...life can be translucent

Menu

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 11

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Again, that's not always the case . . I very rarely measure them up like that. It might be 'obvious' for some of us but it doesn't work like that for everyone, or in every case ( I mean not everyone understands or perceives those hexagrams together, or in terms of antithesis . .)

:confused: well I wasn't exactly meaning to say everyone did anything . How would I know . Looking at what I wrote I can't see that I have claimed that everyone shares my cogitations...here's what I wrote, notice I am using the word 'I' not 'you'

I noticed while reading and writing in these threads on hex 11 unchanging and hex 12 unchanging how they are so enmeshed/intertwined it's quite easy to mistake one for the other as Graham did....and I'm finding in my own thoughts I now cannot think of one without thinking of the other. This has probably always been totally obvious on an intellectual level but I certainly haven't been so aware of it before.

I wonder if unchanging hexagrams are particulary reflective of/interactive with their pair when we perceive them directly via our own experiences.


Again if you have a problem with these threads maybe start a new thread to discuss it...if you want to discuss it ?


The way I see it they are useful to gather as many experiences of unchanging hexagrams as possible so that we might better understand what particular significance, if any, a hexagram has in it's unchanging form.
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
78
Trying to reach consensus, or discover a working pattern is as close as 'rules' come in divination, I think we agree on that. For my part, I didn't hint on anything more strict than this. Fwiw, what I've quoted on my previous post is not a personal idea, it is making the passage from personal to general and that is where I wanted to point out that what you were talking about is not what happens generally ..

Btw, I have no problem with 'kingdoms' meshing or interacting (actually it sounds pretty much like 11, to me).
There's no need to get defensive here Trojan, I'm only sharing observations and thoughts. I'd rather not continue though - and no, I don't think the subject needs to be made into a whole new issue in a new thread . .
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Well I just cast hexagram 11 unchanging twice, with coins, in the space of 20 minutes for 2 completely different questions :cool:

hmmmm I'll get back on those some time
 

fallada

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
87
Reaction score
24
Hello Tuck,

Your sarcasm is funny, but it isn't helpful.

After 37 yrs my coins are worn well. Thank you.

When I find time I seek inspiration and learning here and try to give back what I can.

Reality is six lines and their creator/observer. There is no holly book that will reveal the truth if you only manage to recieve the right sign. You know that yourself too well.

Each divinder comes to a point where she must choose: Either her interpretations and demands are wrong or the oracle is wrong and how many errors – whatever that may be - she can allow for without feeling the need for a revision or change. Trusting in the oracle opens a door into a room beyond paper and tradition. Nobody else can enter it. All we can do in this forum is shout across the walls and describe what we see as honest and good as we can.
 

tuckchang

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
281
Reaction score
18
Dear Fallada,

I apologize if what I said makes you feel uncomfortable. I have no intent to be impolite; maybe unconsciously I did in that way. I apologize. :bows:

What I intend to say is accuracy.

Your stating experiences of hex 11 UC are contrary to what is commonly understood from the text of Yi or its interpretation by Ten Wings (or, the understanding to me).

In my country, usually the divination of Yi is used for getting advice, or the outcome, or .. of an event, most of the cases concerning the future. Most of professional diviners here try to purse the so-called accuracy by means of religion or spirit. I don’t mean that Yi or the I Ching itself doesn’t own the magic power; sometimes I gave myself an excuse of why Yi must always give me a right hexagram or line to my question.

People might and can have different interpretations of each hexagram or line according to the phenomenon created by the images, or the text, or … of a hexagram or line. However, in my opinion, hex 11 UC is definitely a positive hexagram (remarks: its lines are of different stories) but an ongoing state. Hex 11 will change to hex 12 if the trigram Chien eventually ascends to the top and the trigram Kun descends to the bottom.

Divination had been developed from everything resorting to gods and ghosts in Shang gradually to a society of emphasizing the cultivation of civilization in late Zhou; therefore Yi interpreted by Ten Wings (i.e. the I Ching) also became a philosophy of human life, which includes the concept of life IN STAGES. In addition, Yi itself never guarantees success (only 17.1 said: a merit is achievable by changing what one is engaging in and following the trend).

Last but the least, in fact Chinese numerology also speaks the logic in respect to what one encounters; in addition to so-called fate and luck, it also emphasizes feng shui (which also refers to whether one is put on one’s right position), and whether things are done right and good, as well as hard working. In my opinion, that which will happen eventually is not decided by divination, but the fate and the person himself. For your reference, usually an important decision concerning the future must be made; the professional diviner here will check the birthday chart.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Your stating experiences of hex 11 UC are contrary to what is commonly understood from the text of Yi or its interpretation by Ten Wings (or, the understanding to me).


That's fine....that's the point, this is what these threads are for. People were requested directly to share their experiences. That is what Fallada did.

I think someone who has consulted the Yi for 37 years and used it in her everyday life actually does have something valuable to say and I want to hear about it.


People might and can have different interpretations of each hexagram or line according to the phenomenon created by the images, or the text, or … of a hexagram or line. However, in my opinion, hex 11 UC is definitely a positive hexagram (remarks: its lines are of different stories) but an ongoing state. Hex 11 will change to hex 12 if the trigram Chien eventually ascends to the top and the trigram Kun descends to the bottom.

Divination had been developed from everything resorting to gods and ghosts in Shang gradually to a society of emphasizing the cultivation of civilization in late Zhou; therefore Yi interpreted by Ten Wings (i.e. the I Ching) also became a philosophy of human life, which includes the concept of life IN STAGES. In addition, Yi itself never guarantees success (only 17.1 said: a merit is achievable by changing what one is engaging in and following the trend).

In first paragraph you seem basically to be saying Fallada's experience is incorrect since it doesn't fit with the idea of hexagram 11 as you know it in academic terms ? Hmmm but you have no actual experiences of hexagram 11 to share....you understand hexagram 11 purely as a concept ?

In the 2nd paragraph....well I urge you to look at the thread title. It's inviting people to share their experiences...and ideas connected with their experiences.


I may start another thread purely for people to discuss the concept of these threads so we can just get on with them.


It is interesting to see the questionable place 'experience' seems to be given by some compared to the more academic/conceptual approach. It's interesting it has come up in hex 11 uc in particular. We spoke of 'kingdoms' earlier and Shared Readings seems to be more female territory, more threads started by females anyway. Exploring Divination is more male territory, possibly more men starting threads (not sure) but certainly more conceptual/academic discussion and I think in general more men take part in them....where more women take part in SR. (Yes both men and women take part in both but proportionally there is a difference),

If, hypothetically, in very broad terms, the experiential side of understanding Yi is Kun and the conceptual scholarly side of understanding Yi is Qian then when Dora said having these threads in this section "changes the landscape" well yes it does. I do think experience of answers has a a big role to play in understanding Yi and I don't feel it's secondary to acadmic understanding, And equally of course one can't get to the opposite point where someone says "this must mean that because that's how I experienced it" I think it's best when the two approaches are balanced and interacting.

Sounds very much like 11 but at this point in time I feel the experiental approach is undervalued so I reckon it's important it has a space to be heard and digested....and cogitated upon and made patterns with and so on and so on
 
Last edited:

tuckchang

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
281
Reaction score
18
Dear Trojan,

I do agree with you to start another thread. My question will be: shall we follow the good experiences here, or the bad experiences? how shall we do if our defining hex sometimes turns out to be positive and sometimes negative?……. Additionally I would like to ask: who shall guide us to a right hexagram or line to our question? ……..shall we take the meaning best suited to our wish by wondering the text or the images occurring to us? … …….what is the attitude we should have when we receive advice? or, shall we take divination just to find out what is the inside and outside of ourselves?

I want to stress here: I do believe the existence of the secret power thanks to two experiences with the so-called spirit and my study of Ba Zi, but I don’t have it. Therefore I count on the I Ching when I divine, and the philosophy of Chinese numerology.

To make me more clear in respect to divination by the I Ching. The hexagram is just a set of symbols. Zhou Yi provides each hexagram with a name and texts. Ten Wings is the one which defines Yin, Yang, heaven, earth, wind, thunder, and ….. according to the study of Zhou Yi, and converts the natural phenomenon into the appropriate human behaviors at each hexagram. I am trying to seek the true significance of the I Ching. No matter whether it is called a purely academic study or only a concept, I take it as a basis and trust it. AS to whether I take action, it is up to me.
If one has a chance to read the inscription on the tortoise’s shell, one might find a question of which late king I irritated and makes me toothache, and the answer (by its crack and by the diviner’s paraphrase): your grandfather. I don’t have that magic power.

Best regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
What shall we say? Change the coins?
Or, such a bad luck, even Yi won’t tell the truth.

Yi lies still there. People are the one who practices divination.
The accuracy of divination (i.e. how to get a right hexagram or line to the question) is that which people always try to pursue.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com

This made me laugh! :)
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
There's an additional element at play here, as far as the divination aspect. If I receive 11, is Yi saying "be this!" or "your situation is this way"?

The beaten path is usually the most direct one, because people are impatient; but other paths hold innocence, surprise and adventure.

How do I 11 thee? Let me count the ways..

It's like being able to see a friend, sometimes for something important, sometimes for no reason at all but to be in the company of nobility.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426

fallada

visitor
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
87
Reaction score
24
I have to apologize to all.:bows:

I realized, that I did not work out clearly, how these experiences may relate to the 'standard' interpretation. This comes from telling long stories short.

The headline that is missing should be: Heaven's loving protection.
The great that comes were moments of deep gratitude and loughter after having realized the true context of one's experience. The small that went: all the petty concerns and angers from a limited vision of the ongoing process. I couldnt go wrong, even if i tried.
Immediate personal happiness and success are imhe no criteria with heaven's blessings. It isnt excluded either!

"be in the company of nobility" Beautiful. Accurate. Thank you, meng. Went into my journal.

Truly sorry for the inconvenience.

Fallada
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
135
I receive 11 uc a lot, from looking through my journal. The only thing that really is common between the castings is that I took the advice from the image and things went well, oh and that in the way they worked out the situation had free movement, that is to say ... Well for example one was for the aftermath of a break up and it is the only relationship gone in which there is goodwill between us both but at the same time a real sense of closure, no need to keep in contact and no need to dodge each other either. So outwardly it could look like 12 because we are no longer in each others lives but the difference is , say, if his name comes up in conversation with others etc. I don't feel afflicted, it flows, it is so. I have only had positive experiences with 11 uc.
 

Liselle

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
12,850
Reaction score
2,388
A couple mundane examples:

1. Was looking for some papers; had the general idea they were either on top of a table or had fallen under or behind it. Got 11 unchanging, and found the papers on top of the table - they had not "flowed."

2. I was asked to fix something that was partly my fault, partly other people's faults, and mostly just things falling through the cracks and not really anyone's fault. I was slightly indignant (why should I bear the brunt), asked "How best for me to respond to this?," and got 11 unchanging. Took it to mean "go with the flow" - go along with what I was being told to do. The situation was resolved without much incident.
 

deepstillwater

visitor
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
23
I have recently cast two 11uc.

For one question, the answer Flow meant a very simple "no".

The other question was "what would be the outcome of going to a particular social Balboa dance night?". I've been learning Balboa for a little while, and a few dancing friends asked if I was going to this social night. I was cautious about going, because I'm only a beginner and only know a few people.

I went, and I had the most dreamy time. My two friends (both dancing leaders) danced with me frequently, and I had a dance with a very experienced dancer that was so much fun. I was remembering most of the steps, and following the lead wonderfully. A very experienced dancer complimented me on my dancing, and was very surprized when I said I had only be dancing for a month. I also had many wonderful chats with other dancers.

It was a wonderful night.
 

qafinaf

visitor
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
80
Reaction score
9
From a point onwards, these ideas become a cluster of experiences, previous thoughts, feelings, our more personal 'sense' of what the hexagram stands for.

I like this idea. As though through interacting with I Ching, you find a common language, so communication can have a basis. Sometimes it seems like a hexagram will show up repeatedly, as though making reference to a previous reading. Like the use of key words in NLP.

Another view would be that the meanings are established and inflexible, and it's our place to learn the language of the oracle. But being inflexible seems to go against the Tao. Finding common ground seems closer to the Tao.

Hexagam 11 reminds me of this quality: for the heavenly, which would seem to tend upwards into openness, to put itself beneath the still and solid earth. To "engage" with it. To infuse it with its spirit. This reminds me of the bodhisattva who instead of entering into nirvana turns back to be of service to all beings. So generosity would be an aspect of 11.

Also, 11 seems to be the image of a very good listener, whose power is in service to receiving. Maybe this isn't the deeply empathic listener who absorbs other people's troubles, but one who can receive with sensitivity and offer support. Maybe in the way that a person appreciates music or art. And also in the creation of art (submitting ideals and vision to the unformed material). It also seems a good attitude for prayer.
 
Last edited:

chibi chan

visitor
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
Donating to Clarity

Hi All,

While lurking in the Clarity forums today, I noticed the "Donate" button. So I asked: What would be the effect of donating? I received 11 (Flow) unchanging. This seems like a auspicious reading for a site where ideas and interpretations flow back and forth, so I donated.

Hilary will have to let us know how this reading turns out. But I just wanted to show my gratitude to everyone on this site who has been so encouraging and helpful, especially Hilary for creating this forum. I probably should have donated more.

Thanks!
Chibi Chan
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
Thank you! The donation button is a new thing (just added on the 1st), and its 'results' so far are one heart-warmed and much encouraged website owner.

:bows:
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Hi All,

While lurking in the Clarity forums today, I noticed the "Donate" button. So I asked: What would be the effect of donating? I received 11 (Flow) unchanging. This seems like a auspicious reading for a site where ideas and interpretations flow back and forth, so I donated.

Hilary will have to let us know how this reading turns out. But I just wanted to show my gratitude to everyone on this site who has been so encouraging and helpful, especially Hilary for creating this forum. I probably should have donated more.

Thanks!
Chibi Chan

Where were you lurking when you saw it ? I can't see it ?
 
S

sooo

Guest
Thank you! The donation button is a new thing (just added on the 1st), and its 'results' so far are one heart-warmed and much encouraged website owner.

:bows:

And there we have it. "This controlling and furthering activity of man in his relation to nature is the work on nature that rewards him." Wilhelm 11
 

knotxx

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
205
I just received 11uc as advice for an intention to set on tonight's full moon, so I looked at my old 11uc readings and then came here to see what people have said.

For me in the past, 11uc has had two primary meanings--one similar to fallada's "Heaven's loving protection"-- a time when things might go horribly wrong, but instead they go just right. Like heaven saying: I got this.

I think I've posted elsewhere here that after a series of burglaries I had a sort of PTSD anxiety about leaving the house, for awhile. Sometimes I would stand in my doorway, full of fear, and say "But if I leave, what about the house . .?" Probably about half the time I did that I got 11uc, and felt a great enveloping safety (and the house was fine).

The other is as a simple "yes" answer to the yes-or-no questions you're not supposed to ask. Hilary's "will there be a war in Iraq" would be an example of that kind of question for me (nice to see Hilary sometimes asks yes-or-nos, too!) I've never had an inaccurate reading when I took 11uc for yes or 12uc for no, as answers to a yes or no question. (Not that I always get clear answers like that to dumb questions, but sometimes I luckily do.)

11uc feels like a big cosmic YES in some way, like yes it's all MOVING, it's ROLLING FORWARD, jump on! Although I can't say my experiences with it have been peaceful or pleasant exactly, they've all been very positive.

Some specific experiences:
- a couple of months ago, a sort of cri de coeur, "what am I supposed to do about money?" [it's been all right so far without my doing much, actually, at least no crisis yet, little bits of money dribbling in, took a loan, etc]
- two years ago, thinking about my various neuroses: I need to relax more than anything [working on it]
- 2.5 years ago: as a weekly reading the week I finished a final and very difficult revision of a book [both my editor and I were very happy with the revision]
- three years ago: Selling my book this year? [I did]
- a few weeks after that reading: What attitude should I take during the [agonizing] period while my agent is negotiating with various publishers about book? [the final deal was more than I'd hoped for]
 

knotxx

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,303
Reaction score
205
Another thought: Hilary's 11uc as a daily reading the day her mother had a non-fatal heart attack somehow makes me think of those phone calls you make after an event like that. Calling a sister, for example, to say, "Hi, listen, big news: the first thing you need to know is that mom is all right really, but . . . " Because "mom is all right really" is the main thing you need to hear on those occasions, if it's true; that is the lead story, so to speak.
 

kafuka

visitor
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
123
Reaction score
17
I got 11 unchanging once when I asked if I should talk to my friend and open up to her. I didn't understand the reading well but seeing the name of the hexagram made me to go for it. I talked to my friend and she was very understanding and accepting.
 

heylise

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 15, 1970
Messages
3,128
Reaction score
202
My experience with 11 uc is, that there are possibilities, but that's it. It is up to you to grab them. If you don't, then nothing at all happens, or things glide off steadily into the gutter. If you do, then everything glides just as easily upwards.
 

mulberry

visitor
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
424
Reaction score
85
My recent experience chimes in with knot's--I asked (as a follow up immediately after interviewing), "Will I get the job?" and Yi replied with 11 unchanging.

I got the job. :)
 

Liselle

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
12,850
Reaction score
2,388
Congratulations, Mulberry! :claps:
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I did some cheerleading over on your thread about this job but thought I'd throw one in here too for good measure :pompom:
 
B

butterfly spider

Guest
Well done
I like hex 11. I once won a bread bin in a raffle with the number 11
- I was 8!!!
 

mulberry

visitor
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
424
Reaction score
85
It's me again, with another happy hexagram 11 unchanging story...

My husband misplaced his keys last week. We knew they had to be somewhere in the house, but the house is very small, and we don't have much stuff, so after checking all of the most obvious places, and then the less obvious ones, and then resorting to places like the very back of the freezer behind all the untouched vegetables, he really began to lose his cool. He was calling and texting me in a panic (I wasn't home), and I was trying to be helpful but was also at a loss. I told him he should calm down, meditate, then try again; when that didn't help, I asked the I Ching, "Where are the keys?"

It replied 11 unchanging.

I knew immediately they weren't lost and he'd find them soon, and told him so. I suggested, again, that he meditate, perhaps at the altar in our bedroom-- 11 suggested to me a peaceful place-- he went in to do so and immediately found the keys under a shirt on our bed (!). They'd fallen out of a pocket.

I think 11 was Yi's way of describing the most peaceful, restful place in the home.

A happy conclusion to a good reading!
 

themothership

visitor
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
15
Reaction score
7
Has He Read the Letter I Sent Him Yet? Hexagram 11 UC

Wondering if anyone has any more actual experiences of hexagram 11 unchanging to share ? Doesn't matter what they are...they don't have to fit with what hexagram 11 is meant to be about becasue it seems to me our experience especially with unchanging hexagram doesn't always conform to what the words say in the books :D

I sent a letter through the mail to someone I have been having a rough time with, both in trying to resolve feelings and important matters of business, and wanting more than anything else to RECONCILE and grow the good. I am open in the letter, frank about my agenda, my feelings, and my point of view. It is a persuasion effort, but not a manipulative one - it presents what I value and that I insist on the best: and a clear case of what is NOT the best. I hope he'll agree, and not take an argumentative position. I am hoping he is LIKEMINDED. Because if he is, then we have something to work with. Asked the oracle if the recipient has read it yet. Hexagram 11 UC

If this does indicate engagement in physical terms, gains outweighing losses, male and female properly relating, a fruitful union of opposites: then, I couldn't hope for a more positive Oracle! The supporting indicators this evening: Whereas interaction and communication used to be stalled and difficult and frustrating, as of this evening there have been text messages (friendly, not important topics as were addressed in the letter). A detectable change has occurred in attitude and receptivity, to a harmonious interaction that is safe, and very friendly and cooperative in response. And if this is the EFFECT of him reading the letter? Gains outweigh losses INDEED.
 
V

veavea

Guest
I think looking back through my journal, 11uc has said to me 'it's OK, don't sweat it - be at peace with this situation', so maybe if some have experienced 11uc as a hard time it's because it was advice rather than a prediction/description?

I've had 11uc about a relationship that was going nowhere, he resurfaced after an absence and I asked if the situation was about to be revived: 24uc, which I took to mean 'well, you're back to where you were' (which was precisely nowhere). I then asked 'any chance we can do things differently this time?' 11uc. I interpreted this as 'well, not much chance, but don't sweat about it'. So far that's been about the size of it, and I've pretty much forgotten about it, no sweat. Another time I had 11uc about a presentation I had to give, and was really panicking about. I'd done my prep and the Yi (I felt) had been cautioning me about my approach, ie. not to take myself too seriously but strike the right balance. I asked finally 'so if I go in there and take a vaguely comedic and lighthearted approach, will that be ok?' 11uc. I went in and all went well, it flowed and I was vaguely comedic but sufficiently serious. But the presentation did totally flow once I got started.

Today I cast 11uc about approaching the edits to an academic paper I've written - I wasn't feeling confident about seeing the wood for the trees when it comes to editing my own work. 11uc. So I think it'll be ok. I won't sweat it, just let it flow...

Maybe it's a 'path of least resistance' hex.

:)
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top