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A little help please...........

banjara

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I am fairly new here. Been ghosting about and reading the forum but only just signed up.

The I Ching is fairly new to me and I have been looking to it for guidance over a particularly painful period in my marriage. I have been asking it what I should do to resolve the situation etc and basically keep getting told to be quiet, shut up, find a mediator and all will be well. That is definitely my problem, I poke and prod and back people into a corner to get my answers. Anyway, I followed the advice and left well alone, waiting for my husband to sort out his own problems. I even found a counselor and was overjoyed when my husband asked to meet her too this week.

For background, my husband met another woman 8 months ago and they had a couple of business dates before she headed back to her country. They had hit it off over a shared culture and background and also she confided in him her own abusive marriage which he was completely shocked over. They exchanged email addresses and their relationship developed over time. I discovered the relationship in July although at that point my husband assured me he felt only friendship towards her and he agreed to marriage counselling.

All seemed to go well with the counselling and we moved to another city with fresh hope, his new job and what seemed like a lot to look forward to. Then she contacted him again..........

........Since then she seems to have such a big hold on him and has pursued him relentlessly. He is not entirely blameless of course and has nurtured this relationship until he now believes he loves her.

The last few months have been absolute hell and I have followed advice almost to the letter. But this morning I found out he is planning to meet her this weekend. I had my suspicions and suggested our son and I went with him on his 'business trip'. He gave a downright 'no' in response and was unable to give any valid reasons. Eventually I *sigh* backed him into a corner and he admitted he was meeting her.

He says he has not seen her for 8 months and just wants to see how the land lies between them. He does not know if there is any future for them (his parents are completely against her, he refuses to leave his job to be with her, she is married and lives in another country etc) but he is prepared to meet her and face the consequences. He knows he is wrong and will submit to his fate, living alone even if he discovers there is no future for them. He says he will not come back to me and our young son as he could not have the face to do so. He says he knows he should be punished and accepts it. He just does not know what will happen in the future but wants to see if his online feelings mirror his feelings when he meets her again.

This morning I asked the I Ching "Is my marriage over?". I got Hex 45, changing line 5, transformed hex 16.

I am really not in any state to be trying to interpret this and would really appreciate some help.......
 
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Tohpol

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"Is my marriage over?". I got Hex 45, changing line 5, transformed hex 16.



Hello Banjara,

I am sorry to hear of your suffering on this issue - it all sounds messy and painful. It seems many folks are going through breaks, separations, shake-ups and endings right now, so that new, more balanced and correct relationships with the self or with another partner can eventuate. Never easy.

H.45 is about gathering together, a harvest, an integration and pooling of resources either in oneself or an external group. Implicit in that is the principle of truth, trust and faith that can not only keep the momentum of such a harvest on course but that can allow it to reach it's natural reaping or conclusion, whatever that maybe.

What I think this Hexagram is about for you is keeping your faith and purpose alive and to be patient about the outcome. Consolidate what you have and be strong and especially have faith and trust that things will flow into their natural state - whether that is a break up or a return for your marriage. It may also indicate gaining sufficient support for yourself to see it through, though it seems you've been doing that with advice from others in terms of counselling and coming here for guidance as well. I think you've done all you can at this stage.

Line 5 Again reiterates this idea of being true to yourself and trusting the process when your trust and conviction is wavering. You must maintain trust, faith and your integrity at all costs as this process works itself out. Confidence and strength are needed to get through this. That means following the guidance of the Yi and other voices of wisdom and allowing elements to find their correct places in the outer and inner worlds. That doesn't mean you remain passive but that you pay attention to timing and when to let things take their course.

Remember that the changing Hexagram is 16 which is about enthusiasm and also being prepared. You can get through this. You can do it. Keep that inner flame burning.

Take care,

Topal
 

Trojina

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I am fairly new here. Been ghosting about and reading the forum but only just signed up.

The I Ching is fairly new to me and I have been looking to it for guidance over a particularly painful period in my marriage. I have been asking it what I should do to resolve the situation etc and basically keep getting told to be quiet, shut up, find a mediator and all will be well. That is definitely my problem, I poke and prod and back people into a corner to get my answers. Anyway, I followed the advice and left well alone, waiting for my husband to sort out his own problems. I even found a counselor and was overjoyed when my husband asked to meet her too this week.

For background, my husband met another woman 8 months ago and they had a couple of business dates before she headed back to her country. They had hit it off over a shared culture and background and also she confided in him her own abusive marriage which he was completely shocked over. They exchanged email addresses and their relationship developed over time. I discovered the relationship in July although at that point my husband assured me he felt only friendship towards her and he agreed to marriage counselling.

All seemed to go well with the counselling and we moved to another city with fresh hope, his new job and what seemed like a lot to look forward to. Then she contacted him again..........

........Since then she seems to have such a big hold on him and has pursued him relentlessly. He is not entirely blameless of course and has nurtured this relationship until he now believes he loves her.

The last few months have been absolute hell and I have followed advice almost to the letter. But this morning I found out he is planning to meet her this weekend. I had my suspicions and suggested our son and I went with him on his 'business trip'. He gave a downright 'no' in response and was unable to give any valid reasons. Eventually I *sigh* backed him into a corner and he admitted he was meeting her.

He says he has not seen her for 8 months and just wants to see how the land lies between them. He does not know if there is any future for them (his parents are completely against her, he refuses to leave his job to be with her, she is married and lives in another country etc) but he is prepared to meet her and face the consequences. He knows he is wrong and will submit to his fate, living alone even if he discovers there is no future for them. He says he will not come back to me and our young son as he could not have the face to do so. He says he knows he should be punished and accepts it. He just does not know what will happen in the future but wants to see if his online feelings mirror his feelings when he meets her again.

This morning I asked the I Ching "Is my marriage over?". I got Hex 45, changing line 5, transformed hex 16.

I am really not in any state to be trying to interpret this and would really appreciate some help.......

My take is 45.5 is very much about holding a role or position one can't very comfortably fill.....but one can fill it if you bring your full self and full confidence to it. In mundane terms I find it crops up where someone is in a given role so they have to do something, they are required to fulfill that role but theres no faith or confidence around filling it, theres sort of an empty space.


I feel it possible here it points to your status as his wife. You have that role, noone else does. But right now its not a role you have much faith in, nor does he but actually your answer says nonetheless it is there.


I feel the answers counsels you to muster as much faith and self belief as possible which echoes what Topal said. Gather yourself (45), think about what you want here, not about what he wants or what he or she might do. I think you may be called to fill your place as his wife perhaps more proactively and this starts with you envisioning what it is you want (16) and then having the faith to put it into action.

I was a bit confused over who gave you this advice to wait and 'shut up' and so on and frankly its not whats needed if 45.5 is the advice. I feel waiting and being quiet left your role as his his wife a sort of empty space...so possibly even he isn't quite sure what your role is to him. You need some clarity of role, some faith in yourself to fill it.



Just to illustrate how 45.5 can manifest I've had it often when I was appointed to do a task because it was 'my turn' and so on and I have had no faith in myself to do it . In Hilarys book I think she says of this line that you need to kind of make the task your own, pour yourself into it, make it as you want it. Theres a fair bit of effort required I think.


Its an interesting answer to your question...and i think it asks you another question about how you see your appointed role as his wife...and it points out you have 'position' (the other woman does not) . Its saying theres no faith in this position right now but and I quote here from Hilarys book "This is the moment to gather your willpower and make a positive choice to be here: you need to make it yours"


How you do that is up to you, but I think you need to take more of a firm footing in the whole thing. 45 is about gathering yourself and your resources to defend and strengthen yourself. You are his wife so maybe take your place more as his wife. He could possibly find your silence about it quite confusing. Afterall some other woman strolls in and shows no respect to your marriage and you 'shut up' so it could look like you feel your marriage, your position is not a respect worthy thing.


BTW I'm not suggesting your start shouting and screaming but I really don't think too much more passivity is the way to go. Hold to the main fact that you are his wife and have a role here. If you have the sense of being pushed to one side make your prescence as wife felt, be more sure about it.

I don't think the marriage has to be over if you can gather it back to you. However also examine your goals and aspirations here, what you really want
 
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rosada

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I thought it might be helpful to spell out Wilhelm and how he can be interpreted:

45.5
"If in gathering together one has position,
This brings no blame."

If in the family unit you are the wife,
Then speaking up and objecting and saying what you need is appropriate, is blameless.

"If there are some who are not yet sincerely in the work,"

If your husband in not sincerely dedicated to the family,

"Sublime and enduring perseverance is needed."

Continued faith in your family and your position is needed.

"Then remorse disappears."
:)

This all says to me that by acting with faith that you are the wife and that you have a good family, your husband will come around to see this too.

I'm not clear about what happened this morning. It sounds like your husband was intending to just meet this woman but somehow it escalated to his saying that not only was he meeting her, he was leaving you and his child and never coming back? I think the I Ching is encouraging you that that doesn't necessarily have to happen. I think the I Ching is saying that if you have faith in yourself and your position he will come to see staying with you and the family is his best life path. Perhaps you are being counseled to say something to him like, "I understand this is something you have to do. Go a head and meet her. It is probably better for us that you do for I can not compete with a fantasy. But please, after you meet, stop and think about what you're doing. If you just meet this woman for lunch, it's no big deal. I'm not going to throw you out just cause you met someone for lunch. We don't need to break up our family over this. Then come home. We'll talk. We'll figure out where we're going."

btw, just from what you've said it reads to me like you are a strong sensible woman who is dealing with a husband who doesn't always make good choices and may have frequently had to recognize and admit your ideas are better. He may be feeling with this "abused woman" that here is a situation where he his choices are always the better ones, he can be the knight in shinning armor whereas at home he feels his wife doesn't need him. That's very simplistic on my part I know. I just say it incase it's helpful. Anyway, my point is, I think this is a situation where on an unconscious level he knows you're right but he needs to feel that somehow just once he's right too. So telling him it is a good that he meet her, that this is the smart thing to do, could actually help him align with you. Further, this woman will probably be more likely to leave him alone if she has met him and he breaks it off. Otherwise she could still want to pursue the fantasy.

Best wishes,
rosada
 
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wck6265

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Inner Powers

I Ching did not give you a direct yes or no answer. Instead, it has given you a prescription on how to handle your present state of affair.

Currently you are surrounded by negatives. There is no way you can draw any positive results in such environment. Fortunately, you possess soft power; an ability to take things in stride. I Ching is suggesting that you use this soft power to the fullest. And the way you have put across your pains calmly suggests that you are already doing it right.

To take this power to the next level, try digesting them using your psyche. It means holding them in attention until they dissipate. In other words, use your body rather than brain to confront the onslaught of your negative emotions: sorrows, pains or angers. It can do a much better job that your brain.

This method will not solve your problem, but will give you sufficient strength to hang in there. Whatever happened has created a state of instability that is not sustainable. In other words, the situation will soon readjust itself to restore balances. The best move during this period is: hands off and let nature take its own course.

The bad news is that the energies around you are still very unsettling. I cannot pin point its flow direction. The good news is that it means you still have a chance to influence its final outcome.

You have no control over external events; but you have absolute control over your inner forces. You can rely on your spiritual instinct to flush out the causes of your present predicament. It means using your feeling to scan the past. Hopefully you can learn from those findings and take corrective measures to adjust your own imbalances.

A more positive you will stand a better chance of attracting a more positive outcome.
 
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banjara

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Thank you all so much for your responses. You have certainly helped clear up a few grey areas.

Topal - I am certainly guilty of trying to force situations and need more faith in letting things flow to their natural outcome. I strongly suspect this is not going the way I want it to and therefore I may make matters worse with my frustration. It certainly helps to feel the I Ching is telling me to be strong and have confidence in the outcome, whatever that may be.

Trojan - Your comments on my role as wife struck a chord. It is not a role I have had much confidence in lately. I am British but live in Asia. My husband is a native of this country which is not exactly known for its fair treatment of women. It has been bothering me that in the event of a separation I would be left with nothing and cast aside. It also worries me about child custody as often the fathers are favoured over here. But you are right..... I have 'position' as wife and have contacted the British Deputy High Commission who have given me a list of English speaking lawyers. I have emailed one that deals specifically in divorce, child custody and international relations and hope to meet with him this week. It is not a sign of giving up but preparing myself, arming myself with information.... which is what I think the I Ching was telling me. Oddly, as soon as I sent the email I headed to bed and slept soundly for the first time in ages. Thank you.

Rosada - I am sorry, I wasn't very clear. He was going to meet her for a weekend. I had to admit I felt it a good idea that he does meet her once I read your post as this has been going on for too long now and there seems no solution in sight. I told him the same thing, that I felt it was a good idea to go but that he should know he is free to come home and we will talk about our next move. That there is no judgement from me on either outcome. Thank you for your kind words. It is true he has seen himself as a knight in shining armour right from the beginning. From the first moment I discovered her emails he claimed he was just a friend helping her out through a difficult time and indeed his responses definitely looked like those of a friend as they offered no words of love from his side, only hers. He was honestly appalled at the things she claimed her husband apparently did to her. Yet no matter how many times I told him he was playing with fire he just kept repeating 'she needs me' and said he felt he had been chosen to help her. Now of course, his heart has become involved too.

wck6265 - you definitely have the same idea as me. That I need to back off and let nature take its own course. There is a lot of negative energy flowing around me and I try to counter it with meditation and yoga but even that seems to have little effect these days. I am waiting on a job offer that has dropped in my lap which offers huge potential for growth. All I need to finalise this is a meeting with the MD. Luckily for me that keeps being put back as she is out of state and I can't help feeling it is because I am not ready to present a positive me. My husband is also throwing up events of the past 9 years and blaming me for a lot of them, becoming quite bitter. This has stunned me and caused me to think we have each lived a different marriage. I agree, certain events in our past should have been handled differently but I have faced these and made peace with them. Yet he appears stuck there and not able to let go, prefering to turn love into hate instead. I would like to help him but he seems reluctant.


I have been trying to deal with this on my own and only confided in one girlfriend here. Yet this weekend I called a few other girlfriends and confided in them too. I was overwhelmed by their support and genuine concern for me. They have each given me some very valuable advice and I feel as though a fog has lifted slightly.

I am also very grateful to each of you above that has taken the time out to advise me and give me a little direction. Thank you :)
 

ginnie

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My husband is a native of this country which is not exactly known for its fair treatment of women. It has been bothering me that in the event of a separation I would be left with nothing and cast aside. ... My husband is also throwing up events of the past 9 years and blaming me for a lot of them, becoming quite bitter. This has stunned me and caused me to think we have each lived a different marriage.

So painful, but it's better all this has come out into the light. I don't think it is unusual to have this experience.

I read 45.5 as meaning that the situation is still very foggy. "Husband" is just an empty title to you right now. He has lost a great deal of credibility with you, and he'll need to win you back.

Actually, you are keeping watch over his every move and don't trust him farther than you could pick him up and throw him. Pardon my plain English.

I think the key is in the relating hexagram. It has so many positive meanings that I believe there is still hope for your marriage.

It was as if, even as you cast your hexagram, you had groaned inwardly or even sighed out loud. It was as if a chord was struck in the Universe, and the I Ching told you, in my opinion, that you don't have to trust him until he starts behaving more like your husband in reality -- not just a "husband" as an empty title.
 

banjara

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It is very interesting you said that Ginnie. I certainly don't trust him any further than I could throw him right now. Also, I don't see the man standing before me as the man I married and therefore he is not my "husband". It is like I am dealing with 2 different people and I am still reeling from shock that this happened so quickly. I recently found a birthday card he sent me last April that he had written on with such declarations of love and tenderness. But then I find he was expressing the same type of feelings just 2 months later to this other woman. How he has managed to transfer love from one to another in such a short span of time is beyond me and my counsellor.

Thank you for your input. Even now I would like to think there was hope in the relating hexagram but I have since heard on the grapevine he is looking for a lawyer.
 

banjara

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I asked the question "What else can I do to save my marriage?" and got 13 unchanging.....?

All signs point to this marriage being over. Am I just being advised to keep things as friendly as possible?
 

Trojina

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It is very interesting you said that Ginnie. I certainly don't trust him any further than I could throw him right now. Also, I don't see the man standing before me as the man I married and therefore he is not my "husband". It is like I am dealing with 2 different people and I am still reeling from shock that this happened so quickly. I recently found a birthday card he sent me last April that he had written on with such declarations of love and tenderness. But then I find he was expressing the same type of feelings just 2 months later to this other woman. How he has managed to transfer love from one to another in such a short span of time is beyond me and my counsellor.

Thank you for your input. Even now I would like to think there was hope in the relating hexagram but I have since heard on the grapevine he is looking for a lawyer.

I asked the question "What else can I do to save my marriage?" and got 13 unchanging.....?

All signs point to this marriage being over. Am I just being advised to keep things as friendly as possible?

It sounds to me like you are the grown up here. I'm going on my own impressions here but you ask how can he say those things to her he said to you only a few months earlier....answer is hes emotionally immature. If you want to keep him I'd guess thats good news because you probably have the edge on him, in termsof being one step ahead of him you being an adult and him a child (in this respect anyway). I think he may just as easily go off her as he suddenly was attracted to her...meanwhile i see you could be like a mother sitting waitng patiently for her child to return from playing with a new toy. Hes transparent to you, you can probably look at him after a while and see what he'll do next...andif he does have a relationship with her probably after a while he'll go off her and return to you or someone else.

However as I said before the difference is he did marry you.


I saw some TV drama the other day where a young woman was asking an older woman why on earth she put up with her husband openly going with other women. The answer the older woman gave was simply 'I loved him'. She knew what he was like and she made her choice...and whats more she knew he'd always return to her. But she was empowered i think by making a conscious choice...deciding if she wanted to be with a man like this or not...she decided she did and turned a blind eye to his affairs (however not sure if any one happily does that in real life !)


My opinion from what you have said, and in part from the readings is your marriage does not have to be over if you don't want it to be. I doubt he knows what he wants, so you are the stable factor here, you are the grown up. So its your decision if you are going to stay with this man who is acting this way...or not.

Not sure what 13 is advising you here. i think you could be right and its just asking you to see this in a broad humanitarian kind of a way, which actually you have been doing. I mean some wives would shred his clothes up or something but you obviously have a great deal of emotional control and maturity


I don't know exactly why but i still feel in the end you call the shots here...even if you think you don't.

You know with this kind of pattern i think he may feel just fine as long as he knows you are still there for him...but the moment you show signs of moving on and leaving him behind I wouldn't be suprised if he comes running back. This is the child in all of us. Little kids are happy to be daring and adventurous as long as they know mum hasn't forgotten them....er but the moment they realise shes walking off they have meltdown and come running. i think we retain that emotional dynamic sometimes. Not that you are like his mum...but as the woman hes chosen to invest in by marrying I imagine you must on some level offer him emotional security and hence inevitably link in to his nurturing needs from women...his mum being his first love


However I am just going on impressions, making observations from patterns i have seen people play out but they are my thoughts for what they are worth ....

and talking of mothers its a bit off topic but it may be worth considering comparing him to your father...in your own mind. I mean perhaps it may throw some light on the dynamic...maybe not
 
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ginnie

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Hexagram 13 unchanging I think is a step in a person's development, after they have realized how much of their mind has been occupied by the husband / lover / boyfriend.

Does an intelligent woman really want her whole life eaten up with worries and doubts about the straying or "impossible" husband? He's not only unfaithful; my sense of it is that he's very irritating on top of that.

So I think the I Ching is advising Banjara to take herself outside her home.

Some of us feel a lot more comfortable at home, to the extent that we may even feel like outsiders in the city where we live.

Yi is saying you need to become more committed to your community. It's time to do something new!
 

banjara

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Trojan - Your word, as always, is worth its weight, thank you. And I am wondering if you were that fly buzzing around my counsellor's office when she said he was emotionally immature ;) I think the key element is the fact that I am the wife and therefore I have rights. I didn't think I had but I have since spoken to a lawyer that tells me differently. That has had a huge impact on how I see things now. The only question I have left is which road to take..........
 

banjara

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Ginnie - I think the change in a person's development seems quite spot on. I am beginning to see more and more how much of my efforts I have wasted on him and to no effect. This guy is doggedly determined to follow his path and nothing anyone says to him has any effect. Yes, it is time to do something new. Just what?
 

banjara

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Last night he asked for a divorce........

I was expecting it and yet it still shook me up. I don't want to leave this country that has been my home for the last 10 years and yet my visa status may well be revoked and I must return to the UK a divorced 44 yr old mother of an 8 yr old with no job, money, career or home. That I am pissed with him right now is an understatement. He brought us to this for no apparent reason and he even admitted last night he is not even sure, deep in his heart, if it will work out between them! We have had problems in our marriage like any other couple but they were not insurmountable. It appears to me he prefers to turn and run rather than confront them. Now this latest development, it is like he is a kid with a new toy and discards his previous favourite one in favour of the new one.

I told him that as I had not done anything wrong I refused to file for divorce so asked him what grounds he was giving to divorce me...... He couldn't answer. I asked him had he realised the long term ramifications of this and he couldn't answer. His only response seemed to be throwing money at me to make the 'problem' go away. He seems to think divorce is like marriage, a day at the courthouse, sign some papers, throw some money away et voila. Head on to new life. I asked him how he was going to be able to support 2 households.... he had no answer. I asked about maintenance....... he had no answer, in fact he seemed surprised I would need maintenance for so long. I asked him what his firm would think when they find out he has broken up 2 marriages for his own selfish desires and that he was prepared to throw his wife and son under the bus simply because he had found someone else....... he seemed to think as it was his private life it should not be any of their concern.

I simply don't know what to think any more. The man I married seems to be no longer in sight, I don't know who this poor specimen is. And yet my love is still there for the first one. Do I hold out in hope he will resurface in time, once his affair falls apart? Or do I cut my losses and run?

So I asked the question "Do I really want to divorce my husband?"

Hexagram 44, line 5, changing to 50......
 

Trojina

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Last night he asked for a divorce........

I was expecting it and yet it still shook me up. I don't want to leave this country that has been my home for the last 10 years and yet my visa status may well be revoked and I must return to the UK a divorced 44 yr old mother of an 8 yr old with no job, money, career or home. That I am pissed with him right now is an understatement. He brought us to this for no apparent reason and he even admitted last night he is not even sure, deep in his heart, if it will work out between them! We have had problems in our marriage like any other couple but they were not insurmountable. It appears to me he prefers to turn and run rather than confront them. Now this latest development, it is like he is a kid with a new toy and discards his previous favourite one in favour of the new one.

I told him that as I had not done anything wrong I refused to file for divorce so asked him what grounds he was giving to divorce me...... He couldn't answer. I asked him had he realised the long term ramifications of this and he couldn't answer. His only response seemed to be throwing money at me to make the 'problem' go away. He seems to think divorce is like marriage, a day at the courthouse, sign some papers, throw some money away et voila. Head on to new life. I asked him how he was going to be able to support 2 households.... he had no answer. I asked about maintenance....... he had no answer, in fact he seemed surprised I would need maintenance for so long. I asked him what his firm would think when they find out he has broken up 2 marriages for his own selfish desires and that he was prepared to throw his wife and son under the bus simply because he had found someone else....... he seemed to think as it was his private life it should not be any of their concern.

I simply don't know what to think any more. The man I married seems to be no longer in sight, I don't know who this poor specimen is. And yet my love is still there for the first one. Do I hold out in hope he will resurface in time, once his affair falls apart? Or do I cut my losses and run?

So I asked the question "Do I really want to divorce my husband?"

Hexagram 44, line 5, changing to 50......

This is crazy isn't it...I mean if he seriously wanted a divorce I think he might put a bit more time into the practicalities for you and your child since that would make the whole thing smoother for him. Its just no way to treat you.

Last April he was declaring his love in a card to you and now 9 months later he's heading off with a woman who hes not sure about. Its sounds odd...maybe hes having some kind of mental blip here.

Anyway with this kind of erratic behaviour he just seems to me to be a prime candidate for doing a big turnabout somewhere down the line begging you to get back with him.

Hmm but thats just me guessing you can't rely on him coming back, mental blip over, normal life restored. And anyway I guess after this you just won't really be able to trust him again.

But its a 10 year marriage right ? Not just a flash in the pan. You know all I've ever read in books and magazines, and observed in life is that mostly in these type of scenarios where the man suddenly seems to change overnight and go chasing a new toy is that the story is 6 months later he starts wishing he was back with his wife....only by this time the wife has moved on and doesn't want him back...and they kind of become friends. I don't know exactly where i got that story from but its almost archetypal...but i digress :eek: what about the 44.5 ?


Hey 44.5 is a controversial line. If you look in the hexagram index, at top right of screen under 'search' you may see lots of threads and lots of 'lively' discussion on 44 and 44.5

To tell the truth i don't really know what to think of 44.5. Right now I see it possibly as something that you thought you wanted falling easily in to your lap, but it spoils easily and you aren't so sure you want it afterall, which can be good fortune becasue it frees yopu up with no regrets. You asked "do i really want to divorce my husband' (which i think is a brilliant question by the way) but i have trouble appplying 44.5 to the question. All I can see it as is that in time he has a turn about, he comes back but I appreciate you can't really judge what to do on that basis.


I really hope some others can help here
 

Tohpol

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Hmmm.

Well, the question was: "Do I really want to divorce my husband?"

44.5 also talks about keeping something precious inside yourself rather like something growing in the womb that has to be protected because it is a gift. (Or perhaps a blessing in disguise?) That doesn't mean to say that you should give your husband a divorce or indeed, that you shouldn't, it just means that what is being offered here is a gift in vitro - a possibility that is pregnant with potential; (sorry for the illiteration there lol) a powerful learning experience; a gift that comes "falling from heaven" but not perhaps how you expected to manifest. So, what happens here on in is likely to offer you and your husband - separate or together - new and huge opportunities to grow that could be very beneficial in the long run.

So, going back to your question, the Yi MIGHT be saying that although you do not want a divorce perhaps, due to the obvious loss, disappointment, upheavals and changes that would ensue, it is actually a gift in disguise that should be positively embraced...

That's another take on it. Disclaimer flashing neon of course....
 

rosada

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This is an I Ching website and so of course we try to solve these riddles in terms of the I Ching. However, there are some things going on astrologically that might be helpful to consider.
Now until mid March the planet Uranus is at the very last degrees of the sign Pisces, the last sign of the whole zodiac. This indicates many many situations will conclude during this time on a "Uranus note." That is, Uranus rules the sign Aquarius, the sign of individual freedom and independence. Leo, the sign opposite, is the sign of the king with loyal subjects. This means there is a strong Aquarian/Uranus influence manifesting in the world today, with many events concluding with a demonstration of individual free will - including rebellion to any commitment where the person feels they must surrender their will out of loyalty to a king - or previous commitment.
Thus with Uranus at the very last degrees of Pisces just now the tendency is for all of us in all our life paths to find that various agreements we've made in the past but which we no longer feel an inner attachment to, are proving unstable. Whether it's on the world scene where we find Iraq trying to form their own independent government but then finding the individual members unable to reach agreement - wanting to be independent from each other! - or in marriages where partners who swore eternal love not a year ago now are saying "I gotta be me, I gotta be free!" or in our own personal lives where we find even promises we made to ourselves we no longer care to keep, we are all experiencing wake up calls to rethink what we're committed to.
We are finding we need to Re-Negotiate in the face of change, and we most of us don't know - and need to learn - how to do that.

To apply this insight to the current question, I would first of all consider that Uranus is Pisces means any agreements made will probably shoot off in unexpected directions. The woman your husband is intending to meet may even break the date! So I think it's very wise to get sound legal counsel and to get everything in writing. It also would probably be good to try to slow everything down until mid March. Uranus will leave Pisces then, after which it will go into Aries when there will still be the strong incentive to act independently but perhaps with not such a wild impulse to toss everything aside no matter what the cost.

On the other hand, you maybe able to get your husband to agree to terms now that are more in your favor while Uranus is urging him to do whatever he wants without thoughts of tomorrow. Of course, even if he agrees to such terms, with this line up of planets he may not fulfill them.

Bottom line, from an astrological point of view this is a time to complete, simplify or re-negotiate commitments knowing we are all going to be wanting to be at liberty to follow the strong inner promptings coming with Uranus entering into Aries in March.

rosada
 
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ginnie

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That's a beautiful post on the astrological climate affecting us all, Rosada.

Banjara, I think your husband is still stuck on you and you're still stuck on him. Your marriage is far from over ... and maybe it will transform into a relationship that is quite different in the future from how it seems right now. It has that potential.

I do think you might go out and speak with other people as Yi suggested in giving you hexagram 13. You might be surprised to find that: (1) everybody is thinking of leaving their job, even though they have no other money; (2) everybody is thinking of leaving their marriage, even though that does not in many cases make any sense; and (3) everybody is fed up and just wants to do what they want to do, like your husband.
 

wck6265

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Work in Progress

The message has been very consistent: Nature has already taken over charting your next course of actions. If this is indeed correct, it does not really matter what he or you want. The way forward is already fixed with all the others blocked. You don’t need to take my words seriously; as you will feel its presence and experience its ways soon enough.

There are 3 potential outcomes that could emerge from the chaos.

1.Stay Married: A series of unexpected events will crop up; forcing both of you to stay together because of needs. This is a path of reconciliation; meaning that there are still values left in the marriage that are worth saving. A common ground will emerge for both of you to stay on to work on the marriage.

2.Divorced: A series of opportunities will pop up; opening doors for you to move positively forward. This is a path that will lead you to a greener pasture. There is a better life waiting for you just around the corner.

3.Tragic Ending. The negatives will multiply; until everything collapses and tragic ending becomes inevitable.

But the strange thing is that the energies are still not settling down up till now; signifying that the final outcome is still at work-in-progress stage. It means that you still have a chance to influence the final outcome basing on what is the real need deep in your heart.

Basing on the above observation, the previous set of advises issued by I Ching has become even more relevant at this stage. They are designed to let you gain sufficient strength to rise above the traumas; so that you can differential between the go and stop signals. They can also help you to survive the traumas free of emotional scars and negative karmic effects that could haunt you for life.

1.Panadol Treatment: It is okay to seek for any form of temporary reliefs to ease your pains; but never indulge in any of them. They will numb your senses and cover up the real cause of your pains.

2.Body Therapy: The body therapy is about creating a permanent escape channel for you to stay above your pains. It involves building a new bodily rhythm or frequency.

It is perfectly fine to use yoga or meditation as your channel; but the emphasis is on building up the rhythm and intensity over a series of practice sessions. In other words, practice daily and on a fixed schedule for a period of time.

The gain or loss of one single session is not important. It is the regularity that builds up the rhythm that matters.

3.Karma Balancing: Scanning your past does not mean apportioning blames, pinpointing rights and wrongs or seeking excuses. As such making peace with oneself will not square off the karmic effects.

Karmic effect is a pattern of occurrences that keep repeating itself in every aspect of your life. If you can map out the causes and effects of all incidents that lead to your present predicament, you can then flush out the karmic effects that are presently distorting your life.

Removing them is the only way to regain your balances; and hopefully the balances of your marriage.
 

banjara

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*long exhale*

So much to think about. I am very grateful to everyone for sharing their wealth of knowledge and insight.

Trojan – I did indeed look at other threads relating to 44.5 and got some very useful thoughts to consider. Thank you for that.

Rosada – That was indeed a beautiful post about current astrological events and it certainly explains a lot of things. I myself have felt like running for the hills, taking what he was offering me and just cutting my losses. It certainly seems very inviting but something was stopping me from doing so. God knows I have enough reason to end our marriage and I think most wives would have thrown the book at him a long time ago. It just doesn’t feel right………

Topal – I had considered the marriage itself was the gift, something to be protected and nurtured. A gift from the Gods; which is what I had always believed it to be. Events in my life 12, 10 and 9 years ago had always convinced me we were meant to be together. But this current situation has deeply shaken my faith in this now and I am completely lost. I can see your point of view now as well.

Ginnie – These are definitely unsettling times for everyone from what I can see. With regards to my husband, he is certainly lost. Only the morning after asking for a divorce he is telling me how we can take our son’s new governess out with us when we go out together as a family! What family?! He is planning on splitting it up!

Wck6265 – I found a post of yours while surfing hexagram 44.5 threads that was very interesting. In fact I copied it to a word document and read it often. It speaks of the fisherman with no hook. I would like to know more about the Karmic Balancing though as this is quite new to me.

Over the past couple of days I have gathered information and know my husband has no grounds to divorce me, I have done nothing wrong. What can he say…….nagging? lol

I do not wish to leave this country. I have built my life here for the last 10 years and don’t intend to give up my home, life, family etc and head to the UK with nothing.

If I were to tell you the bizarre incidents leading to my recent trip to UK which includes pigeons I fear you would have me committed. lol Yet that trip proved to me that returning to the UK was not an option

I have been offered a golden opportunity in terms of a job here which is tailor made for me. It offers such potential for personal growth I am still pinching myself. Another reason not to leave my current home.

I have since found out my visa will indeed need to be surrendered in event of divorce. This means I would have to return to the UK, something I do not want to do.

So it looks like stalemate for the moment unless another door opens up for us to go our separate ways. This has given me some breathing space to turn around and look at his relationship with this woman and I find I no longer fear it as much. It is not built on any solid foundation at all, although it is definitely a very strong bond of friendship. I cannot see any reason yet why it would end as they both seem to need each other and seem very deeply connected at the moment.

I can see a very bright and beautiful future for myself here that is filled with opportunities for growth and a radical change in my life from the way it is now. I felt that way when we first moved to this city and I still feel it now. All that is different is this relationship my husband has formed with this other woman when she re-entered his life after we arrived here. He is definitely not the man I married any more and has not been for some months. There is an incredible amount of tension between us (durr) that clouds my judgement and makes me think we could not move past this. Certainly my girlfriends think I am crazy for even considering it! It would certainly be easier to walk away as even the most basic of conversation between us seems like a Herculean task.

Being a typical Taurean (as is my husband) I can definitely be accused of being obstinate and it bothers me I may be hanging on to something that is not meant to be rather than reach out for my future. And yet the future cannot be mine without the visa, a condition of my marriage……….
 

ginnie

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If you can map out the causes and effects of all incidents that lead to your present predicament, you can then flush out the karmic effects that are presently distorting your life.

Maybe Banjara was the oldest sister in her family and she had a little brother. Maybe she will always need a little brother to make her life feel complete.

I have found that marriages between the mature, serious person and someone who is foolish or immature are the most long-lasting. Not just because opposites attract, but also because the mature one feels very needed and the immature one can become very fondly devoted. :)

For the chaotic one, perhaps it's a lucky relationship, because they found someone who could put up with them. Not many women could tolerate a guy like that. But for the more organized, serious woman, it can be very draining to have a husband like this.

It's just becomes a question of what you can tolerate, Banjara, .. .. and forgive.

You don't see it right now, but perhaps your husband possesses some strengths that are not the same as your strengths but which you can come to appreciate nevertheless.
 
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ginnie

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Only the morning after asking for a divorce he is telling me how we can take our son’s new governess out with us when we go out together as a family! What family?! He is planning on splitting it up!

Your husband's words don't make sense in a rational way. Perhaps he is suffering from an undiagnosed case of ADD -- Attention Deficit Disorder. Such adults have no concept of the future, never plan for it, and say inconsistent things about it. They have no interest in everyday, mundane tasks, like paying the bills and balancing the checkbook. They would rather seek out what is entertaining and fun for themselves alone, often without any regard whatsoever for what's going on with other family members. They can't help it. Their behavior is said to be the result of real changes in the brain, often from a bad head injury they suffered as children ....

With a husband like this, you'll need to find people you can rely on, because your husband is off in a fantasy world. That's another reason Yi gave you hexagram 13. You need to detach yourself from ruminating about this domestic situation and go out into the world to meet more responsible people.

Being a typical Taurean (as is my husband) I can definitely be accused of being obstinate

Two Taureans. Our astrological friends might enjoy sharing their comments and insights ..... :)
 

banjara

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Ginnie - I am indeed the oldest sister, with 2 younger brothers. ;)


So many developments this week and surprises too. I am completely at a loss what to think and am unable to feel any flow direction. I am so convinced on one hand that all is not lost and we can work our way through it, then a moment later I feel it is hopeless and I should just cut my losses and run. I feel now I have the power to influence an outcome and yet am so scared I will make the wrong choice and create chaos in my life when there promises to be so much happiness and fulfillment. I wish there were some easy answers to this.

So I asked the I Ching "What outcome can I expect if I remain married to R*****?" and received hexagram 10, changing line 3..... relating hexagram 1.

I see the significance of 10 meaning to tread carefully and not waken a sleeping tiger. To be courteous and polite, avoiding pitfalls until I am in a position to move forward.

With Hex 1 I feel it indicates I have the power to influence the outcome by being persistent, untiring etc.


Any thoughts............?
 

Trojina

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Ginnie - I am indeed the oldest sister, with 2 younger brothers. ;)


So many developments this week and surprises too. I am completely at a loss what to think and am unable to feel any flow direction. I am so convinced on one hand that all is not lost and we can work our way through it, then a moment later I feel it is hopeless and I should just cut my losses and run. I feel now I have the power to influence an outcome and yet am so scared I will make the wrong choice and create chaos in my life when there promises to be so much happiness and fulfillment. I wish there were some easy answers to this.

So I asked the I Ching "What outcome can I expect if I remain married to R*****?" and received hexagram 10, changing line 3..... relating hexagram 1.

I see the significance of 10 meaning to tread carefully and not waken a sleeping tiger. To be courteous and polite, avoiding pitfalls until I am in a position to move forward.

With Hex 1 I feel it indicates I have the power to influence the outcome by being persistent, untiring etc.


Any thoughts............?

Generally one is in danger of overstepping the mark in 10.3. Inmy expereince you do get bitten if go on with an idea after getting 10.3

All along i have said i didn't feel the marriage had to be over, and i still think that...because almost as sure as eggs is eggs your husband, being this unpredictable and unconstant could as easily flip back to you as he flipped away from you BUT is this good for your happiness in the end ? 10.3 doesn't seem to point to that. 10.3 suggests you ask too much of yourself to happily continue this marriage.

Theres a difference here between what you currently want and what will make you happy and fulfilled long term. i think some of the answers have indicated the want that you have now to have him back may be possible....but then it also says that wouldn't be such a good move.

Hmm i don't think i either can or should make predictions on your answers...in the end i feel sure you will do the right thing, but you can't make your mind up overnight.


Anyway 10.3 is quite a warning. Don't expect more of yourself than you give, don't place too much trust in a tiger that will likey bite. Go careful

On just a common sense level, Yi aside, its a question of whether after all this will you ever trust him again !!
 
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ginnie

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With the relating hexagram of one, you seemed to be asking your question from a place of doubt and insecurity. You were wondering if you had the capacity to put up with this man and this marriage any longer.

And you were thinking of sticking with it because he needs you. Well, there's no doubt he needs someone or something. He's so inconsistent he's making you that way, too. But that's not a good enough reason and that's not a strong enough bridge to keep the marriage together.

Maybe you can in some ways prompt him to learn how to be more independent and stop telling you everything about his love life as if you were his big sister. And you could create some healthy space by going out of your home and making some new acquaintances and friends. Find a community group of some kind. There's got to be something like that going on outside your home to get involved in.

You are lacking the sense of harmony in your marriage. Please go outside of your home and find some people you can feel comfortable before your husband drives you out of your mind.

Your mental health is more important than your husband. Your mental health is more important than the institution of marriage.

You have to put your mental health first, Banjara, as a higher priority than your husband.

Your husband cannot be the most important thing in your life. Do not make that mistake! :):bows::)
 

banjara

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Thank you Ginne and Trojan. I really appreciate your help.


In an update........ my husband has been called to see his father this weekend. At first he asked me if I would go with him and I refused. Then he asked me again this morning. I declined at first, telling him although I welcomed the opportunity to sit down with his parents and talk about our marriage, I did not want the focus to be his affair which I see as a symptom of what is wrong between us and not the actual cause. Then I called his mother and asked her advice. She seems to think it a good idea I go and we all sit down together and talk. His father agreed.

I am not sure if I am walking into the tiger's den as it were and so I asked "Am I doing the right thing in going to meet them?"

I got hexagram 18 which speaks of 'fruitful to cross the great river'. Would this be making the journey into the unknown?

It also speaks of being time to examine old patterns, seek out their source and give due honour and attention. This is as wck6265 told me earlier...... to scan my past and identify repeat occurrences that have brought me to this present situation. Then flush out the karmic events to restore balance. I wish I knew a little more about how to go about that.


But in the meantime, hex 18 looks like going to meet his parents is the right thing to do, doesn't it?

*chews lip*
 

Trojina

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:confused: what does it have to do with his parents ? Why does he think it a good idea to discuss your marriage in front of them ? What purpose would that serve ?
 

banjara

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Although I am British, I live in Asia. My husband is a national of the country we live in. Generally speaking whenever there is a problem in the family the whole unit works together to find a solution.

In the West I would hate the idea of that kind of intrusion and I can completely understand your confusion....lol But it is different here and often this kind of family support can help.

It was his father that asked him to come see him about the situation.
 

ginnie

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Generally speaking whenever there is a problem in the family the whole unit works together to find a solution.

Good luck, Banjara. I know that the family structure is like this in Asia. Perhaps there is so much to be 'fixed' it'll be helpful to have the assistance of senior family members.
 

banjara

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Good luck, Banjara. I know that the family structure is like this in Asia. Perhaps there is so much to be 'fixed' it'll be helpful to have the assistance of senior family members.


Thank you Ginnie. It was certainly a very strained weekend but had a positive outcome, at least from my side.
 

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