that includes these, and I'm not always sure what to do with them. Are these meant to be supplemental information that brought about the conditions of the hexagram? Are they to be read from lines 1-6 as if in chronological order?

Thank you for your help.

 

[hilary]

Hi Schizandra,

I'm not quite sure where your confusion is, so forgive me if I explain something you already know perfectly well.

'Yao' just means 'line'; 'yao texts' are the texts you read when the line of that number is changing. You mentioned in another thread having a reading with 59.6 to 29 - ie you cast Hexagram 59 with the 6th (top) line changing. Then the only yao/line text you read is the 6th. It's the particular aspect of the hexagram that answers your question most directly.

The free course that came with your membership talks you through casting hexagrams, changing lines etc, or there's a step by step description in the 'Learn' section.

 

[bradford]

If you are reading I Ching versions that don't have the 6 Line Yao texts for each Hexagram then you are reading the wrong books, especially if you are just starting out.

 

[schizandra]

Thanks for your explanation, Hilary. In Huang's book, each hexagram chapter refers to the lines in two separate sections. The first section is a simple translation (the Yao Text I was referring to), the second section explains the translation. I was mistaken in thinking that the Yao Text refers to the lines in the unchanging hexagram, while the second section explains the lines that create the relating hexagram. Now I understand that both sections refer to the relating hexagram. Thanks for helping me clear that up.

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi schizandra,
I've used Alfred Huangs book for quite a while before I discovered the Wilhelm/Baynes translation. Personally, this helps me a lot more. While Huangs book is far from useless, I sometimes have the feeling that especially the texts for the changing lines are not all that much to the point. So I'd recommend you to take at least a look at Wilhelm
best wishes

maui

 

[svenrus]

Alfred Huang: The complete I Ching. The six lines as given by Duke of Zhou first and then Alfred Huangs personal explanations of how to understand the line-structure. Beside that Confutzes commentaries.

 

[schizandra]

Thank you maui. I do have the Wilhelm-Baynes version, but I prefer Huang's version for its focus on the images and its hands-off, open-ended approach. I do pull out W/B when Huang's version has me scratching my head. As you say, Wilhelm-Baynes usually brings me closer to a usable interpretation in those instances.

 

[Liselle]

Now I understand that both sections refer to the relating hexagram.

You probably meant to type "primary" hexagram there?

(Well, of course the words in the book just refer to lines in general - there's not special "primary hexagram texts" vs. "relating hexagram texts" - but the answer to your question will always be in the primary hexagram and its moving lines. Those are the texts you'd look at first. The relating hexgram is an important part of an interpretation, but it's not your direct answer.)

 

[schizandra]

No, I meant to type relating. After reading others' responses here, my current understanding of the yao texts is that they describe how the moving lines affect the initial hexagram, how they change it into the relating hexagram. If by "primary" hexagram you're referring to the unchanging hexagram, I'm confused as to how the yao texts refer to the unchanging hexagram if they specifically refer to the moving lines?

 

[Trojina]

No, I meant to type relating. After reading others' responses here, my current understanding of the yao texts is that they describe how the moving lines affect the initial hexagram, how they change it into the relating hexagram. If by "primary" hexagram you're referring to the unchanging hexagram, I'm confused as to how the yao texts refer to the unchanging hexagram if they specifically refer to the moving lines?

I'm very confused. By 'yao texts' do you mean moving lines/changing lines ? The changing lines give you the relating hexagram. I mean the lines are what make the primary turn into the relating. The relating hexagram is not called an unchanging hexagram, an unchanging hexagram is a primary hexagram with no moving lines.

You may know all this perfectly well it's just I can't follow what you are speaking of. The only thing that is an unchanging hexagram is a primary hexagram with no moving lines in which case there is no relating hexagram.

Hang on

my current understanding of the yao texts is that they describe how the moving lines affect the initial hexagram,

Eh ? No, the moving lines change the primary to the relating/second hexagram. When you said

Now I understand that both sections refer to the relating hexagram. Thanks for helping me clear that up

I wasn't confident you had cleared it up as I don't know how you mean both sections refer to the relating hexagram. What sections ? You mean the primary and second hexagram ? Well then ......er it's no good I'm totally confused. If you follow the link Hilary gave to the 'Learn' section then you may be able to connect what's there with whatever peculiar thing Huang does.

 

[schizandra]

Thanks all for your help. I'm confident now that I understand correctly what the Yao Texts are for, however confusing this thread has gotten. I feel that trying to untangle the thread further will only cause more confusion. My fault, because I began the thread on a mistaken premise! Apologies, and thanks again.

 

[hilary]

Yes... Huang has just separated out the translations from his commentaries on them, including giving the line texts and their commentaries separately.

Yao = line. Gua = hexagram (or sometimes trigram).

Primary hexagram = initial hexagram = the one you cast = the one that has moving lines in it.

my current understanding of the yao texts is that they describe how the moving lines affect the initial hexagram, how they change it into the relating hexagram.

Yes, you could describe it that way. Normally when we say '59 line 6' we simultaneously mean both the moving 6th line and its text, which is probably why people are finding your description confusing.

 

[Trojina]

Yes... Huang has just separated out the translations from his commentaries on them, including giving the line texts and their commentaries separately.

But everyone does that. You do that in your book. There's the translation of the line and then your commentary.

 

[Liselle]

It's just that Huang lists all six translations one after the other in a section called "Yao Text," then he starts a new section called "Significance" where he gives his six commentaries one after the other.

 

[Trojina]

Sounds baffling and not a book for beginners. I've never even seen it anywhere.

 

[Liselle]

Yes, I have it because it was in the library book sale. Hilary briefly reviews it here. I surely don't make the use of it I should, but it wouldn't be the first book I'd open for a reading, regardless.

Schizandra, if you're willing to purchase another book, I think many of us would enthusiastically recommend Hilary's. Hilary wrote it with real readings in mind, in addition to her knowledge of the I Ching and her many years of study and experience as a diviner. And she's one of the world's great "explainers" (in my opinion); as a result, I find it a great help towards "oh, that's what my reading is saying" moments.

(Hilary is quite un-pushy about it - you'll notice the lack of advertising here - so I hope a little plug on her book's behalf is okay.)

But as I'm sure you know, it's best not to rely on any single book. In addition to the ones you own, have you found LiSe Heyboer's site containing her translation and commentary, and Bradford Hatcher's free downloads containing his?