Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 11

[diamanda]

I have recently cast two 11uc.
For one question, the answer Flow meant a very simple "no".

My recent experience chimes in with knot's--I asked (as a follow up immediately after interviewing), "Will I get the job?" and Yi replied with 11 unchanging. I got the job.

A few years ago I asked if I would keep my job for that year, I got 11, and it was a no (redundancies).
More recently I asked "will I get the job at *** company", I got 11 and it was again a no.

I recently did a statistical experiment with my readings for 2016.
I only took into account readings for which I knew the tangible outcome. Result:
88% of answers were spot on.
12% of answers were 'blanks' - made no sense whatsoever, no matter which way I stretched them.
11 unchanging for me is either a 'blank' or a no, it has never played out positively for me.

 

[Yasmin]

I have been pondering 11UC lately because it does feel a bit nebulous for me. But looking back, I found 14 instances where I cast 11UC in the last 5 years. In various circumstances, I was feeling powerless, anxious and unsettled, wondering if there was anything I could do to affect the situation or wondering how it would turn out. Examples included:
- deciding to buy a flat
- wondering how an interaction with someone with whom I was estranged would go (ie make things worse or bring back balance)
- wondering if tenants would renew their contract
- worrying about an unsettled legal matter which was largely out of my hands
- or vague general questions like "advice for the coming months" when I was anticipating a difficult time
And each time, 11UC meant "there there, calm down dear, it's OK. You will figure it out, or this is for the best, or heaven is smiling upon you".
So that is my shorthand for 11UC: relax, it may not seem like it, but it's Ok. That said, it usually unfolds in ways I would not have anticipated. It really is about doing my bit, then. trusting the Universe.

 

[Yasmin]

Years ago, I started out by reading 11UC as a glowing "things will work out the way you want them to", but I have learned at my expense that the Yi very rarely says that anyway!

Lately, I have been pondering this unchanging hex...and I found 14 instances where I cast 11UC since I started using the IC. The circumstances were varied, but they had in common that I was feeling powerless, anxious and unsettled, wondering if there was anything I could do to affect the situation or wondering how it would turn out. Examples include:
- deciding to buy a flat
- wondering how an interaction with someone with whom I was estranged would go (ie make things worse or bring back balance)
- wondering if tenants would renew their contract
- worrying about an unsettled legal matter which was largely out of my hands
- or vague general questions like "advice for the coming months" when I was anticipating a difficult time

And each time, 11UC meant "there there, calm down dear, it's OK. You will figure it out, or this is for the best, or heaven is smiling upon you".

So my shorthand for 11UC is a reassuring pat on the back, "relax, it may not seem like it, but it's Ok, things are moving in the right direction". That said the big caveat is that it usually unfolds in ways I would not have anticipated, and sometimes over several years. For example, finding peace about lettng go of a relationship, but after a lot of self examination and personal growth. Or working through the legal matter out of court, with lengthy, complex but amicable negotiations. It really is about doing my bit, while trusting the Universe that the background energy is moving me along in my best interest.

I hope that makes sense

 

[Yasmin]

Apologies, the first post "flowed out" before I was finished, and it now seems impossible to edit eitherod them

 

[marybluesky]

Oh... 11 was one of those hexagrams I considered "very" positive, as is described in all the I-Ching books.
To be honest, the experiences scared me.

 

[Trojina]

Oh... 11 was one of those hexagrams I considered "very" positive, as is described in all the I-Ching books.
To be honest, the experiences scared me.

So as it is a thread for people to share their experiences what are your experiences with 11uc ?

Don't know what I wrote way back up this thread but now I'd see 11uc as the movement of life, with me inside it not necessarily knowing where it's taking me. That's very general but the thought I have at this moment.

 

[Carmina]

I remember my first experience with 11 UC more than 10 years ago. I asked about a friend of mine with whom I've had a relationship since childhood. She has been close to me by circumstances I did not choose but did not matter either. The thing is that she ended up being the nanny of my children in a city almost 1,000 km away from our birth place. I got divorced (14 years ago) and, at the time, she took sides, she supported my ex-husband. I asked Yi for council as of our relationship and got 11UC. I thought it would mean relax, it'll flow. Well... No relax on my side has never been allowed in regards to this relationship, I had (have) to MAKE IT flow. My children love her I could not opt her out completely from my life. After some years she left the city where I lived and had no news from her for more than 5 years. A couple of years ago I moved back to the city where I was born and guess what... I moved to the house of my grandparents, in the countryside, in the middle of nowhere... and guess who is the closest neighbour I have in the middle of nowhere... YEP, she is...So... my 11Uc experience has been positive (no doubt to that), there has never been any damage or ugly thing going on, but it has taken a lot of energy on my part to make it work, because (even it if was not for me) the relationship was a blessing. My big boys still love her and I am thankful for her love to them. It means (for me): make the effort, don't go against it, go with it, do your share (even if I could not experience it lightly).

 

[usilser]

My last experience with hex 11 isn't positive.
Before my last breakup I asked if our relationship will last... 'NO' We broke up after a couple of days.
Perhaps the answer showed me that what we had will 'depart' and the breakup is approaching... Perhaps it showed me that my peace will not last... I am not sure but I don't feel peaceful at all.

 

[Liselle]

Received as an answer to a "How can I...?" question. Recognized "flow" as a verb, but didn't know how to apply it as an instruction. Finally decided it meant to establish flow (which makes sense in the context of an ongoing issue). Slight but helpful tweak.

 

[bradford]

It might be interesting to note that chuān 川, meaning River, Stream, Current, Flow, it the Mawangdui name for Gua 02. Shaughnessy translates it "The Flow."

 

[Liselle]

@bradford So if any hexagram could be called "Flow," it's 2, not 11, and it's wrong to interpret 11 that way? What about 29, where does it fit?

 

[bradford]

I didn't say that. 11 and 29 both fit in their way. But 11 is not a passive flow - it's a lot more dynamic than going along with gravity.

 

[Olga Super Star]

It was a big mistake for Wilhelm to name 11 "Peace"
A better name might be "Engage," with Picard's accent
Maybe equilibrium, but, more often than not, dynamic.

Oh it’s so fitting to read that! I just asked Where is my him?, meaning where is my soul mate, the man meant to be mine, and got 11un. And you write engage.

Makes me smile.
Maybe he is engaged to someone else!

 

[charly]

Oh it’s so fitting to read that! I just asked Where is my him?, meaning where is my soul mate, the man meant to be mine, and got 11un. And you write engage.

Makes me smile.
Maybe he is engaged to someone else!

Hi, Olga:

Don't worry. H.11 prognostication is positive. In the received traditional text, H.11 says:

泰 小往大來。吉亨。
tai4 xiao3 wang3 da4 lai2 ji2 heng1
PEACE: LITTLE GO, BIG COME. LUCKY FEAST.
Satisfaction: the Little goes, the Big comes. Lucky celebration.​

泰 tai4 means great, big, but also calm, relaxed, satisfied, at peace, which is, I believe, the promise of H.11 uc and in the context of your consult could be glossed «LITTLE satisfactions will go to the past, now and here comes the GOOD, satisfaction brought by a CALM BIG MAN in a lucky celebration».

泰 tai4 characters depicts a TALL MAN held by TWO HANDS over the sign of WATER STREAM:

For Tai4 Sears reports only a Seal Character, neither Bone nor Bronze (1)​

It could be understood as a TRUE GREAT PERSON, a CULTURAL HERO, or a DYNASTY FOUNDER, somedoby saved from the WATERS, like Moses or like the Great YU.

The advice would be «stay alert to catch the opportunity at the fly, don't let it escape». Uncle Hanzi says that the original meaning of 泰 tai4 was «SLIPPERY» which can have a double meaning, a very positive feature in practice or a tendency to avoid relationship engagement.

All the best,

Charly
_________________________
(1) Tai seal character in Rick Sears´ Chinese Etymology.
Ch.

 

[charly]

... The advice would be «stay alert to catch the opportunity at the fly, don't let it escape». Uncle Hanzi says that the original meaning of 泰 tai4 was «SLIPPERY» which can have a double meaning, a very positive feature in practice or a tendency to avoid relationship engagement...

Hi, Olga:

I've scrolled up an saw the following post by LiSe

My experience with 11 uc is, that there are possibilities, but that's it. It is up to you to grab them. If you don't, then nothing at all happens, or things glide off steadily into the gutter. If you do, then everything glides just as easily upwards.

All the best,

Charly

 

[Olga Super Star]

Thanks Charly
I hope to be able to update this. It would be nice to have a person from the arts.

in the meantime a friend told me that 11 means spring and so East, suggesting that, since I asked WHERE he is, the answer may simply be that he is East, perhaps in a place with heavy rains and rich vegetation, like a forest.
I hope to be able to update

 

[Valmar33]

Perhaps I should have expected it from the beginning, as it's now seemingly the blindly obvious answer...

I decided to ask the I Ching about the nature of the physical universe... and it gave me an unchanging 11. Simple and concise.

In this case, the hexagram gives me the idea of the primordial principle Heaven underlying the Earth's beingness. Of the undifferentiated Heaven giving rise to Earth, by which we can perceive Heaven through virtue of their seeming duality.

As the Wilhelm translation of The Great Treatise states

"The Creative knows the great beginnings,
The Receptive completes the finished things."

 

[Olga Super Star]

It could be understood as a TRUE GREAT PERSON, a CULTURAL HERO, or a DYNASTY FOUNDER, somedoby saved from the WATERS, like Moses or like the Great YU.

The advice would be «stay alert to catch the opportunity at the fly, don't let it escape». Uncle Hanzi says that the original meaning of 泰 tai4 was «SLIPPERY» which can have a double meaning, a very positive feature in practice or a tendency to avoid relationship engagement.

Hi Charlie

Would it be him to have a tendency to avoid engagement or me?
Since slippery is the original meaning of "big man", then it should be him.

 

[charly]

Hi Charlie
Would it be him to have a tendency to avoid engagement or me?
Since slippery is the original meaning of "big man", then it should be him.

Hi Olga:

The Changes says nothing about who is. I believe you must be attentive to all the possibilities:

• That both have the tendency, hardly will get the opportunity to match,
• That the man have the tendency: don't look possessive or scary.
• That only you have the tendency: don't be afraid but be careful don't go to pick up a psychopath.
• That none have it: slipperiness may reside in the context or in the nature of the promise.

The last can be:

• May be hard to catch the opportunity when it happens. Say like catching a wet fish with the hand. Be prepared.
• Or it may refer to the nature of the promise, that all will go smooth.

All the best,

Charly (1)
__________________________________
(1) Charly as a diminutive of Charles is, maybe, not good english but in my country is common spanglish.
Ch.

 

[SunnySideUp]

I have been stuck in this remote place throughout the 2020 pandemic. After 7 months since we first went into lockdown, domestic tourism started to boom. I am also itching to go to other places, and suddenly an opportunity showed up to go with an acquaintance to this place I have always wanted to go. We can only travel there by taxi and the driver needs to hang around to bring us back (just 3 or 4 days). Not terribly expensive where I am, but sharing the expenses would make things easier. Problem is yesterday I fell and twisted my ankle, just 3 days prior to the planned trip. The booming domestic tourism is also not encouraging as I am told few people are practicing social distancing. And then the acquaintance is someone that has stood me up a couple of times before. Things never really flowed between us. And just planning for the long weekend hasn't been any different because she inquired about the plans (I am organising things), I message her telling her what's going on and then it took her 7 hours to reply back. Or today, she called me two hours later than the time she said she would call. And when she finally did, she immediately got another call she had to answer and only got back to me 40 minutes later...
Yet, this trip is an opportunity I have been wating for. So I ask Yi:
- Should I go to this place with this acquaintance? --> 11uc
I usually like to get 11, thought I don't remember getting it without lines for the last 7 or 8 years, as this is the first time I read the 11uc thread here.
Upon seeing the answer, I didn't get a good vibe. It felt more like a complete lack of flow (hexagrams uc seem to me not to have much flow or possibilities for change). I read all the posts here and, even though some experiences were quite positive, I decided to follow my gut feeling and cancel the trip as nothing seemed favourable, even if this could be a missed opportunity for flow. It was only when I was writing this that I remembered what a Taiwanese Daoist teacher had told me many years ago: there are 4 hexagrams in the uc form that actually clearly answer yes or no to our questions: in 11uc, Heaven is below Earth, contrary to their expected position, and that means no, even though 11 usually elicits a positive response; in 12uc things are where they should be, Heaven is above Earth, so that means yes; in 63uc, all the lines occupy their proper places (1 yang, 2 yin, 3 yang, 4 yin, 5 yang, 6 yin) so the answer here means yes, whereas in 64 uc all the lines are out of place, which means the answer is no. It was actually a relief to remember the lesson from my Taiwanese teacher because the feeling upon seeing the answer was clear, I shouldn't go.
But then why these four yes/no uc hexagrams evoke different responses in different people? When I studied Feng Shui and learnt how to use a pendulum, I was told that we have to establish our own communication with it: we decide if the pendulum rotating clockwise means yes or no, and same with anti-clockwise. And from this foundation, we develop a communication with it.
I think the same happens whith the Yi Jing. Even though I learnt about the yes/no hexagrams 20 years ago, and, upon coming across the uc threads here I completely forgot about the four yes/no hexagrams, that meaning had been somehow ingrained in my unconscious, even if I had forgotten all about it. Maybe that's why I immediately felt like the answer to my question was no, despite all the positive image associated with hexagram 11.

 

[Olga Super Star]

in 11uc, Heaven is below Earth, contrary to their expected position, and that means no, even though 11 usually elicits a positive response; in 12uc things are where they should be, Heaven is above Earth, so that means yes

Years ago I was told exactly the opposite by a friend of mine, who was studying the I ching deeply at the time. I can't recall any time when 12 UN meant yes, go for it. But I recall that 11 UN has often brought a feeling of there being too much flowing, scary almost, so in the end I didn't follow the flow either. To me 11 means the door is open wide. It's up to you to decide whether you want to go beyond it and see what lies ahead. 12 is more like a door closed.

I will pay attention in the future to see if I can find some order and "yes feeling" in a 12 UN.

 

[moss elk]

Years ago I was told exactly the opposite...

Years ago you were told well.

In 12 you say no to the person/thing
(verbs present= seperate, turn down)
In 11 you say yes.
(verbs present= interact, help & protect)

 

[Olga Super Star]

I got 11 UN for migrating to Iran a couple years ago.

I didn't migrate so I probably shouldn't write this here. Yet I felt at the time I was resonating with that country. It would have meant to leave my evening school halfway through and, with hindsight, I might as well have done it as it was a total waste of time.

I think 11 UN was telling me I could have followed my instinct and go!

 

[Trojina]

It was only when I was writing this that I remembered what a Taiwanese Daoist teacher had told me many years ago: there are 4 hexagrams in the uc form that actually clearly answer yes or no to our questions: in 11uc, Heaven is below Earth, contrary to their expected position, and that means no, even though 11 usually elicits a positive response; in 12uc things are where they should be, Heaven is above Earth, so that means yes; in 63uc, all the lines occupy their proper places (1 yang, 2 yin, 3 yang, 4 yin, 5 yang, 6 yin) so the answer here means yes, whereas in 64 uc all the lines are out of place, which means the answer is no. It was actually a relief to remember the lesson from my Taiwanese teacher because the feeling upon seeing the answer was clear, I shouldn't go.

Anything so deadly formulaic as 'there are 4 hexagrams in the uc form that actually answer clearly yes or no' is suspect as far as I'm concerned. Anything that says ' uc hexagram means 'yes' or 'no' is just not worth considering IMO, it's piffle. The I Ching is not understood by formula in that way. And if you wanted just a yes or no you could toss a coin after all.

But then why these four yes/no uc hexagrams evoke different responses in different people? When I studied Feng Shui and learnt how to use a pendulum, I was told that we have to establish our own communication with it: we decide if the pendulum rotating clockwise means yes or no, and same with anti-clockwise. And from this foundation, we develop a communication with it.

It's not 'paint by numbers' so disregard simplistic nonsense you may have come across.



For some people sometimes 12uc can weigh up to a 'no' in their situation, it depends what they ask. How to interpret 11uc depends on what you ask.


It's nothing like the pendulum, we don't entirely make up our answer with Yi but of course we must bring our subjective awareness with us to interpret as dead formula will take us nowhere.

 

[moss elk]

It's nothing like the pendulum, we don't entirely make up our answer

Bingo.
The language of the pendulum has what,
2 or 3 words?

Yi has 4096 different meanings for you to discover and learn, not make up.
Yi is quite specific, the meanings are already there.

 

[Trojina]

Yi has 4096 different meanings for you to discover and learn, not make up.

There's a lot more than that, the meaning of a line for you will vary according to the question, you can't just learn it by rote if you even learn it at all.

 

[SunnySideUp]

Years ago I was told exactly the opposite by a friend of mine, who was studying the I ching deeply at the time. I can't recall any time when 12 UN meant yes, go for it. But I recall that 11 UN has often brought a feeling of there being too much flowing, scary almost, so in the end I didn't follow the flow either. To me 11 means the door is open wide. It's up to you to decide whether you want to go beyond it and see what lies ahead. 12 is more like a door closed.

I will pay attention in the future to see if I can find some order and "yes feeling" in a 12 UN.

I think that based on our pattern of experiences with the Yi Jing, we get conditioned to interpret the hexagrams and lines in a certain way. That is why I find the forums here so useful in helping us to get in touch with other views, experiences and interpretations.

 

[SunnySideUp]

I think that based on our pattern of experiences with the Yi Jing, we get conditioned to interpret the hexagrams and lines in a certain way. That is why I find the forums here so useful in helping us to get in touch with other views, experiences and interpretations.

Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to take the full Yi Jing course with the Taiwanese teacher I mentioned before, because he was teaching other things and then he died. He had a very traditional way of reading things. I know it's difficult to associate 12uc with a yes answer. But here the meaning is not in the name and images it brings: blockages, stagnation, etc. The yes comes from the fact that everything is in its proper place. It's just a technique of getting a quick yes/no answer, in case you get the four hexagrams in their unchanging form.

 

[Trojina]

You can often deduce a yes or a no from any answer. 'Should I move to Australia ?' 52.1 is quite clear isn't it. But making out that certain answers always mean yes or no is not worthy of consideration whether they are called 'techniques' or not.

 

[moss elk]

Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to take the full Yi Jing course with the Taiwanese teacher I mentioned before, because he was teaching other things and then he died. He had a very traditional way of reading things. I know it's difficult to associate 12uc with a yes answer. But here the meaning is not in the name and images it brings: blockages, stagnation, etc. The yes comes from the fact that everything is in its proper place. It's just a technique of getting a quick yes/no answer, in case you get the four hexagrams in their unchanging form.

This is not consulting Yi.
This is ignoring Yi,
and replacing its meanings with
ones own made up meanings.


Southeast Asia seems to have a recurring theme of practices like this that are only tangentially related to Yi.